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Zoot
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SF/Fantasy length undetermined. Any comments welcome, not looking for a crit on the full piece yet as its still very rough. I've been trying to get my first few paragraphs nice and tight..is there a hook here? I'm wondering about POV problems, too...

As far as Edlan could see, there were two ways to leave the Mariner's Freehouse tonight. One: via the door with his pride a little dented. Two: through the closed window with his face caved in.
Grim the inn-keeper was clearly a thieving swine. And Edlan wagered he was a damn sight better bar brawler than he was a card player.
'Gaming tax?' He echoed quizzically. 'That's nearly seventy five percent of my winnings.’
'Tax on foreigners is levied higher, I'm afraid,' Grim said. He didn’t look or sound afraid.
The man was not so tall, Edlan noted, though what he lacked in height he more than made up for in width. He had anvil-shaped

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited July 28, 2006).]


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Elan
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A couple of mechanical things:

"Grim the inn-keeper was clearly a thieving swine..."

This needs some punctuation: "Grim, the inn-keeper, was clearly a thieving swine..." By setting the word "Grim" off with commas, we realize you are using the word as a name and not as a description of his mood.

..."And Edlan wagered he was a damn sight better bar brawler than he was a card player."

I'm not sure if this means Grim or Edlan is the better bar brawler.

I'm not hooked, but it may be just me. I'm not much for brawling in tavern stories. It seems a bit cliche'd for my tastes. However, on the other hand, I think you've done a good job establishing the setting and the scene.



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ken_hawk
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There is a little bit of a hook as it introduces conflict right from the beginning. We already know something is going to happen but we don't yet know what that will be. One thing I noticed wasn't a huge deal, but where it says the part about his anvil shaped head the word "an" should probably be in front of the word anvil. I don't know how you were trying to portray Edlan but he seemed somewhat of a wimp when it said he wouldn't be fighting the inn keeper. To make it a bit more suspenseful and create a little bit of a stronger hook, I'd suggest escalating the situation to where the possibility of a confrontation with the inn keeper is still possible instead of saying he wouldn't be fighting anyone that night. It kind of seemed like the inn keeper might be trying to intimidate Edlan into giving him the money as a "tax" and in reality there is no tax. Was that the situation with the tax that Grim was talking about? If it were and the possible confrontation were esclated a little bit I think that this opening would be much more gripping.
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Novice
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This may just be me, but I found "...with his face caved in" too contemporary for a piece dealing with inn-keepers. "Inn-keeper" feels pre-technology to me, while the phrase has a modern hyperbole feel.

In the first bit of dialogue, you should change the "he" to a name, so the reader is certain who has just said " 'Gaming tax?' "

This fragment lacks tension, because I don't know Edlan yet. I don't have any way to know how he would normally react to such a situation, so I don't know whether or not his current dilemma is serious or commonplace. Maybe he gets in bar fights every night. I don't know why he was in the bar, gambling, and I don't know if I should hope he gets away unharmed, or hope he gets a well-deserved beating. I haven't been told much about his physical appearance...I know his opponent is big and sturdy, but would Edlan be a legitimate threat to the inn-keeper? I think you've started too far into the story, and you are going to be forced into a flashback soon, which will destroy the suspense and excitement of the flight-or-fight scene you are trying to build.


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oliverhouse
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Ditto the others.

I like what you've done with the setting, and with the characterization as far as it goes. I know I'm going to read about a fight (or the evasion of one), and I know the POV character is calculating the odds.

But what makes this fight different from others? Why does getting cheated matter to the MC (besides the obvious)? Why are they cheating him? What thoughts (besides the obvious) does the MC have about running or fighting? What makes these characters unique?

I'm not looking for an infodump, but just a hint that this was an _unusual_ cheat/fight/whatever would help. Maybe I'm not expressing myself well; if you don't see what I mean, I'll try to reformulate.


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Survivor
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I like it.

You do have a problem with pronoun usage, and some of your conjunctions could be revised. But overall I think that the intent of the text comes across very strongly despite minor mechanical flaws.

I think that he's in a situation where there's clearly a lot of question as to whether Edlan can appease his way out of a fight. The ridiculous "gaming tax" is an obvious pretext. If he simply pays it, Grim will just come up with something else. If he simply refuses to pay it, he'll have to fight. So Edlan needs to persuade Grim that a fight won't benefit him.

