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Author Topic: "Will Sleep for Food" fantasy short
AstroStewart
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This is a chapter from my WIP, a sequel to my first novel, that I think might make a good stand alone short story. I'm looking for people willing to read the story and give me feedback. It's roughly 3000 words.

EDIT: Based on the feedback I got, both here and from critiquers of the whole story, I've re-editted this story, in case anyone would like to take a look at it now.

For anyone browsing this post for the first time, I'd like to stress that I'm not particularly interested in a critique of the first 13 lines. I want to know if this works as a story, as a whole.

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First 13 (redone, though probably very similar to the original, as most of the rewrite was later on):

Jenna sat in the corner of the inn’s common room, her hand wrapped around her cup as she eyed the other patrons carefully. She did her best to keep her gazes inconspicuous, letting her long brown hair fall down over most of her face, with her cloak wrapped tightly around her. She didn’t want to draw attention to herself until the proper time had come, and she hadn't even decided on a target yet.

The sun had set some time ago, and the more respectable men were beginning to leave; the time was drawing close for her to make a move. Experience had taught her to choose carefully, though. She needed to find a target wealthy enough to be worth her efforts, but one that would also play into her expectations, and intoxication was a double-edged sword. In the right amount,

[This message has been edited by AstroStewart (edited March 31, 2007).]


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tnwilz
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I will read the whole thing and give you my opinion, such as it is.

On the first 13 there are several sentence structure issues. The second sentence does not flow well. I don’t like to rewrite other people’s work so using your writing and just changing it around a bit.

“She did her best to keep her gazes inconspicuous, letting her long brown hair fall down over most of her face, and her cloak wrapped tightly around her.”

I think that works a little better and flows nicer. Just a rough idea though, its your work.

I would remove the “But” on the first line of the second paragraph; it’s redundant and removing it makes the “but” on the next line flow better. I would remove the third “but” as well and replace it with something like “however.”

“Intoxication was a double-edged sword. In the right amount, it could be invaluable, if she chose incorrectly however, if the target was a violent drunk it made the task all the more distasteful, and much more dangerous.”

I’m sure other will have more but this is what I see for now.
Tracy

[This message has been edited by tnwilz (edited March 10, 2007).]


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wbriggs
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As soon as I got to her looking for a target, and the author not telling me what this meant, I was annoyed.

At the end of the next paragraph, I still don't really know. (Theft, I'd guess, but if this is fantasy it may be something magical.) I'd rather the author just tell us.


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KayTi
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Wish I knew what she was up to - she seems a schemer. Is she good? bad? in between?

I found the "keep her gazes inconspicuous" phrasing challenging. Is gazes some special ability in her world? Or is she trying not to draw attention to herself while she's looking around? If so, there might be a way to say it that wouldn't involve a non-standard use of the word "gaze." At least, I think that's where my discomfort came from.

Agree it seems like "but" starting the "But experience had taught her to..." sentence looks extraneous, particularly when a compound sentence w/"but" follows it.

But these are minor points. Looks like a good start! Good luck with it -
Karen


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AstroStewart
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Thanks for the comments so far.

I'm confused as to why KDW removed some of my original post, though. I copied exactly 13 lines out of my manuscript and pasted here. Did I paste "too much" because my manuscript is in Times New Roman, not Courier New? If so it's more like the first "10-13 lines depending on font choice" that we're allowed to post I guess


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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You got it.

Manuscript format uses 12-point Courier font, and we have specified that in numerous places.

We have also explained that the best way to tell if you have 13 lines of manuscript-formatted text is if it exactly fills a reply box here on Hatrack. (They are set by the software to hold exactly 13 lines of 12-point Courier text.)

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited March 11, 2007).]


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Elan
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I'm confused as to why you posted this fragment here, and not in the F&F for novels? (I'm a little confused as to why we split F&F into two, but that's beside the point.)

Openers for a short story have different demands on them, in terms of pacing and revelation of info, and the hook. Your hook is too slow building for a short story.

Are you looking at this chapter as a complete short story, in and of itself?


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InarticulateBabbler
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The second paragraph seems to be avoiding more than explaining.

The whole thing is a bit cluttered with unnecessary information and conjunctions.

I don't know why I should care about Jenna.

IMHO this would allow you more room for exposition and make your point clearer:

Jenna sat in the corner of the bar. Through the curtain of her long brown hair, she eyed the other patrons. Cloak wrapped tight, Jenna did her best to look inconspicuous. Until she decided on a target, she didn’t want to draw any undue attention. The sun had set some time ago, and the respectable men were beginning to leave. Experience told her to choose carefully. Not only did her mark need money, he needed to be the right amount of intoxicated. It was time to make her move...

Hope this was helpful and not overstepping my boundaries...

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited March 11, 2007).]


