posted
I'm not going to say anything other than that I'd be more than happy to send the whole thing to whoever wants to read it (although, being new, I'm not quite sure how to do that - do I just e-mail it or what?) Anyway, here goes(cut at 12 lines to avoid mid-sentence breaks):
Note: I have decided to remove this passage in order to encourage readers to request the original document and read the whole thing.
[This message has been edited by I need a good user name (edited September 13, 2006).]
[This message has been edited by I need a good user name (edited September 14, 2006).]
This isn't BAD description. It's just not in the right place.
You haven't brought up anything significant yet. I have no curiosity about why she's here. I'm not worried about why she's here. It's getting on to I don't care (yet) why she's here.
The first paragraph may be free according to Card, but it still needs something meaningful in it.
posted
Thanks for your input people. However, I would appreciate any suggestions on how to impliment your suggestions as I feel kind of lost in terms of what you want me to do, exactly. Also, I would appreciate it if someone would be willing to look over the full document?
And sojoyful (and I don't want to sound like I'm critiquing a critique, but....), I also appreciate your concern over sounding too harsh. I have to admit that I found your comment on the hurtful side, so maybe you can tone it down please along with suggestions on how I can improve my work
posted
My apologies if the comment came across as harsh. It certainly wasn't mean to hurt, but as we all know, it is difficult to convey tone of voice with the written word alone. :\
Essentially, what I was saying is that you have drawn me a very clear picture of this moment in time, but nothing more. When I say picture, I mean in the sense of a photograph, a snapshot of a single moment in time - hence why I eluded to the book cover. What is needed is more information - not about the same thing, but other kinds of information about other things.
Despite the good description (and I'm not being sarcastic there), I don't know anything about the setting, except that there's a desert. I don't know anything about the character beyond her name. I don't know anything about the story at all, except that it has a desert and a character named Amy. I don't even know the genre!
Questions to which pieces of answers need to be at least hinted at: - Who is she? (age or social position or job or whatever particular piece of information is relevent to your story) - What is the social/temporal context? (early 1200s alternate Earth history? nomadic desert dwellers on another planet in the future? post-apocolyptic modern-day America? magical desert land in a fantasy novel?) - What does the character care about? (what is she thinking about, other than the desert? why is she here, at this moment? what is her objective/goal/dream/fear/etc. that is driving her now? does she have a task to perform? is she happy to be here? is she going home after years away? being exiled from home forever?) - What is this story about, generally? (is the story about the actual world, and she will explore it? is there some mystery to be solved? will this be about a character taking the initiative to change her life? does something happen to her that pulls her into the story against her will?)
As for exactly how to go about implementing suggestions and improvements, I wish I could help. In the end, though, you are the only one who will be able to really apply what we say here, since you're the only one who knows the whole story. Good luck!
posted
Hmmmmm...maybe I should've explained a few more things rather than just relying on the first 12 lines to at least capture reader's interest (I was kind of anticipating people asking for the full document which would naturally answer most of these questions).
This is actually something I wrote about a year ago, and hence probably explains the lack of detail in the first 13 lines (since, well, I didn't know editors only read the first 13 lines ) Actually, as much as I took offense at the "cover art" comment (and no hard feelings by the way, nor did I mean to convey such), in a way that's kind of what I was going for. This was just something I wrote that, while it ties into a larger universe that I've been working on for years, I was just trying to establish a mental picture for myself. If you want to, you can think of it as the 13-line concept expanded into two pages and applied to an overall story universe. Although while personally useful, I probably neglected to remember that this is a method primarily used by the film industry and probably doesn't translate well into prose (for example, this is pretty much how George Lucas sold Star Wars to 20th Century Pictures - with a single matt painting that could be described as "cover art").
Anyway, I'm still interested in what people think of the overall work, and I will change the opening post to reflect that.
As for your questions, well naturally I can answers those in full but I'd rather have the story speak for itself. If nothing else I'll discuss them in one of the more appropriate boards.
[This message has been edited by I need a good user name (edited September 14, 2006).]
I didn't read what you first posted, but I wonder if you grasped the idea that most 13 lines posted are the first 13 of the story. (and is seen as that unless otherwise said.) If you had said this is just your mental image of the situation, you would have gotten different crits.
(But just a note on your note, people arent usually interested in something sight unseen.)
quote:Note: I have decided to remove this passage in order to encourage readers to request the original document and read the whole thing.
As Pyre Dynasty said, this is very unlikely to have the desired effect. We are all starving writers (or not-starving-but-with-day-jobs writers) and our time is precious, so we can't critique everyone's stories. Most people here (myself included) use the posted first 13 to decide if we want to spend our precious time reading the rest of a particular piece or not. By removing your excerpt, you have effectively shot yourself in the foot.
posted
I'm so sorry, but I have to agree. Also, because those thirteen lines aren't up anymore, I can't give you my input and I can't suggest ways to fix anything.
