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Author Topic: The fantasy thing my friend and I are working on.
Monolith
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Could you guys help me out here a bit. I'm stuck on the beginning (as usual), but does this work for any of you?
---------------------------------------------

Conn stood his ground with his sword ready as a lumbering Shikar warrior closed with speed that didn’t match its size.

The Shikar came here for one reason, to raid our food and kill my people, Conn thought as he sidestepped a clawed hand meant for him.

He countered with a swing of his own and had a satisfied grin when the steel bit into flesh. Fur, blood and bone stuck to the sword after it completed its deadly arc.

The Shikar warrior fell to one knee holding its side in a feeble attempt to keep its insides from seeing the light of day.

Conn took a step and swung his sword down with all he had.
The force of the blow took the head off in a single blow.

---------------------------------------------


Any and all feedback is appreciated. I have the hardest time in dealing with the beginnings.

Thanks in advance.
-The Ever Wondering Monolith-


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Spaceman
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I think Conn would think about why this guy was attacking before the attack, and worry about staying alive during the attack.
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ely
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I agree with SM. You could use a bit of narative to show why Conn is being attacked, instead of it being a thought from Conn.

The entire fight scene comes to a close pretty quickly. I might like to see it drawn out a bit more, maybe show some danger so we feel something for Conn.


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Taika
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I agree with Spaceman and ely about the length and narrative but if you do decide to use this beginning or even just the sentence, the phrase "Conn thought as he sidestepped a clawed hand meant for him." stopped me as I was reading. The ending seems too long, if Conn is sidestepping then the attack was pretty much obviously directed at him so there's no need for the resst of the sentence.

It's a good hook, had there been more to read, I would've read, so you've got a good idea of how the beginning should be I think, it's just a little confusing because we don't really have any information aside from Conn's one thought. The informatinon doesn't even have to be explained in great detail at the start as long as it is better explained a short time after the act so you could give us all the information required in about three or four sentences, then the attack, then a better explanation.

Anyway, don't bother carving anything I say in stone, like I said, you've got the hook, you just need to smooth it out a bit, but how you do that is really up to you.

[This message has been edited by Taika (edited June 03, 2005).]


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wbriggs
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See the thread in Open Discussions about how to do close-quarters combat.
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Rahl22
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This is certainly jumping into a story with action, but I'm not sure that's always a good thing. I can't feel suspense or fear for the character's safety if I don't know him, at least a little bit, first.
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Monolith
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Ok here's the beginning rewritten. Does this seem to help or only hinder things?

Let me know if this is better or what.

I've already sent it off to my friend to let him have a looksie.


The Shikar spilled out of the forest intent on getting everything they could from the village of Hapshire. They came out in their raiding party size, twenty members strong.

Terrified screaming and inhuman howls woke Conn and his father, Jaros from their deep sleep. Each grabbed his sword and went out to investigate the situation.

Villagers were running from the invaders and some even tried to fight them off only to be killed with a single blow from viciously clawed hands.

“Father, it’s the cursed Shikar, they’re back. Thought they only came every other year.”

Three Shikar noticed Conn and his father outside their hut as they came into the village, intent on stealing what food they could from the smaller humans.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance for your guy's time.

-Monolith-


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Spaceman
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Honestly, I think this sample requires more work on the mechanics than on the storyline.
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Monolith
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Ok, Spaceman

What mechanics are you talking about?

Just curious that's all.


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Survivor
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The ones that are about to drop an engine block on your hero's head, of course
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Spaceman
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The third sentence seems to run on, but other than that, I can't remember what bothered me the other day. Maybe it's just the style I don't like. I liked the style you used in the first try and the content of the second try. This second try just seems to have an awkward rhythm. Sentences and paragraphs feel like they are almost all the same length, for one thing, and the incomplete sentence in the dialog on the fourth line doesn't flow for me. Does that make sense?

[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited June 08, 2005).]


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kkmmaacc
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Dear Monolith,

Hi! Not a bad beginning. I don't have much writing experience, so I'm just responding as a reader, with what I like and don't like about it. Maybe some of this will be helpful to you, but if not, well, I warned you.

I have two overall comments, then some more specific stylistic comments at the end.

First, I definitely prefer the second one. The main thing that I don't like (about both versions) is that the language does not match the activity level of the scene being described. The language seems kind of flat, while the scene is action-packed. It's like you're describing the actions in a detached way. The second version is a lot better in this respect, but I think it could still be more active.

