posted
It didn’t take me very long in life to realize I was better off alone. By that I don’t mean solitude. I was enough of an outcast growing up. If I don’t have a certain amount of socialization during the day I become uncomfortable. Conversation is not a necessity. Just the fact that someone I know well is around satisfies me. It also occurred to me that if there was a woman I deeply cared about, I could never have her. Or if I thought she loved me, it was just a ploy. How women benefit from these types of mind games I’ll never know. I’ve had my heart broken so many times that even if a woman did truly care for me, there was no way I could bring myself to trust her. And I know this is odd, but our lives mold us into the monsters we become.
* I know its more than 13 in here, but I read post the first 13 lines of it as it is in the manuscript, 1 in margins, 12 point font like courier. I apologize if i did it wrong. *
posted
Hmm. well, maybe I did that right, doesnt look bad :-) I am looking for people insterested in reading the whole story and giving me feedback. I am aware of certain things I want to work out, but would like to see if people think the same or point out different things to fix. Thanks
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Yes, 13 manuscript lines, so you did it right.
It helps if you can give us a little more context - are you looking for readers for the whole thing, or just comments on this section? Is this the beginning of a story or a novel? What genre will you be working in?
At any rate, I hope your character does something more active than describe his psychology soon. I want to see him do something, not just talk about himself.
posted
ok well im looking for readers of the entire manuscript, its a novella 27,500 words or so. It would have to be considered literary fiction because it doesnt really fit in any other genre.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
ok i just assumed I had to post the first 13 lines, if you wanted i could post another 13 lines that might offer more action than the intro character setup thing, but honestly the intro isnt long, is interesting and doesnt take anything away from the story in my opinion. Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I'd need more of a hook than "I stay by myself." I'm a little distrustful of the narrator already (which is fine, except I don't think I'm supposed to be): he says he's always been a loner, and yet he's had his heart broken a lot by women. That's not something that happens when you're alone! It might happen to someone who has SINCE stayed alone.
posted
*huge grin* Honestly, I've never thought about it, but I dont know its something that I would want to change. Basically the story is based off of my life and how i felt at a specific time in my live. Honestly, you really cant get too much from the first 13 lines and I dont know if its enough of a hook, but everyone whos read it hasnt been able to put it down, so somewhere along the path it gets interesting, and to me, being a loner doesnt mean you are always alone, it just means you perfer being alone.
[This message has been edited by Killerkop (edited June 24, 2005).]
posted
It sounds as if you've already made up your mind about how effective your story is. I don't think I can help you with it. Good luck!
Posts: 1750 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I have to agree. I think two paragraphs of inner thought is just two paragraphs too many for a beginning. It would be better if we learned all this deep stuff later or better yet woven throughout.
Don't take this the wrong way, but when you post your lines you don't have to feel the need to defend anything you write. Just hear the people out and then think about what they're saying. Many of these writers are talented professionals, you could learn a lot from them if you just listen.
posted
well dont feel offend by me, i just have a really hard time taking crits of my work, its the closest thing to my heart, so even the slightest negative implications and I'm ready to fight for what I've worked on. Don't feel that I dont consider advice, because I do, and thats why I'm here. But on the same level, I dont feel I'm a no talent hack because someone doesn't like the first 13 lines out of a 27k word novella. But I do understand the reasoning.
[This message has been edited by Killerkop (edited June 24, 2005).]
posted
Any writer has trouble hearing they may be wrong about their work. But you've gotta get tough skin because the publishing world is shark infested waters. Just hang out and grow. No one here bites...much.
[This message has been edited by pixydust (edited June 24, 2005).]
posted
We've discussed previously how best to respond to critiques. The consensus (and an overwhelming one) was that there are two valid responses to a critique:
"Thank you"
"Please clarify such-and-such."
Argument, verboten. That said, you're under no obligation, of course, to follow any advice.
posted
well seems I may have bigger problems than taking crits at the moment. If my intro isnt good enough to hook any one into wanting to read my story, then getting crits of the novella will be a difficult task. *Sigh* this is not what I expected, and of course if no one reads it I dont know how else to start it. i thought it worked well, but I think the story as a whole was good, perhaps I'm wrong. This is why crits sucks, because I start doubting myself and my ablity when I'm a talented writer, and at 24 I think its quite a gift if I can just get the problems undercontrol and get on my way to where I want to be as a writer.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
The way to counter doubts is to write. In this case, rewrite
The specific problems with this narrator are that he a)lacks focus and b) is full of himself. The first makes it very difficult for the reader to feel pulled into the story, because there isn't any real indication that there will actually be a story. The second makes it hard to be sympathetic to the character, because...how do you sympathize with someone who's already so full of himself and his complaints?
