posted
I have changed the name of this story a couple of times. Now I am going without a title, as the story is taking a turn I didn't expect. Here is the first 13 lines. Please give me your feedback. Thank you.
-----
The evening sky was a hazy mix of orange-blue-green. The Planetary Conditions Bureau listed atmospheric conditions as moderate, but warned that it was dangerous for anyone to travel above ground without PCB approved shielding. Sara Blakely guffawed. No one with common sense went anywhere above ground without shielding. She glanced at the radio. The overhead tracking system followed her eye movement. She focused on the off control. The system went dead.
Taking a deep breath, Sara returned to entering test scores into the school’s database. She smiled and began humming “Some of my favorite things,” though she didn’t know the name of, or the words to, the tune. It was a tune that her grandmother hummed on happy occasions. Today Sara was happy.
[This message has been edited by cccolbert (edited September 10, 2006).]
I have posted a new version below:
For five years, Sara Blakely had taught at the Oliver Wendell Holmes School. All the students were bright, but Thomas Foley bordered on genius. The fourteen-year-old’s competencies had been noted before, but the test scores she was entering showed remarkable improvement. To Sara, it proved that her method of teaching produced better results. Taking a deep breath, Sara returned to entering the test scores into the school’s database. She smiled and began humming “Some of my favorite things,” though she didn’t know the name of, or the words to, the tune. It was a tune that her grandmother hummed on happy occasions. Today, Sara was happy. She glanced at the radio. The announcer mourned the murder of another teenage boy. No suspects were in custody. Sara focused on the off control and the system went dead.
[This message has been edited by cccolbert (edited September 10, 2006).]
[This message has been edited by cccolbert (edited September 10, 2006).]
This is always a danger with SF and Fantasy stories. You get so concerned with showing us how different your milieu is that you forget that it is commonplace to your character. It is an artform in and of itself to blend necessary exposition into the narrative.
The key thing to remember, since this is SF, is that almost nobody reading this is ignorant of any of the cool new ideas you're showcasing in your text. We don't need explanations any more than Sara herself would. For those few souls who would read this despite being disinclined to keep up with the latest new ideas about future technology, they don't want explanations of that technology. It's already available to them, and they haven't bothered to keep up with it.
So this isn't necessary exposition. You can cut all of it.
The POV issues are more complicated, as is usually the case.
posted
The story starts with "today Sara was happy."
Why? Who is telling me this story? Why do I care she is happy?
You might want to "delete" what you have here and start your story with whatever your next 13 lines are. I suspect that the next 13 lines will answer many of the questions we are asking about the 1st 13.
What is interesting to me, is that you are asking the questions that I wished the reader to ask.
Why is Sara happy? The answer is in the next line.
What, is 13 so magical that the reader will say "13th line, can't read anymore!" What, will the the eye not move to the next line and the brain say, "ah ha! There it is?"
Why should you care? Hmmm... good question.
Info dumping? No, scene set-up.
I know, we were advised to simply accept what people say and learn from it; I have stopped, digested, and asked, "what did I as the author 'want" to do in the these first lines. My answer is in the questions you ask.
You speak of POV... what, should all stories be from the same POV? Is the third person, omnipresent, POV not allowed?
I do thank you for your comments, because without knowing it you have encouraged me to move forward.
posted
In my opinion, you're rejecting a lot of good data here. You should capitalize on the criticism rather than be hurt by it.
Bear with me for a moment while I explain.
> What is interesting to me, is that you are asking > the questions that I wished the reader to ask.
Sure, but you don't want the reader to be asking, "why doesn't the author tell me this?" There's a difference. By the time they're consciously asking that question, you've already annoyed them. You want them to have the information right when they need it.
> Why is Sara happy? The answer is in the next line. > > What, is 13 so magical that the reader will say "13th line, > can't read anymore!" What, will the the eye not move to the > next line and the brain say, "ah ha! There it is?"
Exactly.
Because the first 13 is the first page of a short story manuscript sent to an editor. If they're not buying what you're selling by the end of those 13 lines, it's very likely that they won't turn the page.
