Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Short Works » Chapterhouse Eternity

   
Author Topic: Chapterhouse Eternity
AlliterationAddict
New Member
Member # 10928

 - posted      Profile for AlliterationAddict   Email AlliterationAddict         Edit/Delete Post 
Here are the opening lines from the short story that I'm currently revising. Please let me know how they can be improved, and if anybody would like to see the complete work, then it would be my pleasure to pass it around for feedback.


-------

The water is the blood of winter sent gushing from the stabwound of spring. Hop a’ rock and boulders bopped, and the girl is across to the other bank and running through the fields. Her skirt catches the wind and whips around her legs in unfastening forms.

The wilderness ahead whispers words of besottment to the night. Drooping branches and spread clearings hum in watercolor hues. Do not leave us, they whisper in desperation; the monster approaches, a thing that burns, deliverance! we pray.

Night pays no heed to the call, and darkness retreats. The sun heaves its bulk across the horizon and rises in skyward agony, belching great gouts of flame. It is bloated. It is swollen. Our world turns itself away from this dread and dying thing. We are better for the sun to go and quit our skies than to have it here like this. Its light is disgusting.


-----
Thank you for reading

Posts: 3 | Registered: May 2018  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
walexander
Member
Member # 9151

 - posted      Profile for walexander   Email walexander         Edit/Delete Post 
more poetic than prose, ripe with contradictions. The question is? Are these contradictions meant, or stumbling blocks?

I can make small hints, but because it is more poetry than prose, hard to evaluate as an opening 13. These suggestions won't really aid the confusion this opening has, so be aware of that. I will leave the big picture to others.

quote:
Hop a’ rock and boulders bopped, and the girl is across to the other bank and running through the fields. Her skirt catches the wind and whips around her legs in unfastening forms.
Hop a' rock, boulders bopped, the girl crossed to the other bank. She runs through the field, skirt catching the wind to billow around legs in unfastened form.

Whips around/unfastened form contradict each other.

So many ways you could rephrase your sentences to make them stronger, have more clarity, even in poetic form. What I've given is a poor example.

Hum/watercolor contradiction. sound vs. sight.

quote:
The sun heaves its bulk across the horizon and rises in skyward agony, belching great gouts of flame. It is bloated. It is swollen.
The sun heaves its bulk (through) the horizon (To) rise in skyward agony. It is bloated, swollen beyond normal mass, belching great gouts of flame. (better clarity needed.)

-this dreadful, dying thing- Too many 'and' throughout the piece. Try to rid yourself of them, use when only necessary.

Some of your sentences have real vibrancy, but they seem haphazardly thrown together for an artistic purpose, which weakens their true value for prose. Sprinkle the sugar lightly, a simple dash can go along way, too much added and you have a bitter cake.

The words will come, best wishes,

W.

[ May 23, 2018, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: walexander ]

Posts: 634 | Registered: Jun 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post 
A plural individual observes the spring solstice change of seasons and dawn's twilight. Prose poetry.

Narrative point of view:
First person plural
Present tense
Indicative mood
Nature setting
Fable milieu
Riddle event (riddle this: what am I?)
A girl subjective character, Nature's night denizens objective characters, one of which the narrator, who projects sentiments for all

Darkness and winter tranquility want and light and spring vibrance problem complication motivation
Life and death conflict, and representation of winter as welcome death and spring as unwelcome life stakes at risk
Fabulous and despaired tone

The language is purple, though the fable form favors elaborate poetry adornment, and prose poetry, the language fireworks a substitute for direct discourse expression's verbatim received reflection of events, or an observer, or objective, agonist perceives and relates present-moment dramatic action of an inside looks out rather than a narrator outside looks in. The latter deprecated; the former favored. Purple language also substitutes for dramatic prose craft methods.

The fragment, though, contains several drama essentials, a complication and conflict and tone, that is. Perhaps not as general reader accessible as might be best practice, though accessible for me.

I am of two or more minds regards purple language. If apt, grand! If awkward or clumsy, overwrought and inaccessible, adjustments are wanted. Purple language is apt for fables.

The consideration walexander raises goes to metaphor aptness and grammar principles of parallelism and coordination. Metaphor aptness and parallelism and coordination enhance reader accessibility and comprehension ease.

Alliteration for alliteration's sake forces accentual verse. Alliteration entails first consonant sound repetition. Other similar methods include assonance and consonance, and deepen figurative expressions and appeals. Plus, other figures of speech enhance written-word sounds. In this case, perhaps the overall rhetorical scheme is metaphorical substitution. Substitution best practice accompanies as well repetition and amplification, which the fragment language does.

Another, subtler rhetorical figure or two enhances metaphor aptness, and rhetorical as well as grammatical parallelism and coordination, through substitution; that is, in particular, the use of acoloutha and anacoloutha: Rhetorical figures of substitution, per Silva Rhetoricae, Gideon Burton, rhetoric.byu.edu:

Acoloutha: "The substitution of reciprocal words; that is, replacing one word with another whose meaning is close enough to the former that the former could, in its turn, be a substitute for the latter."