With a first person narrator, the first thirteen lines should make it very clear what the story is going to be about, why the narrator is telling/writing the story in the first place. Also, you are under an additional constraint to look at everything and ask yourself "why would my character write that?" Because the reader will do that for sure. If the only apparent reason for the narrator to put a line in is to make an outright bid for pity or proclaim innocence or something like that, then the reader is almost certain to refuse to be "taken in". This is actually one of the strengths of first person fiction, but it is also a grave weakness if you don't exploit it correctly.
In this case, your narrator spends the first half page effectively telling us, "you probably don't like me and won't like my story." That may be accurate or not, the problem is that it is the wrong place in the story to make that point to the reader, unless you give us cause to disbelieve it. For instance, if your narrator were to say, "It's probably pointless for me to write about this, since nobody's going to read it." Then we would be sort of like "well, I'll show him."
It's a bit of a cheap trick, but it works remarkably well. The effectiveness wears off after a couple of pages, so by then you seriously want to have something interesting.
A bit of a related note, never turn to the audience and say, "I'm a talented writer." Don't do it with over-clever "writerisms", don't do it by slighting all non-writers/artists in your story, and certainly don't do it by turning to the audience, outside of the context of the story, and saying it flat out. The first two will affect the quality of your writing directly, writers who do that aren't talented, or at least they aren't using their talent. The last won't necessarily hurt your writing directly, but it will hurt your audience, both by hurting the individual people that like your writing and by shrinking the numbers of your audience as a whole. And even though it doesn't necessarily hurt your writing, taking that attitude does tend to limit a writer.
Now, it can work as humor...but jokes that no one else gets shouldn't be put in your writing.
posted
Personally I think your introduction shows that you are a good writer; however, from my point of view it doesn't grab attention.
The first few sentemces are interesting enough, but from then on it seems like the narrator is rambling, talking to himself, and while this would interest me if I already knew the person, as an introduction it sounds slow. Perhaps some action, dialogue, description...just something to take us out of the narrator's soliloquy.
I advise you to rewrite your introduction and either move this fragment (because I think it is important to your story) to another location, or work the gist of it into your narrative in another way.
Oh, and I was wondering, what type of novella is it? Fiction, I assume, but romantic or mystery or another kind? I might be interested in reading more. Your introduction gives enough information to intrigue me. Good work so far.
posted
Ok, well I want to apologize if anyone has found anything I said to be offensive, but I am a learning artist, and havnt had much practice with being critiqued, I just do not enjoy it. I'm here because I realize for my story to see the light of day there are things I do not see that must be fixed. I had no idea that my intro didnt work. But its funny the whole time i was reading your reply I was thinking about Chuck Palahniuk's book Choke. The first line is "If your going to read this, don't bother". and then I saw you said that if i said something like that it would work because the reader wants to prove you wrong, so maybe I have the right idea, just wrong execution, Well, like i said, I dont want to group the novella into any one genre, its literary fiction, and romance is a big part of it, but I wouldnt group it as romance, I think it would limit the audience to a smaller field, I could be wrong. Actually, what is now the intro used to be the start of the 3rd chapter, but I felt it was more cohesive to character development to get it going, but perhaps I'm wrong and should think about changing them back. But honestly though, this is something I'm going to have to work on for a while, because as it sits right now, I can't see it starting any other way. But thats why I'm here right?
Thanks to everyone for thier replies. I'm glad I'm getting such quick responses.
posted
Ok, here's my humble opinion: You have way too many "was"es Bring us into the present with your character instead of having us feel like we're looking back at things that have already happened. example: I am better off alone. Rather than "It didn’t take me very long in life to realize I was better off alone.
When you get to the part about women and their games, start right off with that. Something like - I never understood women and their mind games, but I've learned enough to know that love is a ploy. If I care about a woman, I can never have her. My heart's been broken so many times that I'll never be able to trust any woman again.
And last but most important, I think your opening line is in your last paragraph where you say our lives mold us into the monsters we become. With that statement you make the reader curious to find out what kind of a monster you've become and what in your life caused that to happen to you.
posted
thank you meenie, thats exactly what I was going for. But perhaps your right, perhaps the story should start our our lives mold us into the monsters we become, I totally believe that line holds the key to the start of the story. I'm glad someone else atleast agrees that that line carries weight with it, weither or not I have to rearrange its order. I understand my intro may not have as much impact as it may be able to have, but atleast the entire thing is not all for naught. Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Blessings on you, and be aware that I, at least, dont' think you're a no-talent hack whose efforts go for naught! And I doubt anyone else here thinks that. Getting critiqued is tough. Your writing shows promise, but it's not perfect. OTOH it's a heck of a lot better than my first story.
