posted
Awhile back I posted my story fragment and received some helpful feedback on this story. Here is my latest attempt at an intro. I'd appreciate your thoughtful comments.
The Ambu War Chronicles: Commander Kine
Waking from a drug-induced sleep, Kine opened his eyes to the white fog that surrounded his black Ylak fighter as it clung like a fly to a giant gray comet while spinning through space. As the leader of his squadron, he'd put forth a daring plan to waylay the enemies resurgent space fleet. The Millen comet belt ran like a luminous stream of ice through the solar system surrounding the planet of Ycerri. Ships generally stayed away from this volatile region because of the unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets, however the cunning Kine saw this region as a perfect cover for an ambush. Having successfully out flanked the enemy, his squadron detached from the giant rock and began to devastate the fleet's most vulnerable fuel, supply ships and command frigates.
[This message has been edited by Becktemba (edited March 17, 2008).]
posted
I just joined, and I am by no means an expert or a great writer, but here are my general thoughts on what you posted:
1. This is WAY more than 13 lines. Even discounting the opening excerpts, the main story looks like more than 13 lines to me.
2. I would recommend not starting with excerpts from works you created for your world. I know it's something of a time-honored tradition in SF and F (and I have used them in the past), but I think that in general they are really hard to pull off. (I don't use them because I don't think that I can pull them off.)
3. In the story proper, you start with the main character's POV, him waking up, and then you shift into a 3rd person omniscient info-dump narration. I think it would be more effective if you have him waking up, and stick with that, and progressively reveal who he is (without the excerpts and the narration), what he's doing there, and the fact that it is five years later. Telling all this directly as the narrator, I think, tends to pull the reader out of the action and, in my opinion, and to make it difficult for the reader to really empathize with the character and what he is going through.
Hope that helps.
[This message has been edited by TheHaldurian (edited March 17, 2008).]
posted
This reads to me like a prologue. Before you took it down the actual story seemed to start with a dream. If I were an editor, I would probably pass on this--too confusing.
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The bitter taste of war was heavy in Kine's mouth as he readied his Black Ylak fighter while it clung like a fly on a giant gray comet while spinning through space. As the leader of his squadron, he'd put forth a daring plan to waylay the enemies resurgent invasion fleet.
quote:Thats funny, thats what some editors said about Frank Herberts DUNE.
I am not sure if you are having trouble accepting criticism. It is always hard at the beginning.
quote:(2)Waking from a drug-induced sleep, (3)Kine opened his eyes to the white fog that surrounded his black Ylak fighter as it clung like a fly to a giant gray comet while spinning through space. (5)As the leader of his squadron, he'd put forth a daring plan to waylay the enemies resurgent space fleet. The Millen comet belt ran like a luminous stream of ice through the solar system surrounding the planet of Ycerri. Ships generally stayed away from this volatile region because of the unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets, however the cunning (6)Kine saw this region as a perfect cover for an ambush. Having successfully out flanked the enemy, his squadron detached from the giant rock and began to devastate the fleet's most vulnerable fuel, supply ships and command frigates.
1) This actually less than 13 lines. 2) It is a cliche to start with an MC waking up--however briefly. 3) Your first sentence is to long--mainly because it deals with too many things. It should be split into smaller sentences.
e.g.
Waking from a drug-induced sleep, Kine opened his eyes to the white fog that surrounded his black Ylak fighter. The vessel clung like a fly to a giant gray comet while spinning through space.
4) Space fighter? Manned?Hmm..Even on earth we are soon going to be using unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV). I find it difficult to believe a casually space-faring nation doesn't use unmanned combat vehicles--certainly at the sharp end. It sounds a little Buck Rogers. I would want to see some world building that moved it away from this fairly soon.
5) The only 'live' action during the whole piece is really when he opens his eyes. The rest is a background 'infodump' followed by a section of telling rather than showing.(...began to devastate the fleet's most vulnerable fuel, supply ships and command frigates....)
6) Whose opinion is this? Feels odd.
7) Where is the hook? I don't particularly care about the commander as all he has done is open his eyes--which isn't enough for me. By the end of the 13 lines the battle is over--it's like a mini story with an end. I have no reason to continue reading. When creating the 13 lines the idea is you hook the reader into to continue reading. I don't feel you have done that.
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited March 18, 2008).]
posted
I think kine is an archaic word for cattle, but maybe it's archaic enough that most people won't have a problem with it.
