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Author Topic: Donald
Devnal
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Hi,

This is the first 13 (I think first 13, im lost on the requirements to make sure its not too much,) of my latest writing. I seem to have a problem of not finishing works I started. Would love feed back and readers, only 3800 words right now, will be maybe 10,000 15,000 when finished (hopefully) thanks!.

“Donald!” The old woman’s voice wailed from the living room. “Donny! I need my Pop Tarts! Are they almost done? Donald?!”
The nagging voice dug into Donald Morden’s ears like rusty nails trying to reach each other at the center of his brain. He gripped the lip of the kitchen counter and squeezed his eyes shut, repressing the urge to walk into the next room and strangle his fat mother. The image of her enormously saggy arms flailing appeared in his mind. Her eyes would bulge, out of surprise and then out of fear, as his thin hands buried into the rolls of fat around her chin and neck, cutting off her windpipe with a slow firmness that he craved. A queer smile came to his lips and then the timer on the toaster oven gave


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InarticulateBabbler
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Hi, Denval. What genre? How many words? Is it finished? and What are you looking for? (Keep those in mind when posting.)
And 13 line will fit in the message box exactly (top to bottom without paragraph spaces). You got it right.

My take:

quote:

“Donald!” The old woman’s [What old woman? His mother? Name?] voice wailed from the living room. “Donny! I need my Pop Tarts! Are they almost done? Donald?!”
The nagging voice dug into Donald Morden’s ears like rusty nails trying to reach each other [at<--[in would've been my choice.] the center of his brain.<--[Nice!] He gripped the lip of the kitchen counter and squeezed his eyes shut, repressing the urge to walk into the next room and strangle his fat mother. [The<--[Just a Nit, but, I'd think an would work better.] image of her enormously saggy arms flailing appeared in his mind. Her eyes would bulge, out of surprise and then [out of<--ditch this.] fear, as his thin hands buried into the rolls of fat around her chin and neck, cutting off her windpipe with a slow firmness that he craved. [A queer smile came to his lips<--PoV? He can't see his own smile.] and then the timer on the toaster oven gave

Not bad. I don't have much sympathy for someone that's introduced wanting to murder his mother (apparently because she's fat). As it progressed, I began to wonder if Donny is the antagonist.

I'd probably read on.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited January 28, 2008).]


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Devnal
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How would I go about fixing the "Queer smile" problem? I think its a good part of the story, I'd rather show the action than the emotion, as it's something Donald doesnt do too often. Maybe "Donald saw a queer smile upon his lips mirrored in the toaster's metallic side."

IB, i think i posted most of the answers to your questions at the top of my first post. I'm a little lost on pinning a genre to the story. It's dark story. Modern time. I guess Donald would be classified an Antagonist, Though I don't have a protagonist.

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated


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Cheyne
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Excuse my pedantry:
Just a quick note on terminology.

The protagonist is the character (usually the POV Character)that the reader identifies with. The antagonist is the person or force that stands in the way of the protagonist's goal. The goodness, badness or likability of a character has no bearing on whether they are classified as protagonist or antagonist.
A protagonist can be a serial killer and the antagonist a saint.

Protagonists don't have to be good people.

If you wrote a story there is a protagonist.


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InarticulateBabbler
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A story can be written from the antagonist's pov (you see chapters in fantasy novels that have done this frequently. The antagonist is genreally the bad guy--the one who antagonizes--and the protagonist is the MC (Main Character) or good guy.

quote:

A protagonist can be a serial killer and the antagonist a saint.

That's really just telling the story from the antagonist's PoV--unless you have a compelling way of making the reader/audience sympathize with the killer and see the saint in a bad light. (Of course, the saint wouldn't be a "saint" in the eyes of the killer--who'd probably consider himself a hero, or warrior--or some-such.) The key is whom the audience gets behind, not whose PoV it is.

Of the two characters presented here, in this 13 lines, I would peg the mother for the protagonist and the son the antagonist. Although the mother seems demanding, I do not yet know if she is disabled or otherwise incapacitated, thereby explaining it. I do know, however, that Donald is daydreaming about strangling his fat mother, and thinks only derisively of her bulge and saggy arms. I could've accepted the rusty nails trying to reach each other at the center of his brain comment and still though of him as the protagonist, but, by the end, no redeeming quality even attmpted to show.

As to the "queer smile", he wouldn't think of it as such--he'd know what's behind it. (So should we.)

As to:

quote:

IB, i think i posted most of the answers to your questions at the top of my first post. I'm a little lost on pinning a genre to the story. It's dark story. Modern time. I guess Donald would be classified an Antagonist, Though I don't have a protagonist.

