posted
I've hit a bit of a wall with this story. It was inspired by something Lorien wrote over in my Economics of Advice thread in Open Discussions. I think part of it could be that I'm not starting it out right. I'd appreciate feedback on the opening. Not sure about the rest but if anyone wants a basic outline I suppose I could come up with something tangible. Eventually this becomes a sci-fi story, though you wouldn't really know it from what I have here.
----- "What do you mean you only take beer cans? Do you really expect me to re-sort all this crap and then drive around all day looking for a place to take the rest of my empties?"
"Look lady, I just work here. Do you want the manager?" asked the young man behind the counter.
"No I don't want the manager…Brad," she sneered, reading the name on his shirt. "I want you to take my bottles."
"I'm sorry, you'll have to go somewhere else."
"Fine." She turned and started dragging her two big, black garbage bags towards the exit.
The woman was in such a hurry to get out of the depot and away from the stench of old booze that she barely noticed the man standing by the door until he stepped in front of her. "For five bucks I'll tell you where to go."
He had a potbelly and wore an old undershirt that had probably been white at one time. It was tucked into a pair of grease-stained blue jeans, which were held up by a pair of red suspenders. The stub of a cigar wagged in the corner of his mouth as he waited for her answer.
----- [Cultural note: In Canada people pay a deposit on nearly all drink containers. Beer/Pop bottles, cans, juice boxes, etc. These containers can be returned to a bottle depot for a refund of the deposit. I guess the reason is to encourage people to recycle.]
[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited August 23, 2004).]
posted
I'm afraid that even with your explanation, I'm having a bit of cultural uncertainty here. So you go to the grocery store and buy a soda and pay a deposit and then....do you take it back to the grocery store? From this opening, it sounds like you have to take the beer bottles one place and the soda bottles someplace else, but is it really that annoying? That doesn't sound like it would encourage recycling.
Ok, aside from that curiosity, the fact that a person living in Canada doesn't know how the system works is a little confusing. You may also want to consider establishing the georgraphy of the story up-front so it's clear where we are. It's probably not such a big deal if you're planning on going with a canadian publication but I don't know too many of those so...
I'm also thrown by the fact that I don't have anybody's name nor do I see a clear point of view emerging. I suppose it could be omsnicient, but even an omniscient narrator would know people's names.
posted
Whenever you buy say a can of pop, you are charged an extra 5 cents. You then round up all your bottles and cans and stuff and take them to a bottle depot. Most places take all of them. What Lorien observed was one bottle depot that had decided to only recycle the beer bottles and was turning away people who brought in anythings else. Apparently there was a guy there offering to tell people how to get to another bottle depot if they would pay him $5.
POV eventually settles on the fat man, but starts out omniscient because I'm only using the exchange between the woman and the employee to establish where this is happening. This is still very rough. I'll probably have to re-work it a bit. Somehow give the picture that the fat man is there watching the scene.
This system is no longer in use anywhere in the United states as far as I'm aware, though it was fairly common as late as a decade ago. Currently, recycling is generally handled as a special (and often private enterprise) type of trash collection. The recycling truck comes to your house and picks up your recyclables. That might tend to limit audience here in the States and whatever sectors of Canada have begun to use a more convenient method of encouraging recycling.
Still, the Seinfield where Kramer and Newman evolve a plan to collect bottles at five cents and take them across the state border to recycle them at ten cents is a classic, no? I certainly had no difficulty, even though I haven't seen a bottle recycling center in years...good heavens, I'm a dinosaur.
posted
From what you have here, it would be very jarring to suddenly get put in the POV of the fat man. Perhaps you could make it clear he is observing the exchange? And give a name.
*****
They do this deposit thing in Michigan too(perhaps they got the idea from the Canadians ). All the grocery stores have these automated machines where you feed the bottles and drink cans in one by one. It spins it around, reading the bar code off the label (You only get the deposit back if you purchased the drink in Michigan, and not all drinks seem to have a deposit. This aspect seems bad for the recycling aspect, but I digress), then if it is accepted, it brushes/crushes the can off into some bin in the back. At the end you get a ticket to redeem at the cashier.
