posted
I hate Chaldean, thought Adrien Bayne as he pored over the ancient document on the table before him, compulsively chewing on the end of his pencil. The scroll was a treatise on aquatic life of the Red Sea, which could have been an interesting topic under different circumstances. Adrien, however, was chagrined to once more be dealing with Chaldean, the language holding the dubious honor of being the most cumbersome he’d ever seen, which was no trivial feat for such a ravenous polyglot. He’d been testy since his department manager at the Library of Congress had stuffed him back down in the basement labs, but this latest text was having another, far more disconcerting affect on Adrien: he was dreaming again.
-This is the start of a project that's been growing, evolving, even mutating in my mind for the last few years. I'm finally wrestling my disparate thoughts into something cohesive, and I'd love your opinions
The scroll was a treatise on aquatic life of the Red Sea, which could have been an interesting topic under different circumstances. Adrien, however, was chagrined to once more be dealing with Chaldean, the language holding the dubious honor of being the most cumbersome he’d ever seen, which was no trivial feat for such a ravenous polyglot.
Which definition for ravenous are you using? I'm not sure I understand what it has to do here. Like where the MC is, but I find it slightly wordy. I would read this, though but it doesn't grab me. I have to concentrate too hard on your intent.
posted
There are some gems in there, but all in all it seems a bit wordy. It's hard to get past the beautiful prose to see the core underneath.
The best example of this is the following sentence: "Adrien, however, was chagrined to once more be dealing with Chaldean, the language holding the dubious honor of being the most cumbersome he’d ever seen, which was no trivial feat for such a ravenous polyglot." It's ironic that he's talking about the language being cumbersome, when the sentence itself is thick and ponderous.
posted
Thanks for the input, and the compliments. I know that I'm rather verbose when I write, but my problem is that I don't like what comes out when I try to scale it back. I suppose I'll just have to resign myself to only appealing to an intelligent crowd Posts: 8 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I agree with what has been said before. What is written seems unnatural. It doesn't make you look intelligent when you use overly large words, it makes you look like an immature author trying to hard for the readers approval. You say it's hard too write without using big words? That's what practice is for.
[This message has been edited by The Fae-Ray (edited February 02, 2006).]
I'm not all that intelligent, but I liked it. It does not seem like the first 13 lines of a chapter, though. It seems like it is later in the text. We don't have to know why the protagonist hates Chaldean, but I think we do need to have some context to understand him a little better before we dig into maps and languages and the like. If it is intended as the intro to a chapter, my feeling is that the first sentence would have to be re-worked.
posted
I apologize if my prior comment led anyone to believe that I was attempting to sound elitist or condescneding in any fashion, as that was not my intent, just my dry sense of humor. I also don't want to give the impression that I write the way I do in order to sound "intelligent". I write the way I write, and that's about all I can say. I appreciate everyone's continued comments and criticisms. Thank you.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I almost never respond to a F&F post with "new member" on the name. I want to make sure the person will stick around for awhile. In your case--well, you introduced yourself last March, right? And then you posted one critique, and now this. It looks like your sticking around, but I wish you would post more often. So take this as encouragement to be more active here. I'm sure you have a lot to offer.
One other point before I begin: Thank goodness you put a smiley after your "intelligent crowd" comment. Even so, I feel like you were skirting insult. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way--hence the smiley--but when you've just gotten a bunch of comments saying to tone down the language, responding that way sure sounds like you're calling a lot of people stupid. Just be careful, okay?
Regarding this 13 lines: really, I thought the writing was just fine. In terms of phraseology, I would only suggest one improvement: "...was chagrined to be dealing once more with..." rather than "...was chagrined to once more be dealing with...." (I'm not, I don't think, overly fussy about split infinitives for their own sake--but usually, as in this case, they actually sound better kept together.)
However, that little problem is rendered moot by fixing a more serious one: unnecessary repetition. Since we already know he hates Chaldean, you could just start that sentence with "Chaldean, however, held the dubious honor...." That would have the added benefit of trimming the sentence that most people seemed to have trouble with.
The biggest problem I had with this wasn't what was wrong with it, but with what wasn't right. In particular, it didn't do enough to interest me. There is a slight hook at the end, but it's minor, since we don't know anything about the dreams yet. I'd read on, but I don't know if I would were I a slush pile editor. Does Chaldean have anything to do with the dreams, by the way? Cause if it doesn't, you're kind of wasting our time going on about it. If it does, though, it's appropriate. And I think that if we find out more about the dreams quickly, and they're sufficiently intriguing, you're probably ok with this.
[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited February 03, 2006).]