The eye will literally not move to the next line, because it's easier and more psychologically gratifying and, honestly, more productive if they instead shove a form rejection into your SASE and move on to the next envelope in the slush pile.
If you didn't know that before, then that's a critical piece of information to learn.
> Info dumping? No, scene set-up. [...] > I know, we were advised to simply accept what people say > and learn from it;
For good reason, and by lots of people who have done this for a long time. It's not easy to do, but the best do it.
Take the information that you're getting from readers and accept that this is their reaction, even if you have ways that you could explain it away.
The reader doesn't know everything that's going on in your head, so even though you're (say) setting up a scene, the honest feedback you're getting is that they feel like they're being infodumped on. Find a way to get them the information without making them feel infodumped on, and you've made a tremendous improvement to your writing.
Anybody can write something that makes sense to them. But getting through to someone who has no idea what's going on in your head? That's a writer.
> You speak of POV... what, should all stories be from the > same POV? Is the third person, omnipresent, POV not allowed?
No, it's fine; but like any POV, it has to be established. To me, as a reader, who didn't know up front that you were in 3rd omni, your line about "My Favorite Things" startled me -- up until that point, I thought you were in 3rd limited.
But you can only gain something from that important datum if you accept that what the reader perceives is more important than what the writer intends.
I hope you continue to write, and as unlikely as it may be, I sincerely hope that your stories outlive the Bard's. I think that one step on the way to that goal is to understand how to capitalize on criticism.
Regards, Oliver
[This message has been edited by oliverhouse (edited September 05, 2006).]
quote: I do thank you for your comments, because without knowing it you have encouraged me to move forward.
Actually, we do know it and are actively encouraging you to move forward with it. We critique to help other writers figure out the difference between how it sounds in thier head (always great because you know the other stuff that's not yet on paper) v. how it sounds to us (who have no concepts about the work other than the first 13).
Most people who critique are trying to help you improve on what you are doing.
quote: What is interesting to me, is that you are asking the questions that I wished the reader to ask.
Actually, you don't want us asking those questions. At the end of the 13 lines I have no faith that I will get the answers because of the undefined POV and withholding of information. The scene you've painted is just too dull for me to read on. By the time I asked, "Why is Sara happy" I didn't have any curiousity about the answer.
The thing about the first 13 (please do read the discussions about it in Open Discussions) is that the reader is looking for a few things, which if he/she doesn't get will make them stop reading. These things are:
1) POV 2) Clarity 3) A character to care about or hate 4) An issue/tension 5) A basic ability to write - no run ons, etc. 6) A reason to turn the page.
If you don't have these things in the first 13, the story will, most likely, never make it out of the slush pile.
quote: Why should you care? Hmmm... good question.
If you can't answer that question, you probably need to rethink the story.
quote: Info dumping? No, scene set-up.
No, info dump. The difference between info-dumping and conveying necessary information is sometimes difficult to see and define.
Do I need to know, right this second, that the evening sky was orange-blue-green? No. Info dump.
Do I need to know that there is a Planetary Conditions Bureau? Not now. Info dump.
Do I need to know that it was dangerous to travel without PCB shielding? Not now. The MC is sitting at a desk undergraound entering test score. BTW - if she's underground how does she know what color the sky is?
Do I need to know Sara thinks anyone traveling without shielding is an idiot? Possibly. But now? I'm not sure.
"Gaffaw?" - have you actually seen some one do this? But you are building an image of her as a large, loud and uncouth person with the word- did you mean to?
quote: She glanced at the radio. The overhead tracking system followed her eye movement. She focused on the off control. The system went dead.
Okay I am willing to accept that I might need this information now but what is happening isn't clear enough. I assume that she has some computer program that reads her eye movements and takes action as a result but that is an assumption. It could be that there are evil robot monkeys that do her bidding. Just a bit of clarity would be helpful. Too much crosses back into the info dump.
All I need to know is that Sara somehow can control things around her with eye contact, she's underground entering test scores into some computer and she's happy. Everything else isn't something I need to know now and is quiet possibly a POV violation.