Anacoloutha: "Substituting one word with another whose meaning is very close to the original, but in a non-reciprocal fashion; that is, one could not use the first, original word as a substitute for the second."

An example of anacoloutha, seen at a gun protest rally on a picket sign: "You're not ballot proof." "ballot" substituted for bullet and nonreciprocal.

As is, to me, the substitution metaphors are situational instances and haphazard and happenstance, less than best practice apt for ready access and comprehension ease. Extended metaphor is a possible adjustment. The metaphors as is are all over Creation.

Grammar-wise, some discretionary considerations: present tense inclines toward excess -ing word present progressive verbs and attendant gerunds. Rarely are they necessary, and they accumulate a ring-rhyme nuisance or annoyance. Not to mention they're usually of a non-simultaneous action mistake nature. This:

"the girl is across to the other bank and running through the fields." Not simultaneous actions.

Adjustment illustration: //the girl leaps across the other bank, and she sprints through the far glades.// Near infinite other diction and syntax possibles, too.

Another with unnecessary -ing for demonstration: "The sun heaves its bulk across the horizon and rises in skyward agony, belching great gouts of flame." //The sun heaves its bulk above the horizon, rises skyward in agony, belches great gouts of flame.//

Another: "dread and dying thing" //dread and fatal torment//

"Hop a’ rock" Apostrophe use in that case signals word contraction, an error. The phrase takes hyphens instead or no punctuation altogether. //Hop-a-rock// or //Hop a rock//

These "it" pronoun sentence subjects all but cry out for replacement, again, through rhetorical substitution and amplification: "It is bloated. It is swollen." As is, those are vague antecedent subject referents to, what, belch, gout, flame? The Sun, of course, though too removed from the true subject.

"Its light is disgusting." "disgusting" is inapt, lacks for poetic adornment and a descent into absurd language after all the rich tapestry of somewhat sublime metaphor. Might offensive more so describe the sentiment about sunlight? The intent is to use as strong a poetic and attitude word as available, though. "offensive" is neither. Like, say, //Its daylight insults winter flesh.// In keeping with the overall fragment metaphorical theme.

Not clear yet what relevance the title "Chapterhouse Eternity" expresses about the fragment or the whole, somewhat vague of meaning though exquisite language.

The subtexts of nature's winter and night denizens injured by spring and daylight appeal to me, those plus the objective persona projects the self's sentiments, perhaps falsely, that is, an irony potential, onto its fellows' sentiments. If those were stronger intimations, though not necessarily clearer, I would be hopelessly engaged.

As is, I might could read further, though not yet as an engaged reader.

[ May 23, 2018, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]

Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AlliterationAddict
New Member
Member # 10928

 - posted      Profile for AlliterationAddict   Email AlliterationAddict         Edit/Delete Post 
First of all, thank you so much for responding. All of your suggestions were a huge help. I'm still tweaking my manuscript with the recommended fixes, but it already feels noticeably better. Just using the search function to track down all the 'and's made a big difference. I figure that I should also go on a figurative language killing spree too (crap ... starting right after this sentence). But seriously, a lot of what you brought up (like how hum/watercolor contradicts itself) were things I didn't even think about! Funny thing is, now that you point them out, they seem really obvious. In case you can't guess, this was basically my first stab at creative writing.

One particular contradiction was intentional. I was trying to use imagery that suggests rebirth, and twist it into talking about death. The reason for that is because my story has an unreliable narrator - the world isn't actually dying. But looking at your comment, my takeaway is this: if if it's too opaque for you to evaluate, how is the reader supposed to know if they want to keep going? So I decided to add a paragraph introducing the main themes and conflict. Hopefully, that will improve things.

------------------------

Two quick questions:

On limiting my use of 'and': should I also limit other connecting words like 'or' and (oops!) 'but'?

I understand (and agree) that my style is too poetic. But can poetic style be good (not here, specifically, but in general)? What I'm asking is: should I try to change my style, or do I just need to control my style better?

------------------------

Finally, if you'd like to take a look, I included the updated version of the opening. Any input would be appreciated, but please don't feel under any obligation. You've already helped me a lot!

------------------------

Chapterhouse Eternity

The water is the blood of winter sent gushing from the stabwound of spring. Hop a’ rock, boulder bopping, she crosses the stream. Now the girl mounts the other bank, where fields spread out ahead. In the distance, the forest’s edge. She runs towards it, skirt catching the wind to whip around her legs.

The girl doesn’t know she’s being watched. Nor does the watcher know exactly why they follow her. So many years, searching for an answer. So unlikely to find it here. But the search has lasted so long that only unlikely places remain. Where did it go wrong, all that time ago?

Deep in the forest, trees whisper their besottment to the night. Huddled copses and bald clearings hum in dissonant tones. Do not leave us, they plead in desperation; the monster approaches, a thing that burns, deliverance! we pray.

[ May 24, 2018, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Kathleen Dalton Woodbury ]

Posts: 3 | Registered: May 2018  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AlliterationAddict
New Member
Member # 10928

 - posted      Profile for AlliterationAddict   Email AlliterationAddict         Edit/Delete Post 
Oh! There's a second response. That previous comment was for walexander.

Answering to extrinsic:

Thanks to you too!

