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Author Topic: Fantasy with sci-fi element-short
Sara Genge
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Hi
This is a short fantasy story that begins in a sci-fi setting. Word count is 6500 aprox. For now, I only need crits on the first thirteen.
Thank you very much


When my family was exiled to New Amazonia, I was barely twelve and too young to understand the intricacies of inter-planetary politics.
I was not naive; my mother was an ambassador after all. Death by poison and kidnapping weren't uncommon among the children of the elite. Still, the Empire was all I knew. Although I understood its dangers intellectually, I still remember it with the distant fondness of a childhood memory.
It was January and the classes, which were normally taught outside, had been encased in glass for the winter. The last day I spent in the Empire, my mother came to fetch me from school. News of her demise hadn't broken out yet. The teachers greeted her with deference. There were rumors that she'd fallen from

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited September 12, 2006).]


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wbriggs
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Well, I'm hooked! I woudl definitely keep reading.

I think you could skip paragraph 2.

Paragraph 3 could do with a little rearrangment:

The last day I spent in the Empire, it was January...


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sojoyful
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I am also very hooked. That is a great first sentence.

I disagree with wbriggs about the second paragraph. It contained much of the particular hook that caught this fish. My only comment for the second paragraph is about the character's childhood naivete or lack thereof. The point-counterpoint phrases are: "I was not naive." and "Still, the Empire was all I knew." That's confusing for me - I think it's the way the counterpoint is worded. Are you trying to say that the character did know a few 'stark realities of life', but didn't know anything outside the Empire? Those don't seem like opposites to me.

I agree with wbriggs' rearrangement of the third paragraph. I was actually going to suggest the same thing until I saw he already had. If it were rearranged thusly, the paragraph would start with a much stronger follow-up hook.

There's the inconsistency of how the character's mother could pick him/her up from school if she is already deceased, but I suspect that's one of the fantastical elements of your story. I was confused enough for a momentary pause there, but would have continued reading because the strength of this opening overall had pulled me in.

The only other thing is the phrase "the classes...were encased in glass". Here is the image that conjured for me: Students sitting on the grass in a circle, with the teacher in the middle. Then a giant glass box with no bottom is lowered down over them so that they are now still sitting on the grass, but inside a greenhouse. It bumped me right out of the story for a second. Then again, maybe that's exactly what you were describing!

Oh, and just in case you were interested, I assumed that this character was female. Do I win a prize?

Overall, great. I would keep reading.

[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited September 12, 2006).]


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Rhynedahll
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There seems to be a disjunct between "When my family was exiled to New Amazonia, I was barely twelve and too young to understand the intricacies of inter-planetary politics." and "I was not naive;"

What is the link? When I read the first sentence, I expected something explanatory -- an example of some consequence of his lack of understanding.

"Death by poison and kidnapping weren't uncommon among the children of the elite. Still, the Empire was all I knew."

Also seems to be missing some data here between the two sentences.

"It was January and the classes, which were normally taught outside, had been encased in glass for the winter."

It may sound silly, but I get the mental picture of a bunch of kids screaming in a pickle jar.

"The last day I spent in the Empire, my mother came to fetch me from school. News of her demise hadn't broken out yet. The teachers greeted her with deference. There were rumors that she'd fallen from"

When I read "Demise", the first meaning that comes to me is death. With that being the case, this reads somewhat odd to me.

Also, does "news" break out?


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Sara Genge
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Thanks for the input.
One question: why is everybody assuming the MC's mom is dead? Is it the word "demise" that does this?
I agree that I need to invert the first two phrases of the third paragraph.
Oh, and kids sitting on the grass with a botomless glass room placed over them is exactly what I meant. Is the description too silly? Does it kill the tone?

[This message has been edited by Sara Genge (edited September 13, 2006).]


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Rhynedahll
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I think "demise" does convey the image that she is dead. I'm not sure the word has any other literal meaning.

When relating a scene that is outside everyday experience, as in this case of a protective covering enclosing the open air class room, I might suggest that you go into greater detail.

A brief description or reference for a scene that I know from my own experience usually suffices to allow me to build a mental picture, but an unusual scene has to be fleshed out in detail for me to get it.


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mommiller
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I defintitely agree with changing "demise," it means death according to my references.

