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Author Topic: untitled -- feedback appreciated :)
HSO
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Hi everyone... just offering up the first 13 for valuable feedback, opinions, and criticism. No idea how long it will be... Thanks in advance. Btw, I'm new here, so if I'm not doing something right on these boards, please tell me so I can avoid it in the future.

Cheers!

HSO

***

The queue was long, moving far too slow, and completely unbearable. What made it so unbearable to Lance Corporal Zed Druthers wasn’t because it was long or advancing slower than snail’s pace, but because as usual idiots surrounded him. It was something that couldn’t be avoided when you were required to line up alphabetically for everything. Today, like everyday for the past two weeks, it was Billy Draff in front of him and Nick Dutchman behind him; two mouthy blokes who hated all things military and wanted everyone to know how they felt. Even worse: both were conspiracy nuts that believed some alien shadow government was controlling everything and that they were the only ones who knew the truth – the only ones here in this temporary holding unit anyway. Stuck in the middle of these two babbling fools was excruciating – especially on this day when he was receiving his orders and would at last find out if he’d been accepted into the Program. Two weeks of incessant banter and conspiratorial nonsense was enough and what Zed really wanted to do at this moment was knock their heads together until they fell into an unconscious heap on the cold, highly polished linoleum deck.

***


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MaryRobinette
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Welcome HSO. I'll try to be gentle since it's your first time. Next time, let us know the genre. I'm guessing SF, but it helps me know what lens to read with if you let us know up front.

Can you work your character's name in differently? Since we're in his POV, I don't think he would think of himself as Lance Corporal Zed Druthers. It has the ring of Flash Gordon. Which can be fun, but is out of keeping with the rest of the piece. Maybe, "What made it so unbearable wasn’t that it was long or advancing slower than snail’s pace, but because, as usual, idiots surrounded Zed." ... "Today, like everyday for the past two weeks, the last name Druthers landed him between Billy Draff and Nick Dutchman; two mouthy blokes who hated all things military and wanted everyone to know how they felt. It didn't matter that he was a Lance Corporal and they were..."

You get the idea. Just a little more grace in working it into the story.

"the cold, highly polished linoleum deck"
I can pretty much guarantee, that it's not linoleum on a space ship or space station, which is where I'm imagining this to take place. Linoleum is a flooring product made with linseed oil. Try tile, vinyl or steel as a nice generic alternatives.

You could use more commas to help us figure out where clauses are. Since you are in London, you might pick up a copy of Eats shoots and Leaves. It's an excellent guide to using punctuation, and very, very funny.

Best of luck.
Mary


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HSO
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Thanks, Mary, and just what I was looking for... It didn't feel right and I couldn't work out exactly what was bothering me about it.

It is SF, but it takes place on good ol'Earth at a typical military base -- well maybe not so typical.

I knew the floor reference was off; I've been in the military and I'm certain the floors weren't made of linoleum. I can only remember that I stripped, waxed, and buffed them into a virtual mirrors at least once a week for 4 years.

The Flash Gordon reference scares me... must fix that! And I really liked how you reworked those sentences. Thanks for the ideas.

Will use better punctuation -- no excuses.


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djvdakota
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Welcome!

I agree with Mary--though I don't know how she can manage to think well today. I know I can't.

Anyway, feel free to ignore my comments if they sound confused. I probably am and just don't realize it. Root canals are so much fun.

I thought you did a nice job of introducing me to the POV character. I get a feel for his attitudes, personality, even his physique, from these few lines.

I wonder if it wouldn't better served to break the paragraph up a bit, although I couldn't tell you where without asking you to do a little sentence restructuring. Each sentence leads so nicely into the next that there isn't anyplace where it could be done easily, but the paragraph, for me, is a bit of a barrier. MAYBE at 'Stuck in the middle...'


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Christine
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The only thing I would add to what Mary said is that I think you should consider breaking thie paragraph up a little. The length of it iseemed to go on as long as the queu and you don't want to wear me out in the first paragraph.

