posted
This is something relatively new, that I would like an opinion on. Please give me your thoughts and impressions, as well as whether or not you would consider reading the rest of the story!
I put in the first 13 sentances...I hope that was right...
I am a ghost. Now, I'm not talking your garden variety, half-formless vapor, maoning and wailing in endless spiritual torment; I mean a real, live ghost. Well, maybe not live, but you get my meaning.
I am tangible and visible, which the other ghosts tell me is due to sheer force of will, and can become invisible and intangible with some concentration. That, by the way is QUITE an experience, I'll tell you, and completely unique, according to the other ghosts, for whom the opposite is the norm.
I look very much the same as I did when I was alive, at least, that's what I think. My friends and family seem to think I look as I did when I was younger, and healthy; I don't really see the difference. It brings to mind what Morpheus said in the Matrix about residual self image. I guess I'm a bit deluded, eh?
[Edit by 2nd Asst.: 13 sentences is not quite right. It should be 13 lines in manuscript format. You can use the size of the posting box to see if if fits (actually, the box has fourteen lines to allow you a few words to finish the sentence).]
[This message has been edited by Second Assistant (edited August 23, 2006).]
posted
I would definitely read on. I really like the words you've written, but there seems to be an overabundance of commas. I would double check the need for them. I read once about using commas, "If you're not sure you need it don't use it."
I may be the least qualified member of the forum, but if you'd like a reader, I would really like to read this.
Oh, btw, I agree with cll about the Matrix line. I don't know what Morpheous(?) told Neo about residual self image.
(Edited to add the Matrix comment)
[This message has been edited by Wayne (edited August 23, 2006).]
posted
I think that's more than 13 lines on the Hatrack formula.
The voice is consistent and well developed, and the idea is intriguing enough that I would probably read on.
But it's a lot of introduction and no real hint of a story. OK, maybe the story is how the MC learns she became a ghost and actually manages to remember what she's told, but... I'm not convinced.
Good touches, but in a short story, I'd really want to be getting a storyline coming up pretty soon.
posted
It's the norm for the other ghost for them to have a make-up opposite the MC-ghost. The other ghost are always intangible/invisible, but can become visible by by concentrating. The MC is always visible/tangible, and can become invisible by concentrating. Opposites, right? I'm pretty sure I understood...
posted
The voice is easy to follow amd engaging, but nothing has happened. There's plenty of time to give this information after I find out what the conflict is.
Posts: 329 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I agree with Ray - there was no conflict, but I am sure that would be made apparent in the next few para's. I like the voice, and as for comma usage or misusage I suffer from that at times..even after readng "Eats,Shoots,Leaves" (Albeit a little better since).
Would I read on, most certainly the pace has a nice rythm to it - well done.
Unfortunately I can't critique it - I have a new pup to train and a deployment upcoming.
posted
I also love the concept, especially the opposite qualities of this ghosts from other ghosts.
Need to run spell check though.
I will gladly read rest of it. I could actually picture the story in my mind, which I cannot do unless the writing is clear. This is one main way I can judge whether or not I want to continue reading. If it takes me a few pages to get a clear pic. I don't continue.
I am curious: Is the character a male or female? Did character die older than he/she now appears to family? I am assuming family members know he/she is dead?
posted
Cool! Thanks for the replies and advice. As far s the Matrix line, does anyone think that if I added a brief description of what was said, it would work? I'm kind of leaning toward deleting it myself, since not too many of the FANS remember what I'm talking about, so that kind of kills the meaning of the line. That, and when I think about it, it doesn't really fit with what I'm trying to get at.
The conflict/storyline really SHOULD start either at the end of the first 13 lines, or very soon after, I agree. I'll have to go back and make some more modifications. When I'm satisfied with the rough draft, I'll send a copy to anyone willing to read/edit/critique.
Oh, and thanks for the positive feedback! I means a lot>
posted
"Residual self image" is fairly self explanatory. I remember the line and the context (first time Neo enters the construct, he's surprised to find he has hair and clothes and all his little implants are gone). Not everyone will get every reference you put into your story. If it tells us that this person was a fan of the Matrix, then leave it in. But if you don't mean to tell us that, then take it out. That should be your criterion.