That much seems clear to me, and I suspect it's clear to you as well, but it seems something needs to be done to make it a bit more clear to other readers.

Still, I liked it.


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Zoot
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Thanks for all your commments - most helpful as always.

The scene does escalate in the next few paragraphs, and any questions the reader may have about why the MC is partaking in gambling and brawling I have hopefully answered with a short piece of introspection - no flashback here! As for the confliction between the use of the pre-technological term 'inn-keeper'and the modern hyperbole of somebodies face being 'caved in', this is deliberate as the age is actually post-technology, but perhaps it too jarring.

Would anyone be willing to look at the first chapter when its finished please? Hopefully this will be by the end of the week. I will gladly reciprocate the favour.

[This message has been edited by Zoot (edited July 26, 2006).]


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ken_hawk
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Sure Zoot, I'll read the first chapter. Email it to me at Ken_Hawk00@hotmail.com

-Ken


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AlleyPat
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Since you're not looking for a crit, I'll just say that yep, I was definitely hooked on it. Good stuff.
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Survivor
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Sure.
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Zoot
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Thanks to all those that commented on this previously, especially Survivor and KenHawk who agreed to take a look at the first chapter - unfortunately both your ISP's are blocked from my terminal at work and I don't have a computer at home.

Anyhow, after reviewing your comments and others outside of this forum I've decided to start from a completely different place in the story...your thoughts please, is there more of hook this time round? any comments welcome.

Mister Crater had heard stories about people that died in stasis. Or at best, woke up old and frail due to shoddy technology, the best part of their lives having ebbed away in the long cold night.
With the storage bank charges he paid, though, he didn’t expect this to happen to him. He was a blue chip account holder at Perpetual Genubank- they were a professional time-subversion outfit.
Nevertheless, as the stasis field collapsed, he lay there on his back in the darkness of the storage chamber, listening for signs of life beyond the walls. A minute passed, maybe two, before the first inkling of paranoia manifested itself – had he overslept his own lifespan? Was he destined to an eternity of sensory depravation in purgatory?

[This message has been edited by Second Assistant (edited August 24, 2006).]


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wbriggs
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But I still wanted to comment on the first!

So I will. I had a devil of a time getting through the first sentence, understanding what you meant -- that option #2 meant somebody would throw him through a window.

After that, though, I was hooked.

On this one:

I would keep reading, but I do think it could be improved: I feel distant from the MC. I think it's because he's thinking calmly and rationally about being trapped and dying! You say paranoia is seeping in, but I don't see it.

If this is like waking up, maybe he could start out half-awake, then realize that something was wrong, and start to panic.

If it's not, maybe he could be disoriented, thinking that he hasn't been in stasis yet (after all, how could he know?), wonder why it didn't work, then start to panic when he gets some clue that things are different.

Or if you don't want panic: what *would* be his emotional response? Why would they let people die in stasis tubes? Maybe they wouldn't. Maybe he's annoyed from feeling inconvenienced.


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Survivor
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You can't send mail to yahoo accounts? What about hotmail?

Anyway, this second possible opening is interesting, but very opaque. I'm guessing that the general idea is a form of time travel where the consciousness of the traveler is sent back to inhabit his own previous body. But that's pretty much a wild shot in the dark, this is just too confusing at too many levels.


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Zoot
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Nope, they've blocked my hotmail & yahoo - damn Nazis. Apparently I'm supposed to come here to work or something

Anyhow, Survivor, your way off the mark, guess this still needs a lot of refining. I had the idea of people using cold sleep as an investment scheme (amongst other things) - like invest X amount now and subvert 50 years in the blink of an eye, collecting half a centuries accrued interest in the process.

Wbriggs, thanks for your input also. I think you've pointed out what was bothering me about this piece.


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Survivor
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The problem with that is that the possibility of doing this would automatically tend to depress the interest/inflation ratio enough to make the scheme unprofitable. Basically, if all the capital ends up locked in low-risk investments, that prevents the economy from growing sufficiently to support the sleepers.

Also, cold sleep creates severe problems with competency and power of attorney arrangements. Not that people wouldn't do it anyway, but you couldn't plausibly do it for profit.

That's all a sidebar. I felt that the last couple of lines definitely excluded the idea that this could simply be some kind of cold sleep.


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