Speaking of which . . .
quote:You speak of POV... what, should all stories be from the same POV? Is the third person, omnipresent, POV not allowed?
Of course it is, but you have to set it up. Right now the section doesn't read with a clear POV. You aren't truely full omniscient yet. There are some helpful discussions (and a wonderful POV Chart) on the Open Discussions board. Look at them and try to clarify the POV voice.
quote:you are asking the questions that I wished the reader to ask.
The problem here is that you and your readers unfortunately want different things. You want them to be asking these questions, but they want the answers up front. Since you also want them to buy your book/story, you'd be well-advised to put their wants ahead of your own in this case.
quote:Why is Sara happy? The answer is in the next line.
You can tell me that here, but you won't be in the bookstore telling your potential readers. If they want to know that information before continuing, then you'd best give it to them.
quote:What, is 13 so magical that the reader will say "13th line, can't read anymore!" What, will the the eye not move to the next line and the brain say, "ah ha! There it is?"
Take courage in the fact that you are not the first person to ask that question. There actually are good reasons for this, however. Other people have suggested that you to read some threads on the subject - I agree, but will be nicer and give you some links.
The reader will only stick around to find out the answer if their interest has been sufficiently captured before this point. So it's important.
quote:Info dumping? No, scene set-up.
No, info-dump, I'm afraid. No one is criticizing you, but they are pointing out something that is often hard for the writer to see themselves.
Scene set-up is another way to say Setting. You're right, Setting is an important element to establish. On the other hand, there is Story, which is characters engaging in actions that propel the story. In your case, the Story element begins with Sara entering scores, or perhaps even later. In order to capture a reader's interest, these early lines have to have a greater percentage of Story than Setting. Both are necessary, but readers need a story to care about. No one cares about a setting.
quote:I know, we were advised to simply accept what people say and learn from it; I have stopped, digested, and asked, "what did I as the author 'want" to do in the these first lines. My answer is in the questions you ask.
I already commented on what you 'want' from these lines. As for the other, consider this: We aren't stodgy judges looking to criticize. Nor are we fellow writers who think we know more than you. We are your potential audience. We are people in bookstores looking for a good book or story. We are people choosing whether to continue reading your story or reject it and stick it back on the shelf. We're the people who will pay to buy your work, or spend our money elsewhere. We are the people for whom you are writing. Absorb that soberly, and then reconsider dismissing our feedback.
quote:You speak of POV... what, should all stories be from the same POV? Is the third person, omnipresent, POV not allowed?
You have assumed (rather defensively, I might add) that the feedback about POV was meant to badmouth your choice of viewpoint. That assumption was, of course, incorrect. What your potential readers are trying to tell you is that they didn't feel that you firmly and successfully established the POV in which you were writing. Your potential readers don't feel grounded in the POV. Ergo, you need to examine the POV for problems. The nice thing is that once you've removed the info-dumps, you free up more space to establish your POV.
quote:I do thank you for your comments, because without knowing it you have encouraged me to move forward.
We know, because we've been there. Every time we give feedback, it reminds us not to make the same mistakes ourselves. For my part, it does more than that - it makes me realize I've already made those mistakes and need to fix them. You're in good company.
[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited September 06, 2006).]
[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited September 06, 2006).]
posted
OK... I'll try it this way. Thanks for the feedback.
======================
For five years, Sara Blakely had taught at the Oliver Wendell Holmes School. All the students were bright, but Thomas Foley bordered on genius. The fourteen-year-old’s competencies had been noted before, but the test scores she was entering showed remarkable improvement. To Sara, it proved that her method of teaching produced better results. Taking a deep breath, Sara returned to entering the test scores into the school’s database. She smiled and began humming “Some of my favorite things,” though she didn’t know the name of, or the words to, the tune. It was a tune that her grandmother hummed on happy occasions. Today, Sara was happy. She glanced at the radio. The announcer mourned the murder of another teenage boy. No suspects were in custody. Sara focused on the off control and the system went dead.
[This message has been edited by cccolbert (edited September 10, 2006).]
posted
I do not disagree with any of the critiques you have received thus far, and wish to establish that fact firmly in your mind.