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
thank you very much. if anyone is interested in reading the whole thing and giving me thier opinion id very much apprechiate it, I want to get different opinions and see what needs work before I try to see if i can get an agent to help me get it published. (yes I know, publishing a novella as a stand alone isnt an easy task, but i want to try)
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Try reframing how you think about critiques. Right now you are defensive because I suspect you are feeling them as personal attacks on your very soul. It's very easy to come away from the experience feeling wounded when you approach it in that way.
Think about it as if you were building a boat and not a book. Imagine if someone came along and told you, "Say, boatmaker - I see a hole in your hull; you probably didn't even realize it was there." Once you examined the spot and came to the conclusion the observer was right, you would be grateful. It would be sad to take the boat out on the water, only to have it sink from a flaw you hadn't noticed.
The reality is that each and every one of us is myopic - we are emotionally attached to our writing, we are limited by our life experiences and we all have weak spots.
It's crucial to your growth as a writer learn to welcome critique and be grateful for them. You don't have to agree with the opinions, but a well-written critique will help you see your work with new eyes. You want to fix any flaws before launching your story in the shark-infested waters of publishing, don't you? Your critiquers are your best allies. They will help you polish your work to a shine.
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited June 27, 2005).]
posted
It helps to think of your manuscript this way:
You have this wonderful story in your head, but in order to recreate it in your reader's head, you have to try to put it on paper in the clumsy, imperfect words of a manuscript.
No collection of words on paper is going to be the perfect vehicle to convey your story to your readers. Words really are frustrating that way.
Critiquers look at those imperfect words and try to help you turn your manuscript into a less imperfect vehicle to convey your story.
Elan's analog of a boat is a good one, especially since a boat is a vehicle. It isn't the cargo (your story), it's the way you deliver your cargo to the reader.
Let feedback from critiquers help you strengthen and improve your vehicle so that readers can enjoy your story as fully as possible given the limitations of your having to convey it to them in words.
posted
Thanks for all the replies. I think one of my biggest problems in taking crits is that A) I have a poor self-image and B) I'm prone to depressions. So I hear negative comments about my work and immediatly im not worth anything anymore and blah blah blah. But its the path to growth, right. I'm wondering if anyone else here, based off the 13 lines feel the character is full of himself. I understand he rambles, because its like most of this was just me thinking back on life, but full of himself. I do not consider myself full of . . . myself. So I wonder if somehow i had so much confidence that this is a great story and it came across in the writing or what, let me know what yall think.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I didn't see any intro from you, maybe I didn't look back far enough? From the things you've said here, I am assuming you're a new writer - or at least new to putting your writing out for crits. And I know how that feels. This is your baby, you love it and want everyone else to love it too. It takes some time to learn to look positively at crits At first, they hurt your ego. But when we crit your story, we're trying to help you. Look up and see how many people responded to your story That's a good thing. That means that people saw something worth looking at in your 13 lines. Otherwise they'd just skip it. You said you didn't like the negative comments, but crits are positive!! It's a group of writers reaching out and offering help. Grab on, buddy! We all need lifesavers out here in this sea of ink! You're writing your story for people to read, right? It's the scariest thing when first you put that story out and hear from others on how it felt to read it! It's a hurdle you have to get past! Cause once you do, you will get so excited to hear these crits! Remember, no one can change your story but you. If you hear a crit you don't agree with, you don't have to listen. But the best advice you will ever get is to listen and study each crit before you decide. This is how we learn. We are all so close to our stories that we often don't see the problems they contain. The words sometimes flow out so fast and hard that it's difficult to keep up with them!! That's what we're here for. Learn to love your crits, you'll be glad you did! And I still think you have the hook you need in the last paragraph OH and you asked if we think your character is "full of himself", but I'm not sure what you mean by that. I see Survivor brought that up in his crit, but when I think of someone being full of themself, I think of someone who is brimming with confidence, someone who is fun and just bouncy. I see your character as very introverted and, yes he seems to have a hard time thinking outside of himself, but I wouldn't tag that as being "full of himself". He seems a bit depressed and down trodden. I think he has something to tell us and wants us to get all the background info so we understand it, but it's a little too much, too quick. We need to have an idea of what he wants to convey so we're grabbed into his world. That's why I think your last paragraph contains your hook - your better opening. Try it Meenie
posted
well I'm not good at providing information unless asked specific questions :-P but I put up an intro, i meant to, but the idea of hearing good things about my first 13 lines or overall story blinded me, so if i broke a rule, um its ok now, cuz I've seen the light, thanks meenie. And thanks to everyone who's replied so far.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
BTW, I'm wondering if any of you guys use YIM. I wouldn't mind having a few fellow writers on my list. my nick is killerkop, anyone who's interested in chatting.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2005
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