So far, you manage to make being a ghost sound pretty prosaic. Not quite boring, but close.
posted
Is prosaic a good thing or a bad thing? lol
I DO want the character to make it sound like a fact of life. I also kind of wanted to get that semi-creepy, semi-cool, totally wierd and unusual vibe going, too. Have I begun to give you a little of that?
I've written several different approaches to the story, and I've finally found one I think I can continue with. (Writing in first person is a lot harder than I expected...I won't be doing it again, that's for sure) Would anyone be interested in reading what I have so far (it's not much yet, but it does show how I intend to proceed), and tell me if it works for you, the readers? I need to know your impressions on what the story is about (it's still only hinted at, but I want to see how good the hints are), and your thoughts and feelings about those impressions. I need to know if I'm getting across what I intend to, but I don't want to spoil your feedback with any preconcieved notions.
posted
I'm intrigued by that beginning and would probably keep reading, though with some trepidation.
Why?
1. Misspelling of "moaning"
2. A ghost who's opposite the norm... Uh-oh. Cliché warning—handle with care!
3. ALL-CAPS rather than italics for emphasis, a common beginner choice.
4. Where's the adjective for what the friends and family think about being able to see the ghost? Adding an adjective there will tell just how strange (or not) being able to interact with said friends and family is. As things stand, it could be either a creative fantasy world or a poorly-planned urban fantasy... At least, that's my impression from that beginning.
5. Comma choice. Your use of commas (example: between real and live) irritates me, so I'd be wary that your grammar use would irritate me enough to make me hate the reading of the story. Being aware that that's a lunacy on my part doesn't make me any less sensitive to it. (Just ask my friend who happened to be present while I read one of her favorite authors and had a lengthy monologue of why his comma splice technique didn't work the way he intended it to.)
6. Grammar errors. Speaking of comma splices, you have one. And The Matrix, since it's a film, should be capitalized and italicized thusly (if this is only a U.S. rule, someone please correct me).
On the positive side, I like the frank humor. But, to echo another reader, I have very little idea thus far of where the story is headed.
posted
Yeah, I an toatlly agree with misti's comments. You have to realize that I'm working on a notepad program because this new comp doesn't have Word (grrr). So, there is no italics or spell check option, and I TOTALLY agreed with the commas.
I've been having a hard time writing this, mainly because I'm trying to write it like someone is talking. I know you're not supposed to write how you talk, but this is a first person narrative...do you see my dilemma? That's why there are so many commas. But I went through and got rid of most of them, and I'll just repost the redone version here after this.
Keep the feedback coming. It's TREMENDOUSLY helpful!
posted
Okies, this is a little longer than the original 13, but it's essentially the same segment. I would like to try to get into what the story is going to be about, but anything I've tried seems to disrupt the flow...The direction I'm going in realy isn't that far past the first 13, but I really feel that moving it up will hurt it. Hopefully someone that reads it will be able to make a few suggestions! =)
I am a ghost. Now, I'm not talking your garden variety, half-formless vapor, moaning and wailing in endless spiritual torment; I mean a real live ghost. Well maybe not live, but you get my meaning.
I am tangible and visible - which the other ghosts tell me is due to sheer force of will - and can become invisible and intangible with some concentration. That, by the way is QUITE an experience, I'll tell you, and completely unique (according to the other ghosts, for whom the opposite is the norm).
I look very much the same as I did when I was alive. At least that's what I think. I died when I was in my early thirties. My friends and family seem to think I look as I did when I was younger and healthier; I don't really see the difference.
[This message has been edited by Second Assistant (edited August 24, 2006).]
posted
I think it should be ...and I can become invisible and intangible...
I think I prefer the reference to the Matrix in the first version to this long explanation. Those of us who don't get the reference won't admit it, and those who do will like it.
I believe you said this is a novel, and in the final version, I wouldnt worry too much about the 13 line limit. 13 lines for a hook is very arbitrary for a long work. I think 30 lines are more in keeping with reality. However, to get a critique in this forum, I think you should try and set the hook in the first 13.
