posted
[I've edited the intro, below in a separate post, but leaving this original intact as history, for those interested in where it changed. -- HSO]
Hi folks. Here's what I'm working on this week. As a musician, I've written a few train songs in my day -- thought I'd try my hand at a train story... of sorts.
Contemporary fiction -- no SF/F elements -- maybe 1/5th finished.
My wife likes it... but she's incredibly biased (one of the reason I love her so dearly). So, I need the usual honesty that I am rapidly becoming accustomed to while browsing the topics here. I'm a bit worried about the paragraph lengths... and I truly struggle at determining where to make the breaks..
Cheers!
HSO
******
As the 20:15 to Hillsdale Vidette pulled away from the station, Eddie Hamy settled into his usual seat near the back of the second car, and wondered if today would be his lucky day. From the scores of detective story paperbacks and magazines he had voraciously devoured during his youth, he knew that the perpetrator always returned to the scene of the crime. So far, he had been truly unlucky, with not a single break since he began the hunt for Bitters.
How long had it been? Eddie couldn’t remember, but it felt like forever, and he knew he would never quit until that low-life bastard got what he deserved. Yet he also knew that time was against him, incessantly nibbling away at his old bones, and slowing him down a little bit more as each day passed. Only an unquenchable thirst for sweet vengeance kept him going these days. It would have to do.
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited July 12, 2004).]
posted
"From the scores of detective story paperbacks and magazines he had voraciously devoured during his youth," isn't....
Perps often do return to the scenes of their crimes, you know. It isn't just a fairy tale made up by pulp novelists. Theories as to why it happens so often vary considerably, and the actual motives that impell individual criminals to return to the scene of any particular crime probably vary even more, but it happens a lot.
Not, admittedly, always. If you made that point stronger, I would let it pass. But then you would probably be getting into a POV violation (how can you use a character that believes something absolutely to explore the difference between usually true and absolutely true? I don't really know).
More importantly, it sounds as if he's been hunting this guy for a long time...and he hasn't bothered to get any better training than memories of detective stories read when he was a child? Not an auspicious character trait for your protagonist.
posted
I always loved the anti-hero. And I think you're reaction, Survivor, is exactly what I want to elicit. Hopefully, it compels you to want to know what is going on and why... I guess that's the whole idea.
In the scenes that follow this one, we learn that Eddie had been a brilliant statistician (hardly an exciting career, I know, I know). His head was for numbers, patterns, relationships -- not criminality and detective work. And yes, he's going about things all wrong. In a sense, despite being an old man, his method for tracking down Bitters is rather naive (but if I do my job right, completely plausible).
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited July 07, 2004).]
In any case, I guess I'm not seeing your point... Unless I'm completely misunderstanding you, I think that with tiniest information I've given you, you've leapt to the wrong conclusion about this character or about my knowledge of how things work in the real world. And, that's fine, actually. It's exactly what I want you to do.
By the way, I'm well aware of that criminals often return to the scene of the crime, and that it's not simply a plot device in pulp fiction.
In this case, the scene of the crime is the train -- though not like those Agatha Christie (sp?) mystery-murder train stories.
Here in London, overground trains run at half hour intervals within the city. They make anywhere from 8 to 20 stops (or more). If you take a train from its beginning to its end [of the line], a journey can last 1 to 1-1/2 hours as it travels around the greater London area.
Do the math... it would be impossible for one person to check every train, at every station, on just a single route. And my character rides the train from start to finish each time, then back again -- that's a 3 hour "tour" (no singing of the Gilligan's Island theme, please), not including additional time waiting at stations, or whatever... Within that that time, 5 other trains have left the starting point. So, while he's on one, it's possible that Bitters is on another. This can go on forever. Eddie doesn't know at which station, what time, or when Bitters will be getting on a train. He just knows that he will get on a train. And there's the possibility that he's missed the only chance at catching him...
Additionally, there's other reasons for what he does, and why he does it.