Having a twelve-year-old understanding anything on this intellectual level seems a bit of a stretch to me, even though you do an excellent job in your writting of letting us know your MC is quite intelligent.

The first sentence is excellent, and only the second paragraph needs a few tweaks to get it humming along smoothly, as it is, it reads a bit garbled as to what is going on in this facet of the MC life. It does seem that she is looking back on what promises to be a rather traumatic upheaval of events that sort of gets lost on its way.

Good luck with it.


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kings_falcon
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Great job Sara!

I really liked it and most of my comments fall into nits or things to make it read smoother.

I agree that "demise" should be changed. I thought the mother was dead and then she arrived at the school. It threw me. I figured out that you meant she'd fallen from grace/position in the last sentance.


quote:
When my family was exiled to New Amazonia, I was barely twelve and too young to understand the intricacies of inter-planetary politics.

I really liked this. In one sentance you've summed up where we are and that the MC/narrator is looking back on events that occurred when she was 12. It also does a great job establishing her voice.

Instead of saying "I was not naive:" would something like "I was not truely untouched by those politics though:" work better? I think naive is the wrong word.

I have the same issue with a twelve year old "understand(ing) its dangers intellectually." Unless a friend had been kidnapped or killed, wouldn't she still have the 12 year old "well bad things happen to other people that I don't know and not me or my family" attitude?


quote:
It was January and the classes, which were normally taught outside, had been encased in glass for the winter.

I seem to be the minority here but I really liked the image. For me it wasn't that a bell jar came down over top of them, but that the sides of glass rose from the ground and formed walls and a ceiling.

Great start. I can't wait until the rest is ready to read. I'd be happy to look at it when it's ready.


Edit for typo.

[This message has been edited by kings_falcon (edited September 13, 2006).]


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sojoyful
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quote:
why is everybody assuming the MC's mom is dead? Is it the word "demise" that does this?
In a word, yes. I didn't pick up (as kings_falcon did) on the fact that she had fallen from position or grace. I read the word "fallen" and thought that was how she died - by falling off of or into something. You might try substituting another word. "News of her [decline, downfall, unseating, overthrow, etc.] hadn't broken out..."
quote:
Oh, and kids sitting on the grass with a botomless glass room placed over them is exactly what I meant. Is the description too silly? Does it kill the tone?
It is unusual enough that a reader will likely assume you meant something more commonplace like the classes simply going indoors, but were trying to be too flowery in your writing. As Rhynedahll suggested, a tad more detail to assure us that yes, that is actually the image you are trying to evoke, would be helpful.

[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited September 13, 2006).]


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Elan
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I liked it very much, although there are a couple of nits I have. You pack a lot of information into this, without overwhelming us. Good job!

I think the statement "Although I understood its dangers intellectually" is part of the wrong sentence. I think you should attach it to the previous statement that "Still, the Empire was all I knew." It is, after all, more of a comment on the Empire, rather than a comment on the memory. And the word "intellectually" seems over the top, particularly when you sort of have us placed in the kid's mind. It's also redundant. Chopping it down to "I understood the dangers" would suffice. After all, understanding is usually an intellectual process.

I am not fond of the sentence: "... I still remember it with the distant fondness of a childhood memory." I think it's because saying the MC remembers this makes the word "memory" redundant. Simplifying it to something along the lines of: "I still remember it with the distant fondness of childhood," or "The memory holds the distant fondness of childhood" would work better for me.

Since demise is most often equated with death, the misinterpretation is understandable. I thought it was a teaser, that rumor was breaking out that she was dead and her appearance at school BEFORE the rumor hit would work into a plot point. But if the word demise means "downfallen" here, then yes, I agree it should be changed.

[This message has been edited by Elan (edited September 13, 2006).]


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I need a good user name
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The only thing that I want to say is that I want to read more
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Sara Genge
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I think I'll change "demise" for "political demise"
I'll play with the rest to work your sugestions in and I'll post that when I have it ready. Thanks everybody and keep the comments rolling
Ryendall... what's a disjunct? Can you explain in detail. Thanks
quote:

There seems to be a disjunct between "When my family was exiled to New Amazonia, I was barely twelve and too young to understand the intricacies of inter-planetary politics." and "I was not naive;"

[This message has been edited by Sara Genge (edited September 13, 2006).]