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posted
Back to that first sentence. My example is still busy.
Try:
Waking from a drug-induced sleep, Kine opened his eyes. The instruments confirmed his Ylak fighter was safely anchored to the surface of the comet as it hurtled through space. The dust of the comet's tail swirled around the canopy ....
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited March 18, 2008).]
posted
I've considered your comments and this is what I've come up with:
Kine recited a prayer as he watched eddies of gases dance around the canopy of his black Ylak fighter. The bitter taste of war began to fill his mouth as he readied the fighter for combat as it clung like a fly to a giant gray comet spinning through space. His entire command of 5,000 fighters was in similar positions within the Millen comet belt that flowed in a luminous stream through the solar system surrounding the planet of Ycerri. Ships generally stayed away from this volatile region because of the unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets, however, the cunning Kine saw this region as a perfect cover for an ambush. Having successfully out flanked the enemy, his squadron detached from the giant rock and began to devastate the fleet's most vulnerable fuel, supply ships and command frigates.
[This message has been edited by Becktemba (edited March 18, 2008).]
posted
'The bitter taste of war began to fill his mouth'
Does war taste more like a lemon than peace. Is peace more like a ripe pear? personally I have never tasted states of conflict...
'The bitter taste of war began to fill his mouth as he readied the fighter for combat as it clung like a fly to a giant gray comet spinning through space.'
Still far too busy.
' ...5,000 fighters was(were) in similar position(s)
The last bit is pretty much unchanged and retains all the faults I previously mentioned.
No real improvements except you lost the cliche at the beginning.
posted
Welcome to Hatrack (or hi there if you're an old hand, I've been in and out lately...)
One point about asking for crits here - you should let people konwn how long the work is and what else you are looking for. Is it a completed work of 8k words in the SF genre and you're looking for readers for the whole thing and feedback on the first 13? Is it a draft beginning to an anticipated 3k word story that you're having trouble with and want preliminary reactions to? Is it a work of horror but sounds SF at first? (which illustrates when it's important to state the genre.)
Let us know what you want/need so you can get the most productive feedback possible.
Also - asking for something specific in the beginning helps you keep from constantly reworking the first 13 in lieu of finishing the darn story. Not that that's happened to me or anyone I know, she says as she wanders off whistling off-tune.
ANYWAY - here's some specific feedback on the first 13 you posted in the bottommost post of yours. My feedback will be inline with your work in parens.
quote:Kine recited a prayer as he watched eddies of gases (I think this is properly spelled gasses...but I'd use spellcheck or dictionary.com not me) dance around the canopy of his black Ylak fighter. (I'm relieved to see the references to black, white, and gray in the first 3 lines reduced to one color. It was overkill before.) The bitter taste of war began to fill his mouth as he readied the fighter for combat as it clung like a fly to a giant gray comet spinning through space. His entire command of 5,000 fighters was in similar positions within the Millen comet belt that flowed in a luminous stream through the solar system surrounding the planet of Ycerri. Ships generally (ly word, can be cut - the meaning is the same whether ships generally stay away or stay away from this region) stayed away from this volatile region because of the unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets, however, the cunning Kine saw this region as a perfect cover for an ambush. (if it's the perfect cover, how is his entire fleet not being consumed with the gaseous eruptions? This would be an opportunity to characterize the MC a bit more - "Kine knew from experience that positioning under the rotational axis of the comet and powering up the forward shields would protect his ship from the most damaging eruptions, and had directed his fleet to do the same.") Having successfully (another one of those LY words. Not that you can't have any, but it's worth evaluating what purpose they serve you early in the story, as often they're there as "helper" words that aren't needed. They stand out to some editors as amateurish. This is a current trend in fiction that will likely swing another direction in the future, but for now it is what it is.) out (I think a hyphen is called for: out-flanked, but I'm not grammar girl, check me on that) flanked the enemy, his squadron detached from the giant rock and began to devastate the fleet's most vulnerable fuel, (the comma here makes me separate fuel from ship, but i think it's supposed to be fuel ships, supply ships, and command frigates. Are the command frigates really that vulnerable? In my experience, command posts are heavily fortified/protected, or there are redundant or decoy command ships.) supply ships and command frigates.