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited July 08, 2004).]
posted
Okay, is it that the story doesn't start well that no one other than Survivor has commented... or is it because it's not a SF/F story? Or could it be that it just doesn't interest anyone? Just curious...
Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
No, there's just not much I could recommend you change. Maybe add a first name for "Bitters", since this is also a name used for a drink component.
Posts: 497 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Well, it doesn't grab me. It is also confusing whether it's been a "long time" since the crime or a "long time" since Eddie started looking for Bitters. And if it's the former, then what was keeping him from starting to look earlier? And what are the stats on time frames for criminals returning to the scene of the crime? Days, months, years? Is he really likely to find Bitters waiting around for him there? I guess from the "usual seat" reference, Eddie has been returning to the scene of the crime every day for a while, so what else has he done? The only thing he seems to have is worry about time and feeling sorry for himself that he is getting old.
And a stastician isn't necessairly a boring career, and definitly not a poor one (example: actuaries). Finding patterns and relationships in things is essential for being a good detective too.
I guess I'm frustrated with it because I don't know who Bitters is, I don't know what the crime was, I don't know how long Eddie has been looking for Bitters, and I don't know anything about Eddie except that he is getting older.
Hmmm, sorry, I guess I didn't say anything good. Ok, so I like that it is a mystery and it starts on a train. I think every good detective story should have a train in it. Ok, ok, maybe not every single one, but I do like the train idea. And having him return to the scene of the crime makes me think that maybe I will find out the crime once he gets there and it get jogged into his memory visually. I just hope it was serious enough to drive Eddie into revenge mode on a long timescale. Hope this was useful.
posted
I'm hesistant to say much about Eddie and all those reasons you brought up, Lorien, because it would completely spoil the story -- should I ever ask for anyone to read it once it's finished.
But, I will say these things:
Eddie Hamy -- anagram it... see what you come up with. If you figure it out, please don't post it here...
Bitters is an acronym of sorts -- it came from Black Trousers - Red Shirt... (revealed much later in the story). BTRS = bitters in his mind... relationships, etc. Eddie doesn't know the "perp's" real name. He's only met him once. Thus, I can't give him a first name because the POV is Eddie...
Anyway, Lorien, those are all very good questions you've raised, and every single one of those are answered fully in the story. So, in a way, because you've asked them, I feel like I've done something right. Thanks.
Goatboy: Why does that name ring a bell? Thanks for you commment...
quote:From the scores of detective story paperbacks and magazines he had voraciously devoured during his youth, he knew that the perpetrator always returned to the scene of the crime.
But from his years as a statistician and his amateur interest in criminology, he knows exactly how often that really happens and what time frame is probable.
quote:How long had it been? Eddie couldn’t remember, but it felt like forever, and he knew he would never quit until that low-life bastard got what he deserved.
And yet still he hadn't bothered to do anything more effective about it than ride around on a train every day, hoping that the odds (which he in fact knows are heavily against him) turn in his favor by virtue of dime novel platitudes.
quote:I guess I'm frustrated with it because I don't know who Bitters is, I don't know what the crime was, I don't know how long Eddie has been looking for Bitters, and I don't know anything about Eddie except that he is getting older.
Except for that last bit, this could be a direct quote from Eddie (and who knows how bad Eddie's memory might be?). Which is funny, but also telling. The reason that I don't care about the answers to any of these questions is because I basically don't care about Eddie himself. Like the opening of RH's story about the seven century old sophisticate, this opening gives me no reason to invest in this character.
It's not that I don't believe that there are people walking around being stupider than they really are forced to be (by limitations of biology and experience, I mean). It's that I don't like reading stories about people like that. Many people don't. The "antihero" of modern fiction is supposed to lack "heroic" qualities of the traditional hero--instead of being invincible and having numerous super-powers like Superman or being a billionaire in superb physical shape and with the iron will of Batman, he's some shmuck that can't hold onto a job because he's less skilled and can't hold onto a woman because he's ugly (or because he's unfaithful).