Oh, and I didn't like this sentence : "What made it so unbearable to Lance Corporal Zed Druthers wasn’t because it was long or advancing slower than snail’s pace, but because as usual idiots surrounded him. "

I found it to be repetitive. I think you could probably find a way to sum it up much more neatly....I bet it could be half as long and twice as punchy.


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djvdakota
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The floors you would have polished in the military would have been industrial grade vinyl tile--like they use on the floors of ALL grocery stores and hospitals. And that would sound great in the story--

'...into an unconscious heap on the cold, highly polished, industrial grade vinyl tile beneath their feet.'


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Survivor
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Usually the floors were some kind of linoleum tile (like in a supermarket or a high school).

The SFyness is because the guy is named "Lance Corporal Zed". Druthers...is rather an amusing last name, given this opening.

You should probably put a descriptor in front of "queue" so we know what they're doing (and get an idea of where they are). Is it the mess hall, or are they doing laundry, or what?

Also, if these are Marines, just say so at some point (you can use whatever affectionate little term you like). That will contribute to the flavor a lot without needing more than one word.

The term "temporary holding unit" doesn't sound right. It makes it sound like their in a prison of some kind. Change "unit" to the paper designation of their unit, company/battalion/whatnot. And give it a name that makes it clear what the criteria for inclusion in that unit are. For instance, "Bravo Company of the Initial Orientation Battalion" (okay, probably you don't want to use that instance). If this guy is on the ball (going for the Program and all), he'll probably know his actual unit designation. I have to admit, I never really bothered myself about what any of those units were really named.

Anyway, I agree with DJ that the POV intro works well. I got a strong feel for Zed's personality and all that. But the surroundings don't have a strong feel (or really any feel--except that we know the flooring is that generic institutional tile).


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djvdakota
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DJ? It took me a minute to realize you were talking about me!! You see, DJ is my hubby. Interesting that it's the first time anyone's called me DJ in the forum.

But Survivor gave the term that's correct for the tile you refer to--institutional tile. Use that.


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MaryRobinette
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Dakota! You had a root canal? Oh you poor thing. I'm considering myself incredibally lucky, I had a miracle doctor do my wisdom teeth. I actually have no pain. I keep feeling like something must be terribly wrong. Feel better soon.

HSO it was the word "deck" that made me think it was on a ship or space station.

[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited June 23, 2004).]


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HSO
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Wow, thanks for all the input! I'm rather impressed with the questions raised and the advice given. I'm certain it'll do wonders to give life and color to this opening and to the whole story -- a tale that's been tooling around in my head for 9 years.

And that's the trouble, actually. I'm literally bursting to get it out that I don't slow down when I'm writing it to put in those details. What you've read is the very first draft; punctuation and proper detail be damned, and (carelessly?) left for the editing/rewriting process.

Back to the opening:

I agree that breaking it up a bit with an extra paragraph or two might make it easier to read. It's quite a chunk of text to digest.

The reason for the queue is explained in the subsequent paragraph, but I think I've got a better way to put it now, including the new paragraph breaks. So thank you! (I'm just now realizing there's an infinite amount of ways to write this particular scene and still retain the idea of it -- just better!)

The tile information is most helpful, too. Okay, I need to write it again. Now! I'll repost it in this topic once I'm happier with it. Who knows, maybe I'll have the title worked out, too. :P

HSO


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HSO
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Okay... maybe this is more interesting. Zed's introduction and development is slower than before, but keep in mind the first draft posted earlier and you'll know what's coming next... his personality hasn't changed.

I really liked Mary's advice, so I've "borrowed" that... I hope it's okay -- and if it's not, I've got a backup ready. Paragraph breaks added. And Survivor, I've heeded your advice as well. I neglected to comment in my previous post that I appreciated your feedback quite a bit. I wanted to say that "temporary holding unit" was a placeholder until I could come up w/ something... Also, Zed's surname was very deliberate -- I'm excited you picked up on it.

