posted
I'm in the final stages of preparing a piece of historical fiction. One issue mentioned by critiquers, was that they didn't know until about halfway through, what period the story was set in. I've made some changes and tried to make it clearer earlier.
Based on the following paragraph, when do you think the story is set? The paragraphs that come before this one already establish it as A.D.
quote:At one time her father had been a profitable merchant. He’d had a shop and sold beautiful silks imported from the lands of the magi. Several times a year, he would travel north to Constantinople or east to Mesopotamia to examine available goods and place orders. He always returned with gifts for Nareia and her sisters. In her mind, he was the richest merchant in the whole Roman Empire. At six years old, she never thought that such prosperity could come to an end.
Please provide a reason for your guess.
[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited May 26, 2005).]
posted
Um...Roman Empire? Sometime before the 400's. I'm guessing that because you say "richest man in the whole Roman Empire." Also probably after Christianity came to the empire because of the magi reference.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Well, prior to Constantinople being captured by Turks and renamed -- I see that is 1453 AD, so after the fall of Rome, and not much help as a clue... The silk/merchant reference probably ties into the Silk Road, though that seems to have been in use over a wide time period both BC and AD. Probably the definer is the "whole Roman Empire," so before the Byzantine empire split from Rome over the issue of popes, which appears to be 1054 AD. So between 1 and 1050 AD. But why use "whole" before you know it's going to split?
Posts: 652 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
See, now a couple of these responses have been too technical. Most of your readers aren't going to know when Constantine was emporor, or even when Rome fell.
The thing that made me think ancient--like maybe pre-AD was the MC's name. It sounds ancient, very foreign.
Of course there's the magi reference.
But I think most of your readers are going to read 'Roman Empire' and think the classic Roman era--the high Roman era that they see so much on TV and in movies--and that's much earlier than what you're aiming for.
I don't know what to tell you to fix it, unless you could reference it with some commonly known historical event that might have happened near her time. Or even sneak into the sermon she hears at the cathedral some reference to how many years it's been since Christ was born. Even have the priest speak the year. "In this, the Year of our Lord..."
I'm glad to see you're still working on this one. I liked it.
posted
As mentioned before, I don't think people would know the same things as I do. But I'll hazard a guess. Some time after the fall of Rome, probably in the hours of glory of Byzantium. The girl's sister's name sounds Greek to me, so that means it can't be just after Constantine or they'd speak latin. I know the Roman Empire is either the standard thing or the Byzantine one, and from context this sounds more like Byzantium. The magi sounds like a Christian reference, but why is it not capitalized if that is the case? I think it is well before the Empire started to collapse, because there is no mention of Turks or of encroaching Islam or Christianity. But I'm putting an awful lot of guesses on not much. (for all I know, there were magi in Rome --after all, the word had to come from somewhere). Actually, the fact that he goes north to Constantinople and east to Mesopotamia suggests he was somewhere near Syria (broadly speaking, in Asia Minor), and those were among the first territories lost to Islam (either the southernmost ones, which were lost in the 7th century, or when the whole of Asia minor fell --can't remember when, but soon after the schism, so end of 11th century). So well before the 11th Century, but after the 5th.
Do we get to know the answer? :-D
[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited May 27, 2005).]
posted
My first thought because of the mention of the silk road was the 11th century. However, since the story happens some years later than the period you discribe( which is clear because you say -was at one time a profitable merchant) why not just say when he was rich, mention the year?
[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited May 27, 2005).]
posted
To me it sounded like the age of the Italian city-states before the invasion of the Turks. The only thing that threw this off was the reference to the Roman Empire(unless you mean the Holy Roman Empire). The rest doesn't really feel like the Roman Empire to me because I can't see a merchant like this one is portrayed under Roman rule. I thought most of the Roman trade was carried out by influential Roman families and was heavily influenced by the government. The independent merchant setup sounds like a later date after the rise of the merchant class. It would feel more like the late Roman empire if the father's status as a Roman is emphasized. Not that he was a merchant, but that he was a Roman senator or had connections with a particular high-ranking family. If I was to guess based on this passage, I would say sometime in the 5th century when the western empire starts to die. Maybe after the sack of Rome by the Visigoths.
Posts: 266 | Registered: Mar 2004
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You may be trying too hard to signboard the period. If someone's not familiar with the period, they aren't familiar with the period.
I do suggest that you could try saying "new capitol" in Constantinople, and leave it at that. Pretty much anyone would get that this story is taking place within a generation of the founding of Constantinople, even if they don't know much about it's founding or how to find it on a modern map. If they don't know the significance of Constantinople, calling it the "new capitol" tells them pretty much all they need to understand. It also signals that this isn't the classical Roman period.
For the rest of this, spread it out in your action. It's already turning into an exposition block. You don't need the entire collection of information to tell the reader what time period this is, and if they aren't familiar with the period, no amount of exposition is going to help.
posted
It seems clear to me that this is set in the mid to late stages of the Roman Empire. I mean, you specify that it is in the Roman Empire. Constantinople, named after Constantine, tells me that this is after the onset of Christianity, but it can't be too long because the western Roman Empire doesn't stick around too long after that. So it must be somewhere around 500?
P.S. After reading the other posts I realized something...most people think of the Roman Empire as "ancient" and therefore B.C. Those who know history, know that Rome was a democracy until Caesar, who came around the same time as Christ. This need not mean you have to change anything, but it is something you will be fighting against.
[This message has been edited by Christine (edited May 27, 2005).]
posted
Wow, some good and detailed guesses. The story is set around 320-330 AD. There was some confussion in an earlier version about whether the story was simply set in a foreign country (i.e. third world) or different time.
Judging from the responses here, I think I've set it up well enough that readers will be expecting this to be at least 1000 years ago.
Thanks for all the help.
quote:But why use "whole" before you know it's going to split?
I was going for whole as in, "the whole, wide world". Perhaps I'll change it to "entire".
quote:The magi sounds like a Christian reference, but why is it not capitalized if that is the case?
I think it just got missed. Thanks for catching it.
Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
See what I get for taking so long to hammer out a few words!
Survivor, yes, you did read this for me. I might try using the "new capitol".
Christine, I hesitated to use Rome as a reference for that very reason. However, there is sufficient indication, prior to this paragraph, that sets it firmly as A.D., post-crucifixion/ressurection.
posted
"Constantinople" is fighting with "Roman Empire." Wasn't it called Byzantium during any actual Roman Empire? Anyway, I think of the Roman empire as ending in the mid 400's, or at least any Roman empire being spoken of in glowing tones. "Constantinople" makes me think 1100 at the earliest. "Mesopotamia" makes me think I'm reading something written by a modern person for sure. I have no idea if it is accurate, but Babylon was in that area.
FYI, I did not read the other responses before posting. Though now that I have, I find it odd that those who got it wrong tend to cluster around the 10th century.
[This message has been edited by franc li (edited May 30, 2005).]
posted
Thank you Robyn, I'm working on a story that takes place in the late 10th century in Venice and these posts are helping me to see how people read historic details. And I'm far from a historic expert, so I need help.
Posts: 397 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I guess we 10th century error prone fellows read too much history. After the fall of Rome, the East Roman Empire, capital Byzantium or Constantinople, subsided for about a thousand years (Fall of Constantinople: 1453 AD) until the Turks overran it. It was mostly of Greek culture and had countless theological spats with Rome, mostly over peccadilloes. The reference to merchants and silks threw us off, I guess.
Posts: 1075 | Registered: Sep 2004
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