HOWEVER... the first paragraph did not annoy me. Have we not all been discussing the fact that the first paragraph is "free"? For me, it established context... it let me know we are dealing with a corporate-driven sci-fi world, and that we aren't in Kansas. It was brief, and not choked with info-dumping.
I agree that the word "guffaw" paints, perhaps, a different picture than what you were trying for. Most people don't guffaw, which is a loud explosion of laughter. I suggest something more subtle, like a snicker.
I also agree that we don't need to be "prepared" with all the description to find out what Sara is happy about. It's not worth trying to build suspense. Just tell us.
A nit... since Sara doesn't KNOW the origins, or the words to "Some of my favorite things," then the title of the song shouldn't even be mentioned. It's not in her POV. And, unless the song title has some bearing on the plot, it's totally irrelevant, and boring, information.
We get a lot of complaints about the "first 13." Don't shoot the messenger. The rule is in place for a lot of different reasons, and you will do yourself a favor by reading the linked threads offered to you above. But most importantly, it's not "our rule" but the law of the universe in which literary agents and editors apply to the submissions out of the slush pile. Do yourself a favor and read any one of the multitudes of blogs written by literary agents, like Miss Snark, or Evil Editor (Why You Don't Get Published). You will find they have a tendency to assign instant form rejections if the first 13 doesn't provide a hook. Notice I said "a hook." We need to be interested in your story by the time we come to the end of the first page.
So far, Sara isn't very interesting yet. Give us a hook, and her being happy isn't it.
quote:I have no way of knowing to which version of the story you are referring.
With the exception of the reference to your "first paragraph" my opinions do not depend on the version. But for the record, I prefer the first version. I prefer a short paragraph to establish millieu over a long paragraph trying to choke me with (too much) character development.
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited September 10, 2006).]
posted
We wouldn't want to argue with critiques, and I think we're edging toward it.
But as we edge away: I like that in the 2nd version, I know exactly what's going on. This is a Good Thing.
Now that I know what's going on, though, I find most of it uninteresting. I'm not hooked until paragraph 2, when I find there's a killer on the loose.
I predict that her star pupil will either be the victim or, more likely, the killer. I hope it's not that obvious.
You could get to the hook quickly in these ways (that I can think of): * Start when something's happening. Grading papers just isn't that interesting -- believe me, I know! That something woudl be related to the killer and Sara's attitude toward the situation. * Start with the star pupil -- but let us know Sara suspects. (Does she? We won't want her to be too slow to pick up on cues, if there are any.) * Say
The day Sara first saw/heard about/whatever the serial killer, she was grading papers.
So we get the hook (in that first "free" paragraph), and we still get to start with a scene of Sara grading papers.
You might also take someone's suggestion: drop Sara being happy; have her already struggling with something. Might be cool.
posted
Yes, Elan's right. It's perfectly ok to ask for clarification if it will help - because helping one another is what this is all about!
Also, there's the further complication of personal preference. Elan evidently has a different preference than some of the other responders. Nothing wrong with that. Your job, as the writer, is to decide which readers you are going to choose to appeal to. Maybe you decide to go with what the majority thinks, or maybe you are specifically targeting folks, like Elan, who like something else. Yes, it's confusing, but in the end it's your story and you can do whatever the heck you choose. Good luck!
posted
Hi there. Just want to tell you that you have the honor of having the first 13-line passage I'm going to critique here
Anyway, first of all, VAST improvement with the second passage - whomever you listened to to get that, his or her advice seems pretty good
I have a POV issue here when you say that she's humming a song she doesn't know but you still name what song it is. If it's from Sara's POV, well...she wouldn't know that she's singing "My Favorite Things." I would suggest maybe having her sing some of the lines in her head as she's humming, just enough to make it obvious to the reader what song she has in mind, or if it's not important what specific song she's thinking of, have something like "she's thinking of a song that reminds her of happy occasions, because her grandmother sung it on happy occasions."
Anyway, I would like to read the rest of what you have so far
Printer-friendly view of this topic