The second thing I don't like is that these two warriors were awakened from their sleep by this surprise attack, yet there are already people outside running around and getting killed before they get there. It sounds like the entire village got up before they did. Did they sleep through the first several minutes? Do all the other villagers have better hearing? Maybe you could clarify -- anything to make it sound like the heroes aren't latecomers, or explain why it's reasonable for them to be latecomers.

more specific comments:

The Shikar spilled out of the forest intent on getting everything they could from the village of Hapshire.
--That's good -- action-oriented sentence

They came out in their raiding party size, twenty members strong.
--The verb here "come out" is too similar to the one of previous sentence ("spill out"). And the verb isn't really doing much here. It might be better to lose it and just say "It was a raiding party -- twenty members strong."

Terrified screaming and inhuman howls woke Conn and his father, Jaros from their deep sleep.
--Just a thought -- maybe making screaming and howls (non-animate things) the subject of a sentence lends to the non-action-oriented impression I'm getting here. How about switching the subject and object? "Conn and his father Jaros lay in a deep sleep, but they awakened immediately with the first terrified screams and inhuman howls."

Each grabbed his sword and went out to investigate the situation.
--The verb "investigate" seems too understated. Investigating is what you do when you see branches bent back along the trail; when you awake to your neighbors being slaughtered, investigating is not appropriate. Also, "went out" is a semantically bleached way of describing what they did. Maybe they ran out, stumbled out, tumbled out, or something like that.

Villagers were running from the invaders and some even tried to fight them off only to be killed with a single blow from viciously clawed hands.
-- I guess this is the sentence that makes the heroes seem like sleepy-heads.

“Father, it’s the cursed Shikar, they’re back. Thought they only came every other year.”
-- That sounds too stilted and formal for the situation -- you should at least lose the "Father" part. And saying all that would take a lot of breath that Conn should be using to run towards the nearest villager being clawed to death.

Three Shikar noticed Conn and his father outside their hut as they came into the village, intent on stealing what food they could from the smaller humans.
--That makes it sound like Conn and father are just standing still outside their hut. Also, you've already explained the intentions of the Shikar, so you don't need to do it again here. And finally, you should rewrite this so that the sentence is about actions, not noticing and intending. How about something like "Three Shikar wheeled to face Conn and his father, momentarily dropping the food they had plundered to concentrate on the flashing steel of the two longswords."

OK, I guess that's all I would say. Sorry if none of that makes any sense, or goes against the picture you were trying to convey. Just thought I would offer up my impressions in case they should prove to be useful to you.

Best of luck!

-Katherine.

[This message has been edited by kkmmaacc (edited June 08, 2005).]


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Monolith
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ok Survivor

Do you know what kind of mechanics ( and not ones that don't know how to use a cherry picker) Spaceman's talking about?

Could you clarify it for me? I think double K got me going ok, but he still confused the heck out of me.

Thanks for the assistance

-Monolith-


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Spaceman
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Survivor can feel free to disagree with me or elaborate. My comments basically have to do with rhythmic verse. It's not a huge problem with what you wrote, maybe it's a problem with me.
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yanos
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I think you should think about
1) POV - what are you looking for here? You seem to be using 3PO. This means that so far there is a distance from the emotional impact of the action. You can still keep 3PO and draw the reader in by showing the reactions of your chracters to the events. Even better is to introduce an air of mystery to the attack. If people are being killed they are likely to still be in their own homes.

2)Disjointed sentences and poor punctuation, e.g.

quote:
Villagers were running from the invaders and some even tried to fight them off only to be killed with a single blow from viciously clawed hands.
This slows down the pace or obscures the ideas you are trying to address. This one sentence should be two. Split up the runners and the fighters as distinct observations and it will have more impact.

3) Copnversation. When your village is being attacked, what do you think of and say? It it was me, I'd be talking in short sentences, to the poin, e.g. "Father, it's the Shikar. What'll we do?" Other observations can wait until after the battle.

Just something for you to think about


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Survivor
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I was just kidding around.

If I'd been more sober, I might have said something along the lines of what yanos mentioned.


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kkmmaacc
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Dear Monolith,

Hi! I guess I am the double K you are talking about in your last post (note: If so, it should be "SHE confused the heck out of me"). :-)

In any event, sorry for being opaque!! I want to atone. Here's my second try:

First, I like the way you are jumping in with a dynamic scene. I think that will grab your readers' attention, and the creatures attacking sound interesting too. My main suggestion is to make the words as action-packed as the scene. Three specific suggestions are:

1. Use people as the subject of every sentence instead of things, wherever possible.

2. Use verbs that describe physical actions, not mental ones. In an action scene, verbs should tell what people are doing, not what they are thinking. For example, noticing, intending, wanting, and fearing are all mental activity verbs. Turning, taking, or quivering are physical ones that could get the same points across.