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tnwilz
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Ok Kyle

I wanted to think a bit on this and I actually read your story twice. The story is a very simple concept and there isn’t really what I would call a plot, more an incident. In the absence of a compelling plot to pull the reader along you have to have incredibly good characterization. This is where the story is weak. I was just starting to get a feel for her when the story was over. I thought, “Was that it, what an odd story.” I didn’t like or dislike your MC. I didn’t ever really connect with her. I wondered about her though. What was she really like, was she lonely or was she a loner? Does or did she have anybody that cares about her? What happened to her? Does she have any bad habits, insecurities, is she basically a good person or selfish? Does she ever start to fall for any of these men? Is she deep down looking for love and companionship or does she just callously rob without a second thought? This victim; was she ever really in any danger from him? I know zero about him. Was he prone to being violent, was he married with three kids, a mindless thug, was he secretly a member of the queen’s elite guard, had he never done anything like this before? Maybe you could have him tell her stuff that she doesn’t want to know because she doesn’t want to care. That way you bring humanity to the story and make him real at the same time. Perhaps she finds something in his purse that makes her regret robbing him. Like Peachy accidentally pick pocketed a fellow Mason in Kiplings, “The man who would be king” and then he had to find a way of returning his watch to him without looking like a common thief. A thief he was, common he wasn’t. See great characterization never leaves you.

Keep plugging your on your way. Have people here read for you it’s invaluable. Rebuild it and I will read again.

Tracy


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AstroStewart
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Thanks for those thoughts on the story. It may be that the chapter doesn't really stand alone as a short story after all. You said that this seemed more like an "incident" than a story, and you were only just starting to get a feel for the MC when it was over. As a chapter of a novel, this is exactly the point of the novel. This chapter is a "her life before she gets involved" snippet, so we have at least some contact with her before she targets our main story's MC a few chapters down the road and *really* gets herself in trouble.

Your reaction is basically the reason I started a thread a while back asking how much actual story you need for a short story. While this chapter *is* relatively self-enclosed, lending itself towards a short story, not a whole lot happens. Its purpose in the grand scheme of the novel is so that, later on when she tries her robbery-scheme on our main male character, we know before hand how her plan is *supposed* to play out.

I guess the main problem in trying to pretend an introductory (for this charcter) chapter in a novel is a short story, is that in a short story all those questions you ask should be answered. In other words, all the interesting personality traits of the MC should be displayed upfront, so we get to know the character's hopes and dreams and flaws by the time the story is over. As one of perhaps 8 chapters from this character's POV in a novel, this introductory chapter is just the tip of the iceberg as far as characterization goes...

I think I see what you're saying though, about adding some humanity to the story. As it is, we don't even know if this POV character is "good" or "evil." She becomes important later on in the story, and it may help alot, even just for the novel as opposed to a standalone short story, to let the reader know early on whether she is heartless/greedy/selfish, or just a normal, "good" person on the inside trying to get by -- an uncommon thief, as it were.

I'm going to stop rambling now.
Thanks for the offer to look it over again. Once I make the changes that I think are necessary after your insight, I'll let you know .And of course, if anyone else wants to read the story and know what it is we're talking about, let me know.

[This message has been edited by AstroStewart (edited March 18, 2007).]


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hoptoad
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hi,
just one comment on word use.
Its just a minor nit, but the words 'bar' and 'glass' seem 20th/21st-century-real-world but the girl seems like a fantasy setting thief-type in a cloak. I guess it could be, but I want to be clear about it.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 18, 2007).]


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AstroStewart
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You know those words honestly hit me as too modern too, but what do I use instead? Using "tavern" and "mug of ale" or something sounds cliche, especially for fantasy, while "bar" and "glass" seem too modern. Is there a middle ground, or do I just go with tavern and mug, which sound cliche only because they *are* the correct words for pre-industrial fantasy settings?
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hoptoad
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you're right, what words to use?

I would suggest 'inn' as it is an 'original' word that literally mean a place you go 'in' and it can't be dated. However 'tavern' is okay, but is a post Norman-invasion word, so... your call. You indicate that the place is quite large and busy so I guess it offers accommodation.

For 'glass' I would use 'cup'.

I think 'patron' is also a bit the same as 'bar' and 'glass', giving the wrong feel but that could be because of the 'bar' and 'glass' thing. So maybe try 'lodgers'. It indicates someone who may be staying there or 'occupants' for those who may or may not be staying.

It then becomes something like:

'Jenna sat in the corner of the inn, grasping an half-empty cup, and watched the other lodgers carefully.' or however it went.

I guess patron could work without the associated 'bar' and 'glass,' though I favour 'customer' and 'custom' over 'patron and patronage.'


Look... I hope this is helpful. I sometimes feel like a 'word-nerd'.

PS: I would somehow try to put the 'hands around her cup' thing further in, like when you tell us she is still wearing a cloak even though she is inside, presumably, in a warm and dry pub.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 19, 2007).]


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AstroStewart
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I just wanted to mention that I've taken the past few weeks to revise this short story, in case anyone would like to read it, in its new incantation. I didn't really get a lot of bites last time so maybe I won't this time either, but I figure it's worth a *bump*
*grin*

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