So, the question is now: Is it a better start? I think it feels better to me, but I'm biased.

Here it is...

The queue outside the Assignments and Orders Office was long, moving slow, and brimming with anxious Marines waiting to receive their destiny – or at least the next four to six years of it.

It was also completely unbearable.

Not because there was a seemingly never-ending sea of “high and tight” haircuts ahead of Zed, as he quietly waited his turn to download his future into his data card. Nor was it because the noise of nearly two hundred excited young men and women, crammed into a hallway capable of holding forty at best, often rose to ear-splitting decibel levels equivalent to a rocket launch.

It was unbearable because, as usual, idiots surrounded Zed. Today, like every day for the past two weeks, the surname Druthers placed him between Billy Draff and Nick Dutchman; two mouthy blokes who hated all things military and wanted everyone else to know how they felt.

[This message has been edited by HSO (edited June 23, 2004).]


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Monolith
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I personally think that using two paragraphs works alot better. The little bit of editing worked better as well. I think you did a great job of rewriting.

I was also in the military (92-95) I also hated the haircut ( had to pay for it) and I have never had long hair since.

Also welcome and have fun.

-BHJr-


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Survivor
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My problem is that if you cut my hair really short it reveals the shape of my braincase (not the reassuring Homo genus contours) and a number of scars (which produce a sort of "coin slot" appearance). Add the standard issue BCGs...actually, I think they ameliorated the overall mess by distracting the eye from the less explicable oddities.

Anyway, back to the subject, I think that this version does indeed address the setting quite well, but you've sacrificed some of the POV to do it. This is probably unavoidable, since the segment here now only reaches the halfway point of the previous version's opening passage.

But another thing is that much of this scene setting is only mentioned as not being unbearable to Zed. That double negative descriptor doesn't come out to be character revelation. Still, an opening cannot be your alpha and omega. As long as it's an alpha, it'll do


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HSO
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quote:
But another thing is that much of this scene setting is only mentioned as not being unbearable to Zed. That double negative descriptor doesn't come out to be character revelation.

Good point, and noted.

I want to make it very clear that standing in line, surrounded by Draff and "Dutch" is annoying the hell out of Zed, not the queue itself. I'm wondering if the very first line should be something like: Zed was annoyed (I need a better word here) as he stood in the queue.... and lose the "unbearable" bits. Ooh! Maybe: Zed wanted to knock some heads! would be a good start.

The thing is, Zed doesn't really hate these two guys -- he's just got a lot on his mind at the moment, and they are getting on his nerves. And Zed isn't necessarily the violent type, either... tho' he does like to fantasize about knocking heads. He's somewhat conflicted, poor kid.

Thanks, Survivor and Monolith.


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Survivor
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Yeah, I got that quite well from the previous version. I think that it is probably a necessary characteristic in anyone that is going to be a non-com, you need to have the impulse to do violence when irritated, but then restrain yourself to verbal expression.

The opening is good. You have a pretty clear setting, a main character, and a conflict between the man and his environment (including some of his fellow man...s).


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Kolona
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Okay, a lot of comments skirted around the issue, but I have to say it. The second version is definitely an improvement but it still holds together on weak verbs. In the first version, 'was' was king. In the second, it retreated a little, but the format now almost demands a bunch of 'wases.' Only almost.

You could strenthen the segment while pulling Jed in even sooner:
<The long queue outside the Assignments and Orders Office moved slowly, brimming with anxious Marines waiting to receive their destiny – or at least the next four to six years of it.
Jed found it almost unbearable.
Not because of the seemingly....>


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Christine
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Ditto Kolona on every point. We all know standing in line is boring. Spending the first couple of paragraphs pointing that out (or seeming to) makes the intro a little boring. Put a human being in there, use stronger verbs to describe his feelings and the truth of the annoyance (which is not the line itself, but the soldiers around him) and you've got a much better hook.


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HSO
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Thx for pointing that out, Kolona... I hadn't realized that I've been doing that.
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