3. I think the action will come more to life if the verbs describing actions are as specific as possible. For example, go/went means only to move from one place to another, and that's it. Not a lot of meaning in such a verb. A verb like stride or slink also means movement, but additionally includes information about the movement itself. So a sentence like "He went to the door" is less informative than "He strode to the door" or "He slunk to the door". I think that will help people to be able to picture the actions as they read.

Best,

Katherine.



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Monolith
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Ok, is this any better? I have rewritten and/or added things to this as suggested by you nice folks here. Does this make more sense or what?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Shikar spilled out of the forest intent on getting everything they could from the village of Hapshire. It was a raiding party--twenty members strong, most of them carrying bags for what they looted. None of them carried weapons for they had large hands that ended in wicked claws the size of knives.

Conn and his father Jaros, lay in their beds in deep sleep, were awakened by inhuman growls and terrified screams from their neighbors, some of whom were dying. They looked to one another and nodded. Grabbing their swords, they burst through the door of their hut and into chaos.

Some villagers were running from the invaders and some even tried to fight them off. The ones that chose to fight were not successful at all, they were dispatched with a single blow from clawed hands, the wounds deep and vicious. Bodies were strewn everywhere and there were blood smears on a few huts where hapless victims met their demise, most were killed in their huts before they could join the defense of Hapshire.

“They’re back, thought they only came every other year.”

Three Shikar noticed Conn and his father outside their hut as they lumbered through the village, wheeled and dropped what plunder they had in their large powerful arms.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just give me your general comments, has it gotten better/worse and if better, would you read on?

-Monolith-

[This message has been edited by Monolith (edited June 10, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Monolith (edited June 10, 2005).]


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Isaiah13
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quote:
The Shikar spilled out of the forest intent on getting everything they could from the village of Hapshire. It was a raiding party--twenty members strong, most of them carrying bags for what they looted. None of them carried weapons for they had large hands that ended in wicked claws the size of knives.

I think you could drop the "intent on getting everthing they could from the village." I can gather their intent from "raiding party" alone.
Perhaps: The Shikar spilled out of the forest and into the village of Hapshire. And then continue on from there.
Also: Mentioning that they are holding bags gives me a vision of Halloween. Plus, fighting while holding something might prove problematic. I would recommend leaving the bags behind until after the fighting.

quote:
Conn and his father Jaros, lay in their beds in deep sleep, were awakened by inhuman growls and terrified screams from their neighbors, some of whom were dying. They looked to one another and nodded. Grabbing their swords, they burst through the door of their hut and into chaos.

I would suggest simplifying the first sentence. It might be enough to just say that Conn and his father awoke to the sound of inhuman growls and terrified screams. Once you say "awoke" we will automatically know that they were sleeping. "Neighbors" can be dropped I think. I don't need clarification on who is doing the screaming. And I think that "some of whom were dying" goes without saying.

quote:
Some villagers were running from the invaders and some even tried to fight them off.

I would imagine that it is the men who are fighting, and that the women and children are the ones who are fleeing. If this is the case, I would mention it. The scene will have more of an emotional punch if we have details like that to focus on.

quote:
The ones that chose to fight were not successful at all, they were dispatched with a single blow from clawed hands, the wounds deep and vicious. Bodies were strewn everywhere and there were blood smears on a few huts where hapless victims met their demise, most were killed in their huts before they could join the defense of Hapshire.

I want to know what Conn and his father are doing. Could you perhaps weave these details in as we follow them through the melee?

That's all I got. Hope it helps.


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Monolith
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Well, for what's going on with Conn and his father follow in the next couple of paragraphs. But as it is right now, I have about 6 or 7 pages of this right now.

I want to get the opening done and done to a point where you (the reader) would keep going.

Is this close enough to keep reading or what more should be done?

-Monolith-


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Isaiah13
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The reason I said I wanted to know what Conn and his father are doing is because they are the only characters I have been introduced to. The other villagers are only that: other villagers. Nameless victims don't much matter to me. The only way you will get me to care is if you give me someone to care about. I would suggest keeping your focus on them, and weave the details in as you go.

[This message has been edited by Isaiah13 (edited June 11, 2005).]


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M_LaVerne
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I don't think a good story begins with a fight scene (unless it's a movie). I can't think of the last story I read that begins with the hero decapitating a "villian." Maybe by the end of the first chapter but certainly not in the 1st 13 lines.

Most fantasies begin in some kind of utopia that by the end of the first chapter has been threatened in some way. But not until we've had a party of some kind whether it be erstride or bilbo's birthday.

Anyway, the Shikar's guts don't keep me interested. I need something more about Conn...


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