But in spite of that, he's trying the very best he can. This guy isn't really trying. If he suceeds, it will be by dumb luck. He's not really invested in catching Bitters, for all of his maundering about "an unquenchable thirst for sweet vengeance" and making sure "that low-life bastard got what he deserved." He's got the smarts to go after this guy effectively, but he lacks the will to actually engage his brain in the task.
The whole point of using an "antihero" is that he has to exert so much effort to accomplish what aliens or billionaires could do without even breaking a sweat. But your guy doesn't break a sweat either, not because he doesn't need to try that hard, but because he doesn't genuinely care.
posted
Survivor, would you mind if I emailed you privately? I have something I would like to share w/ you off the boards -- nothing sinister or anything like that. Just a heads up that I don't want to disclose here... Let me know.
posted
No need to ask permission. If you make it past the anti-spam filter, my email is there for you to send me stuff.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Email sent. Hopefully, I was cunning enough to avoid the spam filter... and that I've cleared a few things up. Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
No problems with it. This early in the story, the name and the character aren't inseparable in the reader's mind (or at least not my mind).
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I would like to repost the revised intro. Many thanks to all who responded with feedback, because you truly helped to solidify my idea. With special kudos to Survivor, who's "gentle" and dogged persistence that I was making an error turned out to be absolutely correct. (Dang, I hate being wrong, but I must admit it was so.)
Thus, a name change for the character (which "sucked" -- a fair observation) and the last line of the first paragraph is more or less Survivor's recommendation. Again thanks for your help.
****
As the 20:15 to Hillsdale Vidette pulled away from the station, Jeremiah Hudson settled into his usual seat near the back of the second car, and wondered if today would be his lucky day. From the scores of detective story paperbacks and magazines he had voraciously devoured during his youth, he was confident that the perpetrator would eventually return to the scene of the crime. So far, he had been truly unlucky, with not a single break since he began the hunt for Bitters: the man who had taken away his life, and, of course, the one thing that truly mattered to him.
How long had it been? Jeremiah couldn’t remember, but it felt like forever, and he knew he would never quit until that low-life, thieving bastard got what he deserved. Yet he also knew that time was against him, incessantly nibbling away at his old bones, and slowing him down a little bit more as each day passed. Only an unquenchable thirst for sweet vengeance kept him going these days. It would have to do.
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited July 12, 2004).]
posted
You've still got the primary thing that bothered me, his reliance on pulp detective fiction read in his youth. There is simply no reason for this. If he still believes that criminals return to the scene of the crime, he has more to go on than fiction stories he last read decades ago. If he continued reading those stories as an adult, he would be as conversant with the truths behind them as SF fans are with the science behind their own chosen entertainment. If not, then he wouldn't be referring back to them now. I'm afraid that I'm going to remain adament on this point, having him refer back to those stories makes him unbelievable and ridiculous as a character. I read plenty of SF as a kid, but I would never consciously think back to those stories while trying to design a working space-craft (what they've done to my poor subconscious mind is another thing entirely).
"taken away his entire life, [i]including[i] the one thing..." might flow better and make more sense. This line is a nice addition in that it gives us an idea of the scale of dramatic intensity we're dealing with in the story, but showing the increased scale of the dramatic intensity just makes the main character's reliance on fiction dimly remembered from his youth even more baffling.
posted
I know... I'm on the fence at the moment on that detective story thing... my gut says your probably right... yet my heart says "No!" That's why I reworded it. Hmm... maybe if it make it a negative statement... such as: "He believed this not because of the scores of ... but because he had to believe in something -- anything."
I do see your point, Survivor.
So...
You're telling me I can't build a spacecraft like they did in that 80's movie -- er... what was it? I forget. Was it Explorers or something? A very young Ethan Hawke, IIRC.
Oh. Guess I'll have to rely on my engineering background then.
posted
80's movie...young Ethan Hawke...I've got nothing. I was watching The Black Hole a while back, now that's a good SF movie.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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