posted
Kine recited a prayer as he watched eddies of gases dance around the canopy of his black Ylak fighter. A bitter taste filled his mouth as he readied the fighter for combat as it clung like a fly to a giant gray comet spinning through space. His entire command of 5,000 fighters were in similar positions within the Millen comet belt that flowed in a luminous stream through the solar system surrounding the planet of Ycerri. Ships usually stayed away from this volatile region because of unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets. However, despite the danger, it was worth the risks the comets were a perfect cover for an ambush, and his pilots had been prepared for the difficult task. Having successfully out flanked the enemy, he ordered the
[This message has been edited by Becktemba (edited March 19, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited March 19, 2008).]
posted
Slightly long... I've trimmed my commented version down to the required 13 lines.
quote:Kine recited a prayer as he watched eddies of gases (1) dance around the canopy of his black Ylak (2) fighter. A bitter taste filled his mouth as he readied the fighter for combat as it clung like a fly to a giant gray comet spinning through space.(3) His entire command of 5,000 fighters were in similar positions within the Millen comet belt (4) that flowed in a luminous stream through the solar system surrounding the planet of Ycerri.(5) Ships usually stayed away from this volatile region because of unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets. However, despite the danger, it was worth the risks the comets were a perfect cover for an ambush,(6) and his pilots had been prepared for the difficult task. Having successfully out flanked the enemy,(7) he ordered the fighters to attack. Catching the enemy completely off guard,
More than a few notes from me...
1. This sounds a little funny to my ear. I know you're using "eddy" correctly, but it still sounds funny. Maybe it's because both "eddies" and "gases" are plural. I don't know, but it stick out to me.
2. Ooof. Black Ylak? Pronounced similar to White Blight? Or Mellow Yellow? Or Purple Nurple? Again, this just sounds funny to read, and I don't know that a chuckle is the response you're trying to elicit from me in this circumstance. Is the color of the ship important? The name of it?
3. Too many uses of "as" in this long run-on sentence, so it's probably best that you clean it up, maybe using a period, or maybe even a semicolon from time to time, just to break up the sentence because as it stands it sounds funny.
Interesting how everything is just funny sounding so far.
4. This is a technical point.... no such thing as a "comet belt". A comet is defined as "...a celestial body moving about the sun, usually in a highly eccentric orbit, consisting of a central mass surrounded by an envelope of dust and gas that may form a tail that streams away from the sun." A meteor belt, like the one between Mars & Jupiter, is more likely the term you're looking for here. If you're going for sci-fi, editors will want the science to be essentially correct.
5. Another too-long sentence, which in this instance confuses the subjects. Is the solar system surrounding Ycerri? (again, not really the wording you want here, since a planet will generally always be surrounded by a solar system.) Or is the comet belt surrounding Ycerri? Clean this up.
6. I think there's a period or sentence break missing here. If you didn't mean to end a sentence here, then you need to, because that's how its worded.
7. When did this happen? Outflanked his enemy? I thought he was hiding, waiting in an ambush. To outflank is to generally move in an active manner towards your enemies flanks, not to sit there stationary and hidden until your enemies' flanks are exposed. Also, where did his enemies come from? Kine is sitting there enjoying the gas flowing around him, and suddenly he's all "Good work men, we've outflanked them. Let's giv'er!"
All in all, there's a lot of clean-up required here, and nothing really hooking me into this piece after the first page. Were I an editor, I probably wouldn't bother with the second page.
Jayson Merryfield
Edit: Maybe I shouldn't comment on this, but I just reread the part of your original post that was longer than 13 lines, and saw this...
quote:...Catching the enemy completely off guard, they began to devastate their fleet's most vulnerable fuel tankers and supply ships after first destroying the flank command frigates.
This sentence is terribly vague. Whose fuel tankers are being destroyed? Whose command frigates? And why are you telling us a potentially interesting action scene in one sentence when you could be showing us the same thing in a much more interesting and active way?
***Got my showing and telling backwards.... thanks Skadder***
[This message has been edited by Wolfe_boy (edited March 19, 2008).]
Obviously you should take the advice you feel works for you and ignore the advice you feel doesn't--but please look at your sentence structures.
This is over 13 lines
1) Kine recited a prayer as he watched eddies of gases dance around the canopy of his black Ylak fighter.
This is too busy for my taste. He recites a prayer and watchesgases that dance...You are trying to squeeze too much into this sentence, and therefore missing stuff out. I get no real sense of him. Realize this is an improvement on your previous ones, so the direction you are moving is the right one.