Having encounted these machines, and the strange looks the lady handing out food samples give you when you ask what they are for and how it works (apparently it is assumed all who enter Michigan grocery stores understand these things from birth), I found the frustration of the woman rather delightful!
[This message has been edited by GZ (edited August 23, 2004).]
posted
I didn't have any problem with the recyling aspect of the story, but I guess that just means I'm dating myself, too. Maybe that means that you should decide how important the recylcing element is to the story and see if you should keep it or not. If so, just find a way to make it clear that the story is set in a previous time period.
My main issue with this opening is that you go for so very long without identifying who 'she' is. How can a reader identify with a character that has no name? Unless the mystery is part of the story, there isn't a ny reason not to tell us her name ASAP.
On a smaller scale, I've heard various arguments on this subject, but tend to fall on the side that says opening a story cold with dialogue that has no context is a mistake unless the character is saying something particularly outrageous.
posted
I'm a HUGE opponent of changing POV. Reading (or "reading") Heinlein's "Number of the Beast" gives me a headache. To that end, I'd remove the whole different POV because your audience will naturally focus on the woman screaming for attention at the beginning.
OK. Let's examine your story.
>"What do you mean you only take beer cans? >Do you really expect me to re-sort all this >crap and then drive around all day looking >for a place to take the rest of my empties?"
Personally, I think you could cut straight to the main character's POV. He's walking into a store (gives you a chance to describe the store, the smells etc.) and he can be walking in just as a lady is dragging two gross bags of foul-smelling beer bottles.
>He had a potbelly and wore an old undershirt >that had probably been white at one time.
Strikes me as awkward. Tell us these things in context. Describe how he walks slowly because of his girth, or maybe describe him as dirty... from his stringly, half-gone hair to his dirty shirt.
posted
I think it works as a hook. Though I wanted a little description in the first para or some before the start of the second, it also works without in the first, because it's pretty obvious where she is (good dialogue ;-). Her emotions also come through clear in them (again, good dialogue ;-).
However, I'm not sure which pov this is. When I read "The woman was in such a hurry", I assumed omni or someone watching this play out (namely the second man). But then the final paragraph does away with the latter possibility, so I'm thinking omni again--but I wonder why the names are withheld.
So the only real suggestion I have is to fix more firmly the pov in this snippet.
posted
Well I've re-worked the beginning a bit but it didn't help as much as I thought it would. However, I think I've figured out another of my problems.
The story revolves around an infestation of alien parasites but I'm getting hung up on how to get the back story about the parasites into the story without info dumping. I want the story to be about the fat man, Joe, who is infected, and how he deals with his situation.
I'm toying with the idea of a prologue, or writing the story like something from a medical journal or encyclopedia followed by a case study of Joe. I'm not sure I want to write in this style but I'm not having much luck coming up with ideas.
posted
I know I'm doing a lot of consecutive posting but I'm really trying to figure this out. Anyways, here is the new opening.
----
Joe tried not to smile as he watched the lady scream at the clerk who refused to accept her empty pop bottles. It wasn’t a new scene. Joe had seen it several times since the depot stopped accepting anything except beer cans and bottles and he counted on it to help with his sales pitch.
"Do you really expect me to re-sort all this crap and then drive around all day looking for a place to take the rest of my empties?"
"Look lady, I just work here. Do you want the manager?" asked the young man behind the counter.
"No I don't want the manager…Brad," she sneered, reading the name on his shirt. "I want you to take my bottles."
"I'm sorry, you'll have to go somewhere else."
"Fine." She turned and started dragging her two big, black garbage bags towards the exit.
The woman was in such a hurry to get out of the depot and away from the stench of old booze that she barely noticed Joe standing by the door until he stepped in front of her.