Posts: 507 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
I'm sorry for this whole mess. I probably should've either have rewritten the beginning for a better hook, or just forget posting this story in the first place without having time to establish myself here. I do feel quite embarassed about everything (especially if you remember my introduction where I said I was rather shy - and, well, this type of situation is pretty much what I'm talking about), not to mention quite frustrated.
I might post the 13 lines again, or then again it might just be better if I forgot about the whole thing.
posted
Its really not a big deal. Id suggest you post your first thirteen back into the first post and then add an extra post with your rewrite. You can continue to improve the rewrite and keep posting it. People will keep commenting on ways to improve it until its as perfect as you can make it. Dont be shy. Youve done nothing wrong. Were happy to contribute our humble opinions. I think we actually learn more by critiquing than by having our own stuff crttd. Keep it up.
Posts: 507 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
...or if you'd prefer to work on it and later re-post, that would be fine. I think it's best if you do your dead-level best before getting criticism. I do, anyway.
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
As to the embarressment factor...it's a matter of perspective. To you, it's your one and only fragment, your baby, and it's hugely important to you (understandably). But to us, it's just another fragment in a forum full of fragments. We offer what we can, then we move on to the next fragment. So you certainly haven't inconvenienced or bothered us. Posts: 470 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Oh keep trying. People only post about something they care about. If they don't care it's not worth their time to pay it any more attention. You've got more posts here than one of my frags ever got.
Posts: 1895 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I'm really curious to read it now. Send it to me! rachelsfairy@aol.com and put Hatrack in the subject line so I will know what it's about.
I'm shy as well, which is why I do this online. That way I can distance myself from what people are saying... After all, they aren't in your face saying (or yelling) it!
Though straight up (as in my intro) I'm a new writer so to speak, but I can try to see what they are talking about, though I'll write my thoughts first.
Hope to read it soon! (Unlike the rest here, I have free time... Though I think that's because I put off what I should be doing, by doing other stuff.)
posted
An added comment, if you forget about it, then all that work would be for waste... And if you let this stop you, then it will be hard to even start again.
My first book is now 90 pages, but I stopped it five years ago (at about 20 pages) because of some feedback I had received. Looking back, it's a good story... And if I hadn't stopped, then my train of thought or inspiration wouldn't have stopped either... It's much harder to start up something once it's been put aside, then to continue (albiet slowly or painfully) when you still have the momentum. You speed up faster when you are moving even a little, then when you stopped completely.
"Oh keep trying. People only post about something they care about. If they don't care it's not worth their time to pay it any more attention. You've got more posts here than one of my frags ever got."
True, although I have to admit this was far from the "publicity" I was seeking. I'd rather have two or three posts than a long thread centered around my personal embarassment and insecurity.
posted
We all get embarrassed from time to time. Consider the adage "What does not kill me makes me stronger." All the comments, including the uncomfortable ones, usually stem from a desire to help each other improve.
It's more than improving our writing skills. Learning to sift out useful comments from not-so-useful comments is part of the learning process. Learning to believe in our stories, being willing to look at our beloved words from another's point of view, learning to admit we have room for improvement... this is the journey we are all on. All of us. Even best-selling authors have room for improvement, as the current thread about Stephen King proves. No one here takes pleasure in squashing someone else's enthusiasm. Instead, we take delight in helping each other grow. And when one of us achieves publication, we take pleasure in having been a vicarious part of the process.
I watched the movie "Finding Neverland" (with Johnny Depp) the other night. I cried like a baby when the character James Barrie recognizes the soul of a writer in the boy, Peter, and through his encouragement sets the writer inside Peter free to bloom on his own. It's a level of connection with the story that a friend of mine didn't share. But I know there's joy in helping someone else believe in their dream.
Don't confuse critique for condemnation. WE believe in YOUR dream, because it's a dream we all share.
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited September 17, 2006).]
posted
Ok Now I'm curious, send me the whole manuscript and tell me the level of criticism you can take in the email. I'll do my best.
Posts: 507 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Oh, and thanks for your feedback. I'm trying to work out on improving my story, but I've been busy and especially fatigued lately - I barely have enough energy really to reply here, hence my rather sporadic replies especially to this thread.
Posts: 45 | Registered: Sep 2006
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) Actually, as much as I took offense at the "cover art" comment (and no hard feelings by the way, nor did I mean to convey such), in a way that's kind of what I was going for. This was just something I wrote that, while it ties into a larger universe that I've been working on for years, I was just trying to establish a mental picture for myself. If you want to, you can think of it as the 13-line concept expanded into two pages and applied to an overall story universe. Although while personally useful, I probably neglected to remember that this is a method primarily used by the film industry and probably doesn't translate well into prose (for example, this is pretty much how George Lucas sold Star Wars to 20th Century Pictures - with a single matt painting that could be described as "cover art"). 