I was hooked with the first version a little deeper than this one, only because of the residual image sidetrack. Somebody said in an earlier reply - Survivor, I think - that "residual image" suggests a meaning on its own, anyway.
posted
Comments noted. Making repairs! he he he. I didn't like the explaination, either. I liked the original version, too.
I'm not sure how to add more excitemenet to the first thirteen lines, but a little further down the first page, it gets into some of what happened when she came back. I mean there's remeniscing about a real person's reactions (what I think a real person would react like anyway) to her return, as well as her witnessing her own exhumation. So I hope that's not too boring!
I do need to keep it going at a fast pace though. This is really not intended to be a novel. This is going to be a short story, so if there's a problem with the first 13, I need to fix it.
posted
I had your post mixed up with someone else's. Sorry about the thing about 13 lines. I'm old.
I think you're fine with these 13 (minus the aforementioned definition), but then I'm easy. I'd be interested in what Survivor, wbriggs or some of the other good critics I've read on this forum have to say on that subject. They have a much better eye and ear.
[This message has been edited by Wayne (edited August 26, 2006).]
posted
It's hard to say how you should add more intrigue to the opening, because I don't know anything intriguing about this character yet.
For example, if you told me that she died months ago but nobody noticed yet because she buried her own body in the backyard and has gone on pretending to be alive, that would be pretty dang interesting. But I don't know if that's in your story. It probably isn't. You could go just with the information you've got so far, but you need to make it sound like the character finds this interesting. No, not just "interesting", but shocking or troubling or exciting.
posted
Survivor, you have the patience of a saint.
What I really need to do is to get the whole storyline down on paper, and then flesh it out. I'm really struggling with my ADD recently, so rather than trying to simultaneously continue with the story and rewriting the beginning, I need to lay it all out in a straight line so I can see where I'm going.
Any further/new comments and suggestions are always welcome, and I have recorded everything everyone has said and will record any new info. For now though, I'm going to leave the beginning as it is. revisions will be saved for later. (don't stop making suggestions! They really do help.)
posted
Keep in mind the Wachowski brothers, who wrote The Matrix, did not invent the concept of residual self-image.
Wikipedia says this about the concept:
quote:Residual self image is the concept that individuals tend to think of themselves as projecting a certain appearance. In psychology, use of the term is often linked with periods of radical transformation, in which a person may still see themselves as occupying their pre-transformative role - for example, a soldier returning from a war may have a difficult time remembering that he has become a civilian, no longer in uniform, and not accorded a treatment based on his rank. Similarly, some persons suffering from depression tend to cling to unrealistically harsh self-assessments.
The term was popularized in fiction by The Matrix, where persons who existed in a digitally created world would subconsciously maintain the physical appearance that they had become accustomed to projecting...
It has since been applied in this sense to ghosts (who have no corporeal form, but maintain their appearance because they still think of themselves as appearing as they did in life), and to similarly deceased Jedi who continue to manifest themselves in Star Wars.
I like the presentation of the idea of residual self image, but I agree, the reference to a popular movie DATES the writing, as well as yanks us OUT of your story as we think about seeing, or not seeing, the movie.
I don't care so much that the first three paragraphs are all about the ghost describing himself/herself. I think about it as a POV issue... would any character really ramble on that much about how they LOOK??? I think from the character's POV, he/she/it would be going into much more detail about how being a ghost affects the interactions with others, the real world, and what it ultimately means to the character to be caught in this ethereal body.
posted
Well, The Matrix was long enough ago (and important enough) to become an enduring cultural reference. Of course it dates the story, but no more than, say, having somebody use a cell phone.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Excellent input, Elan. I had thought that folks would want to know a little about what the character looks like. She's not real big on ego, and the mention in the beginning of the story is most likely going to be the only mention. I guess it's not very necessary, I just liked the reference, and it's an easier explanation for why she looks differently than she did in life, than the one I originally had in mind. The real reason won't be mentioned until much later in the story, if it's mentioned at all.
As for dating the story, that's no real problem, since the story is taking place a few years from now.
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