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Sara Genge
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Just done editing.
Readers? I'll be forever grateful

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kings_falcon
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Send it to me!
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Sara Genge
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I've tried to adress some of the issues you brought up. Does anyone else feel that the modifications have killed the rythm in this fragment? I think it reads much worse aloud than the original.
I'll keep working on it.


When my family was exiled to New Amazonia, I was barely twelve and too young to understand the intricacies of inter-planetary politics.
I was not naive; my mother was an ambassador after all. Death by poison and kidnapping weren't uncommon among the children of the elite. We were taught about that early on. Still, the Empire was all I knew. Although I understood its dangers, I still remember it with the distant fondness of childhood.
It was January and the classes, which were normally taught outside, had been encased in glass for the winter. We sat on the grass in a parody of Summer while snow fell outside. The last day I spent in the Empire, my mother came to fetch me from school. News of her political demise hadn't broken


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mommiller
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I like this beginning better than your initial one with only a slight exception--I just don't like the very last sentence here at all and would omit it for now and place it further down your narrative.

Hope this helps.


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Wayne
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Don't lose the glass dome. I like it.

I didn't think the Mom was dead in the first version. If she were dead, how could she pick up her kid at school?

I agree with Mommiller about the last two sentences. Maybe they just need work, but they don't seem to fit there as it is.

(Edited to make it the last two sentences instead of the last)

[This message has been edited by Wayne (edited September 15, 2006).]


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sojoyful
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The changes are subtle, but effective. In other words, to answer your question, I think this is an improvement without losing the spirit of the original.

I'm still having trouble with the sentence, "Still, the Empire was all I knew." I wish I could say exactly why. It just doesn't feel like it opposes what comes before it.

quote:
...the classes, which were normally taught outside, had been encased in glass for the winter...
I know now why this bothers me. "which were normally taught outside" implies that this particular time is not normal, and therefore they are being taught inside. However, technically, they are not. They are still outside, but with a protective covering. Maybe rephrase as something like "...the outdoor classes had been encased in glass for the winter...".

Also, I think you could cut "in a parody of summer" without losing the meaning. It belabors the point.

I have too much on my plate at the moment to read more, but you should know that I definitely would read on.


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Silver3
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I think you could lose the "normally taught outside", and say something like "taught outside in summertime", or similar, if you want to imply that this encasing in glass is a yearly phenomenon.
The "demise" still bothers me slightly, though.
Otherwise, I'd read on.

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Elan
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You can toss it to me for a review: email it to buce at charter.net
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Sara Genge
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It's kind of late in my part of the world so I'll wait until tomorrow to send the manuscript to everyone who offered. The rewrite of the revision on the first thirteen is almost done, I'll post that tomorrow also.
Thank you everybody for the comments. Thanks in advance to those who offered to read and thanks to wbriggs whose crit made me rethink the whole story and showed me why I needed to rewrite most key scenes. My writing has improved incredibly since I joined Hatrack a few months ago and its all thanks to you guys.
Good night!

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Sara Genge
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I finally got around to starting the rewrite. I'm going to lose a big chunk of expo-dump at the beginning and fastforward straight to the interesting stuff. Does this work?


When my family was exiled to New Amazonia, I was only twelve and too young to understand inter-planetary politics.
"We have to leave the Empire," my mother told me and my brother while we waited for the shuttle to take off, "but that doesn't mean we have to leave its values behind." She placed her hands on our foreheads and spoke the traditional saying. "Take care of your auras. They are the best guide to your actions. Don't just tell the truth, be the truth and your auras will be beautiful for everyone to see. Lie, cheat or kill even the smallest creature and your auras will show you are tainted." Her blessing was drowned by the roar of the engines.
I never learned what my mother had done to deserve exile only that New Amazonia was a tropical planet and that we'd never return to the Empire


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Mystic
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Whenever you are ready to send this excellent work out for reading, put me on the mailing list please.
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Sara Genge
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Thanks Mystic, I'm still not convinced about this new version. I'm going to fiddle with it a little longer before I do that, but thanks for the offer.
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oliverhouse
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Sara, I liked your first version better. I'll try to pin down why if you like, but the reaction was definite.
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Sara Genge
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Yes, please pin it down. I like the first version better myself, but it makes promises that the story doesn't develop. Help!
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oliverhouse
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What promises are you fulfilling? Knowing that might help figure out how they should be made.