[OPENING A LITTLE TOO DIRECT]Joe tried not to smile as he watched the lady scream at the clerk who refused to accept her empty pop bottles. It wasn’t a new scene. Joe had seen it several times since the depot stopped accepting anything except beer cans and bottles and he counted on it to help with his sales pitch.
"Do you really expect me to [I THINK YOU CAN JUST SAY RESORT]re-sort all this crap and then drive around all day[COMMA] looking for a place to take the rest of my empties[EMPTIES? Don't quite understand this word.]?"
"Look lady, I just work here. Do you want the manager?" asked the young man behind the counter.
"No I don't want the manager…Brad," she sneered, reading the name on his shirt. [THIS IS TOO IN DEPTH. IN FACT, THIS ENTIRE SEGMENT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A LEAD IN, SO TREAT IT LIKE THAT] "I want you to take my bottles."
"I'm sorry, you'll have to go somewhere else."
"Fine." She turned and started dragging her two big, black garbage bags towards the exit.
The woman was in such a hurry to get out of the depot and away from the stench of old booze that she barely noticed Joe standing by the door until he stepped in front of her.
"For five bucks I'll tell you where to go."
I think you should just compress the whole scene. I know you wrote it and are attached to the words, but it doesn't feel like it's helping the story. With that kind of frame, you want to just use the next part as a lead in.
posted
I'm aware of the bottle depot concept, but we don't do it that way here. Every store that sells bottles and cans must collect a 10 cent deposit and then refund it when you bring the cans and bottles back. But, they don't have to take any brand they don't sell. The real enterprising guy is the one who started offering to pick people's cans an bottles up and haul them. He only pays five cents, but still collects ten.
I think if you simply called it a "bottle return", it would probably work for most of us here.
posted
The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language refines the two terms seperatly and as follows:
quote:resort
SYLLABICATION: re·sort PRONUNCIATION: ri-zôrt INTRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: re·sort·ed, re·sort·ing, re·sorts 1. To have recourse: The government resorted to censorship of the press. 2. To go customarily or frequently; repair. NOUN: 1. A place frequented by people for relaxation or recreation: a ski resort. 2. A customary or frequent going or gathering: a popular place of resort. 3. The act of turning to for aid or relief; recourse: raised the money without resort to borrowing. 4. One turned to for aid or relief: I would ask him only as a last resort.
Empties: This is a slang term for empty bottles and cans. ---------------------- I might be too hung up on this scene, but I feel that it is important to the story.
Joe is little more than a street guy and he is trying to earn some money. Collecting bottles from garbage cans is a common way for many street people to make some money. Of course they aren't going to find many beer bottles or cans so the bottle depot in the story isn't going to be frequented by other street people. Joe goes there to sell information and panhandle.
My big challenge is trying to get the parasite information into the story. I'm not sure if it should come before or after the depot scene and I'm not sure how to start writing it. I have an outline of sorts that talks about the parasites, but it isn't even written as anything more than notes.
posted
I don't have problems with this scene, and frankly the whole concern about what a place to return bottles is called, baffles me. If this were a near-future SF story and Robyn-Hood had invented the concept would any of us have problems with it?
I think that the POV issue was the only thing troubling me and Phanto's suggestion would fix that nicely.
quote:Frank watched the lady walk into the store, dragging the tell-tale garbage bags.
Does Frank know that he has parasites? If he does, then it should be fairly easy to work the info in, but if he doesn't I can see where you're having trouble.
Joe does know that he is infested, but these are alien parasites that I made-up so I need to find a way to give readers information about what they are, where they came from, etc. If I said he had a tapeworm, people would know what I'm talking about, at least in a general sense.
I'm thinking of having Joe go to the doctor for a pre-operative appointment, but I find I'm info-dumping every time I start to write that scene.