With each thirteen, pretend no one has read any other posts. How many words will determine if some people volunteer to give a full critique; and make others balk. Genre gives us a hint of the commitment you are making to the reader. Dark and modern you say, but is there a speculative element? Ghost? Aliens? Telekenisis? Lasers and spaceships? Gremlins or faeries? Magic? Possession? Or is it just a crime story, dark comedy, or literary work? If it is not finished, the advice will overwhelmingly be to finish it before posting. That will also deter readers...

Hope this helps.


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Devnal
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Thanks for the input. Not sure on the etiquette of reposting the 13, but here it is. Does this flow better?
---------------

“Donald? Donny! I need my Pop Tarts! Are they almost done? Donald?!” The nagging voice dug into Donald Morden’s ears like rusty nails burrowing toward each other, trying to reach the center of his brain. He gripped the lip of the kitchen counter and squeezed his eyes shut, repressing the urge to walk into the next room and strangle his fat mother. An image of her enormously saggy arms flailing appeared in his mind. Her eyes would bulge, out of surprise and then fear, as his thin hands buried between her chubby chin and plump neck, cutting off her windpipe with a slow firmness that made him grin. The timer on the toaster oven gave a sudden DING! He shook the forbidden picture out of his mind and thought no more of it.

----------

I left the smile in, does this work? I figured it was worded the same as "squeezed his eyes shut", so it should fly, right?


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Please do post rewrites of your 13 lines in the same topic. Makes it easier for people to see what has been discussed already, for one thing.
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Cheyne
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IB- I think you are confusing Anti-hero with antagonist.
An anti-hero is still the protagonist.
It is not a case of pro=good and ant(i)=bad.

Dictionary Definitions:
Protagonist: the principal character in a work of fiction
Antagonist: the adversary of the hero or protagonist of a drama or other literary work.

There is no condition of good, bad, or "redeeming qualities" in these definitions.
The protagonist strives to reach a goal and the antagonist opposes them.
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid are bank robbers yet they(not the police who hunt them) are the protagonists of that movie. In A Clockwork Orange, Alex is the most violent and despicable of characters and yet he(not the doctor who tries to cure him) is the Protagonist of that novel .

Devnal
In this opening we get no indication of a goal for the mother (beyond getting her poptarts), and there is no motivation for any action given to her. Donald on the other hand has been given motivation (her nagging)to reach some goal (her death), and whether that goal is commendable or not has no bearing on his standing as protagonist. Unless this story is about a struggle with his mother or himself, no antagonist has shown up to stop him yet.

All pedantry aside, as a reader, I have assumed that Donald is your main character and that we will learn of his deeper motivations as we go along.
I for one like antiheroes and would likely read on.


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InarticulateBabbler
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quote:

an·ti·he·ro /ˈæntiˌhɪəroʊ, ˈæntaɪ-/ Pronunciation Key [an-tee-heer-oh, an-tahy-]
–noun, plural -roes. a protagonist who lacks the attributes that make a heroic figure, as nobility of mind and spirit, a life or attitude marked by action or purpose, and the like.

an·tag·o·nist /ænˈtægənɪst/ Pronunciation Key [an-tag-uh-nist]
–noun
1. A person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent; adversary.
2. The adversary of the hero or protagonist of a drama or other literary work: Iago is the antagonist of Othello.


pro·tag·o·nist /proʊˈtægənɪst/ Pronunciation Key [proh-tag-uh-nist]
–noun
1. The leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work.
2. The leader of a cause; a champion.


I know the definitions. If you care to use the thesaurus, "Bad Guy" is common on the list for antagonist; "Good Guy" isn't. However "Champion" or "Hero" are quite common under protagonist.

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid were criminals, not bad guys. And they were likeable. They had some redeeming qualities. Police and Military can go by the book and still be antagonists.

Antiheroes are still the good guys, even if they don't have many likeable or sympathetic qualities, even if they are voilent and dishonest.

A serial killer is never going to be considered anything other than the antagonist--UNLESS you can make him or her sympathetic to the reader.

For me, this subject is closed.

Devnal, the last sentence doesn't make anyone sympathize with the preceding paragraph.

1) I'd separate the quote from the next part.

2) After the first two sentences in Donald's PoV, I'd start to introduce why he's so annoyed. Does she harp on him all the time, about every little thing? I still don't know that. Has he been taking care of her for two years because his slack brother ditched town? Give us some level to relate to him on.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited January 30, 2008).]


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