Kine muttered a prayer under his breath as he checked state of the anchor cables. The gas swirling outside his canopy confirmed the what the instruments said; his Ylak fighter was still safely clamped to the massive comet and hidden within its gaseous envelope. And now to war... He selected the stealth-scan from his retinal menu. Dots blinked into existence, as the computer located the other five thousand fighters of his command. Hidden among the ...
A bitter taste filled his mouth as he readied the fighter for combat as it clung like a fly to a giant gray comet spinning through space.(too big) His entire command of 5,000 fighters were in similar positions within the Millen comet belt that flowed in a luminous stream through the solar system surrounding the planet of Ycerri. Ships usually stayed away from this volatile region because of unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets. However, despite the danger, it was worth the risks(.) (T)he comets were a perfect cover for an ambush, and his pilots had been prepared for the difficult task.
"Let's do it, then," he signaled the other ships. He fired the explosive bolts and the ship punched away from the comet. Acquire targets,he informed the computer.
Your bit below tells me he attacks...my bit above shows the beginning of the attack..Show don't tell, besides showing an attack is an excitng bit and your readers miss out.
Having successfully out flanked the enemy, he ordered the fighters to attack. Catching the enemy completely off guard, they began to devastate their fleet's most vulnerable fuel tankers and supply ships after first destroying the flank command frigates.
Kine rolled his Ylak to the right and fired the attitude thrusters so the enemy vessel stayed in his view. The supply vessel launched a cluster silver bees, that swarmed towards him with their antimatter drives pulsing. Kine grinned--this was going to be at least a little challenging.
Not the greatest battle scene--but it is an example of being there...
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited March 19, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited March 19, 2008).]
posted
Kine recited a prayer as a fog of gas streamed around the canopy of his Ylak fighter. A bitter taste filled his mouth as he readied the fighter for combat as it clung like a fly to a giant comet spinning through space. His entire command, 5,000 fighters were in similar positions within the Millen comet belt that flowed in a luminous stream through the solar system of his home planet Ycerri. Ships usually stayed away from this volatile region because of unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets. However, despite the danger, it was worth the risks the comets were a perfect cover for an ambush, and his pilots had been prepared for the difficult task. Hiding on the comets allowed his fleet to slip by and out flank the approaching enemy attack fleet undetected. Kine's gambit
[This message has been edited by Becktemba (edited March 19, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited March 19, 2008).]
posted
Kine recited a prayer as a fog of gas streamed around the canopy of his Ylak fighter. A bitter taste filled his mouth as he readied the fighter for combat as it clung like a fly to a giant comet spinning through space.
Everything above (or nearly) is showing (good!):
Everything below is telling (bad!):
His entire command, 5,000 fighters were in similar positions within the Millen comet belt that flowed in a luminous stream through the solar system of his home planet Ycerri. Ships usually stayed away from this volatile region because of unpredictable gaseous eruptions within the comets. However, despite the danger, it was worth the risks the comets were a perfect cover for an ambush, and his pilots had been prepared for the difficult task. Hiding on the comets allowed his fleet to slip by and out flank the approaching enemy attack fleet undetected. Kine's gambit caught the enemy off guard, as they devastated the attack fleet's command frigates, vulnerable fuel tankers and supply ships.
Show us the story as though looking out from his eyes, hearing his thoughts etc. Telling is like reading about it in a newspaper.
Adam
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited March 19, 2008).]
I like your advice. It ads life and description to this passage. Maybe I've been approaching the intro in the wrong way. This is a short story and I have lots of ground to cover, so I've been curt on the action and description. I know there are ways to accomplish both but it takes work!
Check back here in a day or so I'll re-work it with all the advice in mind.
Thanks,
Cheers!
~Joel
[This message has been edited by Becktemba (edited March 19, 2008).]
posted
It sounds to me like you have a big story and are trying to squeeze it into clothes a size too small. A common problem.
Consider:
1) Are you starting in the right place? Perhaps you could start later? 2) Start each new event later. e.g. begin as they break into the bank rather than when they plan the job. 3) Accept it is a longer story and write it properly. There is no point writing it and leaving out reader involvement.
I will happily crit it for you when you have ensured it is no longer mostly TELLING. Get writing.
posted
Well, if there is as much telling as in your intro, then I guess the reality is you probably have a novel plan in your hand and not a short story.
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