I would first like to thank you for understanding my attempt at humor, and shall once again apologize to anyone who may have taken offense. I would also like to thank you for offering the suggestions you did, and have incorporated them into something that I feel is a better paragraph. Ah, the wonders of an outside perspective
Here's the rewrite:
I hate Chaldean, thought Adrien Bayne as he pored over the ancient document on the table before him, compulsively chewing on the end of his pencil. The scroll was a treatise on the aquatic life of the Red Sea, which could have been an interesting topic under different circumstances. Adrien was an insatiable polyglot and held a deep love for the written word, but he was chagrined to be dealing once more with Chaldean, which held the dubious honor of being the most cumbersome language he’d come across. He’d been testy since his department manager at the Library of Congress had stuffed him back down in the basement labs, but this latest text was having another, far more disconcerting affect on Adrien: he was dreaming again.
posted
I don't see much of a change in anything but format. I have to agree with PMoore and rickfischer. Where's the beginning exactly and what are we leading up to? I might go into the dream first and then say that he was supposed to be reading this ancient text which is apparently boring. Why is he finding is boring though if he's 'ravenous'? I'm taking it to mean that he loves to decipher anything he can get his hands on. Yet he's dreaming. I want to be interested in this. I do see a conflict, that he wants to be out of the basement, but doing what I don't know. I hope this helps.
Posts: 341 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
My intention is not to imply that Adrien is bored, exactly, but that he's annoyed at the hassle inherent in translating this specific language. Also, I replaced 'ravenous' with 'insatiable' to change the feel a little bit, but maybe that didn't work.
I do plan on inserting numerous snippets from Adrien's dreams throughout the book, but felt it would be too jarring to start with a dream and then jump to reality. And I just noticed that "he was dreaming again" could be understood as he's dreaming right there while reading, which was also not my intent. I mean it to say that he's dreaming when he sleeps. The dreaming thing gets elaborated over the next couple paragraphs, so I'm not sure how much to say about it in the first...
I'm not sure if I should keep the line about him chewing on his pencil. I like it as a quirky habit, but it may be excess. Thoughts?
So I've made a few minor tweaks, as printed below, and I'm very interested to hear any advice you guys might have, and maybe now that my intentions are known pointers might be easier.
I hate Chaldean, thought Adrien Bayne as he pored over the ancient document on the table before him, compulsively chewing on the end of his pencil. The scroll was a treatise on aquatic life of the Red Sea, which could have been an interesting topic under different circumstances. Adrien was an insatiable polyglot and held a deep love for the written word, but he was chagrined to be dealing once more with Chaldean, which held the dubious honor of being the most cumbersome language he’d come across. He’d been testy since his department manager at the Library of Congress had stuffed him back down in the basement labs instead of giving him the field promotion he’d been hoping for, but this latest text was having another, far more disconcerting affect on Adrien: he was having dreams again.
posted
I'm mildly hooked, but this may not be good news. The "mildly" is because, well, somebody's in a basement studying, and even he's bored and daydreaming. Doesn't interest me. The hooked may be just for those with my particular interest: I want to know *why* Chaldean is a monster. Is it the writing system? (I hope not -- I won't believe it. Nothing compares with Sumerian.) Is it the grammar? Hard to beat American Indian languages for complexity, but maybe Chaldean makes it.
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Chaldean is somewhat of a hodgepodge of Sumerian remnants mixed with provincial dialects of Babylonian (which of course grew out of Sumerian) and Aramaic. The "alphabet" for Chaldean has numerous easily confused characters, and the language is rife with the same grammatical subtleties you'd find in Sumerian. Basically, it's the worst parts of the original languages of Asia Minor that were pieced together by a fringe Babylonian tribe.
I didn't feel going into that much detail was needed or even really desired by the average reader, but I thought I'd post here for a fellow linguistic enthusiast
posted
EbonRose, I wasn't hooked by your opening but was intrigued and might become more engrossed depending what is offered next. I liked Susannaj's idea of switching the order. It just seemed a better flow, IMHO.
One thing I did stumble over in both versions was your phrase that Chaldean was the most cumbersome language he had "seen"... <and> ...the most cumberson language he had "come across". Would using either "interpretted" or "translated" give a more concise description of exactly what he was doing?
The second re-work still seems to be occurring later in the chapter. I can't see it as beginning a chapter. I like it, though, as I said above, and the re-write no less than the original. The man is taking on a complex task about which he has complex feelings. That in itself is interesting, and could be compelling in the correct context, but remains insufficient, IMO, as the basis for beginning a chapter.
Chaldean sounds like fun. I wish I were still young - I'd give it a try.
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