[Mulling...] I'm not a writing critic, or an English major, or even a literature buff, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I'm trying to analyze a gut reaction. With that in mind, here goes...

I think the first version has tension, specificity, and characterization that the second lacks.

First version:
-------------

For a child to be aware of "death by poison and kidnapping" is both dangerous and outside my sphere of experience, and therefore interesting. I can imagine a child who knows about those things, and I immediately sense an edge on her* whole life.

This version is full of specifics and details. Mother is an ambassador; politics are deadly, even for children; the Empire is everything to the MC; the society is technologically advanced enough to have classes outside "encased in glass" (which gives me a much different picture than the more mundane glass building I'd expect if I were describing something on Earth). You talk about poison and kidnapping, not general "danger".

Then, as you start to relate how her mother's fall from grace affected the MC's life -- a life I already see as different and strange -- I'm anxiously waiting to see what I can only assume will be a tremendous change.

The questions I have after reading this excerpt are: How will exile affect the family? What will the new locale be like? What kind of adaptations will the MC have to make? What kind of adventure will befall them? Will it be more dangerous, because it's exile? How will those dangers be different from the danger she's in as an ambassador's daughter on New Amazonia?

I'm full of questions, actually, all of which are open-ended and involve this already-somewhat-interesting character. I expect this story to have strong characters (which might be a problem if you don't have them), even if it's plot-driven.

Second version:
--------------

Almost everything that was specific about the first version has been removed in the second, leaving me with a less vivid image of the character's childhood (which leads to a less intriguing character) and a less vivid picture of the world she's in (just generic "shuttle" and "roar of the engines").

The tension is disturbed by the switch from from interplanetary politics to a blessing about something -- an "aura" -- that I don't understand yet. There's no tension in the aura, just aura-ness , and the blessing itself only shows me something about the culture rather than the characters. I don't have a sense that these characters will be developed strongly, as I did in the first one. Whatever anticipation of change I might have gets derailed instead of enhanced; since tension is the cause of questions, and I don't have a very specific sense of character or tension, I have fewer and less-specific questions. I just have a vague feeling that the story will be about the aura.

---

Naturally, I'm doing all of this with hindsight; I think what I've written is true, but it may not be precisely what triggered my greater approval of the first version. I hope it makes sense, though, and leads you somewhere. As I said, I think that knowing what promises you fulfill would help determine how you should make them.

Regards,
Oliver

*"Her"? I think female because you're the author, but maybe you should attempt to identify gender.

[This message has been edited by oliverhouse (edited October 09, 2006).]


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kings_falcon
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Hi Sara,

First, I am sorry I have't gotten comments back to you yet on the full story but you should have them by the end of the week. If you want me to hold off the comments until you've done the rewrite, just let me know.

I don't think that you "failed to keep the promises of the first opening." The story is about what happens when she's exiled and not the old life. I did think too much time was spent on developing a world she leaves before the story actually starts. I'd keep the original revised intro but delete all the details about her Mom sitting through the class.

While the newer version tells us information that is more important to the story as it progresses there isn't the instant connection with the MC.

If you want to cut out the pre-life, which I think might be a mistake, you might move the last sentance in the fragment up to the second line. Having seen the rest of the story, you might then pick up with the paragraph that sentance came from and expand on the crash landing. Mom can say the prayer and pep speech once they survive the crash. You can then take the time to explain why killing animals/etc. blights the aura and what auras mean to these people by contrasting them with the events that happen later.

[This message has been edited by kings_falcon (edited October 10, 2006).]


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Sara Genge
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Thanks both of you!

Oliver: basically the problem with the first version is that the whole story takes place in the new planet and political conspiracies have absolutely no importance there (it's more like basic survival issues). I sort of promise a political intrigue I don't deliver.

Kings falcon: I'll fiddle around with those two ideas. I had the idea of keeping the opening but trashing that schoolroom scene while I was reading Oliver's crit, and the fact that you repeated it just makes me want to investigate further.
I also liked the other thing, about throwing the blessing in after the crash. This beginning feels clichéd to me (shuttle craft taking off, uh oh)

Well, thanks


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