Here's what I've outlined about the parasites so far:
quote:Earth became exposed to the parasites ten years ago following a barrage of meteorites. It was thought that they would wipe out everyone within a year except that certain people were immune: smokers, in fact. Scientists quickly discovered that the parasite eggs could not survive in a nicotine rich environment. Smokers were more or less immune. Once the eggs hatched and the larva started to grow, they become more resistant to nicotine. Thus, it is not enough to start smoking after becoming infected, however this will help slow their development.
Nicotine becomes an active ingredient in many bug sprays; people start wearing nicotine patches. After removal of the parasites, liquid nicotine is injected directly into the cavity where the larva had been. These are needed once a day for one week.
The parasites are about the size of a cricket. They are dark blue in color with a streak of orange down their back. The lifecycle is as follows:
• The egg is injected into the host’s belly; within days it hatches and the larvae emerges • The larva feeds slowly as it grows, except for an occasional, intense “heartburn” sensation near the intestines, the host would not be aware of the bug’s existence (heartburn symptom earns them the name: belly-fire bugs), this stage lasts for about 13 weeks, if you begin nicotine it can be drawn out for an additional four weeks • The bug then goes into pupa form, it no longer feeds, but they complete their transformation into adult form, this takes about four weeks, while in the pupal casing it is unaffected by nicotine • When the adult emerges, it devours the host from the inside out, after killing the host, it mates then crawls off, finds a new host, lays four eggs, and dies.
The bugs will not choose a host that is currently infected and they cannot travel far. In fact, transmission is practically person to person.
Also, the parasites can be affected by diseases the host has. Something that is proven to kill them is HIV. While the host can survive for several years with HIV and even for a while with AIDS, the parasites are affected immediately and die off. While most people opt for surgery, if you cannot afford the drugs, then you can choose to infect yourself. You will eventually die from AIDS, but at least you will live longer than if you have the parasites in you. And there is always the chance that AIDS will be cured before you die, if you can afford it that is.
[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited August 25, 2004).]
Okay. I think you can work a lot of that information into the story slowly, because a lot of it is stuff I wouldn't need up-front. Infodump at the doctor's is an old technique, it's just the "As you know, Bob's" that you want to avoid. If you focus more on Frank's reactions than on the information, then the scene can do more than just be an infodump. I think it could have the potential to be more interesting than a doctor's report.
posted
I thought the 8/25/04 rewrite workes fine. It clears up the POV problems, which was what was the only problem in the first version, in my oppinion.
And your parasites -- Like Mary said, a lot of that you don't need upfront, so you've got plenty of time to drop it in slowly.
posted
Hmmm...well, I'm not so hot on the concept of these bugs.
Nicotine is already an ingredient in some "organic" pest control products, so I guess that aspect is somewhat plausible. Injection with a couple of cc's of pure nicotine liquid will kill you on the spot, though.
But anything this complex surviving a reentry trip on a meteor...I can't see anything organically compatible with Earth-life (i.e. able to eat us and be killed by nicotine) surviving that kind of trip. All the single celled candidates for panspermia theory find the human body inhospitible and most have metabolic pathways divergent enough to be unaffected by most conventional drugs.
And the life cycle you describe doesn't make a lot of sense some places--the final phase in particular, where the bug eats the host from the inside out, mates and then crawls off to find a new host.
First off, how do just four cricket-sized bugs eat enough of you to cause death on their way out? I can see this being occasionally fatal, like if they ate through an artery or something, but nothing like universally fatal. Second, it seems like the only mating would occur between brood siblings. In that case, why would they even mate at all? Third, how many generations would these things survive once people realize that if you see a guy go into terminal convulsions and some blue bugs pop out and start having an orgy, it is time to run away? It seems to me that within a year of these things showing up, human infections would be extremely rare.
This is aside from the fact that there is no reason it would be even remotely difficult to remove these things during their larval and pupal phases. Nor is there any plausible reason that many people with these bugs would refuse such treatment and no reason whatsoever that any government that could afford even a rudimentary health care program would fail to provide free removal.
But I liked your revised opening a lot better than the first try.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