I'll have to take a look at my -ing verbs. I do remember using them a lot! I'll focus especially on timing.

Also, I'll go over the piece and try to rework all of the 'it is' phrases. I guess I should probably try to switch those over into verbs where possible?

The use of "disgusting" was very intentional, and makes more sense later on. However, I can see how it might be jolting, especially based on it's position in the text. Thanks for drawing attention to that - I was looking at it as a writer and not as a reader. I'll have to figure out a way to keep things square with how the story develops, while also accommodating readers. But it will be rewritten.

I'm thrilled that you picked up on the narrator's projections, and the death/rebirth, winter/spring, night/day themes. I was really worried that those were too buried. I'll have to work on communicating the story more effectively, but that helps reassure me that the skeleton is sound.

It's nearly 1:00am in Dublin, so I'll do the edits later! But thanks you so much. Honestly, both of these responses helped me feel much more confident about what this story needs, and which direction I should take my edits.

Posts: 3 | Registered: May 2018  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post 
An answer regards "and," "or," but," etc., conjunctions. The related rhetorical figures of speech are polysyndeton and aysndeton, respectively, multiple conjunctions and a dearth of conjunctions. Syndeton wants careful punctuation, that is, mechanical functionality, as well, a rhetorical purpose, persuasive expression, emphasis, pace, and flow management in general.

Polysyndeton allows for heightened sentence tension arcs and setup, delay, and satisfaction segment sequences at sentence level. Polysyndeton creates long sentences, complex and compound, loose, also known as cumulative, and periodic, and risks sentence fusions, also known as run-ons. Polysyndenton slows or suspends narrative time progression and slows pace though flow may be fluid. Polysyndeton can be grammatical vice or rhetorical virtue. Cormac McCarthy uses abundant polysyndeton for excruciatingly detailed "telling detail" descriptions.

Asyndeton speeds narrative time, pace, and flow. Shorter sentences, less so than polysyndeton, complex or compound or combined sentences, what complex-compound, etc., sentences asyndeton allows are staccato sequenced. Rapid and robust action sequences are one general use for asyndeton, also, appositive modification, mindful of parallelism and coordination. Examples: She ran, jumped the stream bank, stuck in mud, toppled forward, planted face. Solar beast breached the dark horizon, red fury, agony of the sky, angry flame belches.

The former example is of a method for non-simultaneous, non-comtemporaneous, robust, sequential action sequences, and typically an emphasis arc of a setup, delay, satisfaction sequence process, most emphasis at the end. The latter amplifies the main clause subject's description, and typically reverses emphasis, most emphasis first, least emphasis last.

Several types of rhetorical schemes label emphasis organization: first, middle, last, in particular, climax, most emphasis last; auxesis, progressive emphasis arc; catacosmesis, most emphasis first. These above and very much more, thousands of rhetorical figures and principles, listed, defined, explained, examples sampled, at Silva Rhetoricae. If prose's poetic equipment and adornment are a writer's stocks in trade, that site is a treasure horde and godsend for to determine if a word or phrase or entire composition is apt and accessible and comprehensible, of course, outside of a comprehensive grammar handbook.

[ May 24, 2018, 03:42 AM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]

Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bent Tree
Member
Member # 7777

 - posted      Profile for Bent Tree   Email Bent Tree         Edit/Delete Post 
The prose is promising. Perhaps a little work on mechanics. I was drawn to the scene and imagery. I appreciated the whimsy and energetic feel in the writing.

Short fiction, to me, is character driven. This is the missing element in my eyes. I always want to see a character, get anchored into the POV, and hopefully find a speculative element to latch onto.

Not having that character may or may not be detrimental to a slush reader. For me, it is a deal breaker in short fiction. If it were a novel perhaps it would be different. So, although I like the prose. I still feel the prose could use some work and I wouldn't continue without meeting a character.

I would be willing to give your story a critique if you are looking for one. Feel free to send it over.

Posts: 1888 | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WB
Member
Member # 10414

 - posted      Profile for WB           Edit/Delete Post 
Let's get a character to see this through.
Posts: 35 | Registered: May 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jay Greenstein
Member
Member # 10615

 - posted      Profile for Jay Greenstein   Email Jay Greenstein         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
The water is the blood of winter sent gushing from the stabwound of spring.
Pretty, yes. But does it set the scene, meaningfully? No. All we know is that snow is melting. So in effect, you open with a weather report.

In general, it's not your story, it's hers. If you tell it to the reader as an external observer, there's no emotion in the voice of the narrator. In other words, you're noticing the melting snow but she isn't. And since you're not in the story, what is of more importance to the reader, what you notice or what she both notices and reacts to?

Is she: a) focused on the fact that snow melt is causing the water to run strong? b) Focused on not falling in? c) Confident in her stepping and focused on her destination? Point A seems a low probability, but it is what you choose. Why not let her pick what matters? Fair is fair, it is her story.

quote:
Hop a’ rock, boulder bopping, she crosses the stream.
So an unknown "she" (not important enough to have a name?) in an unknown place, in an unknown era, on a spring day, crosses an unknown stream for unknown purpose. Is that data or story? You held an image in mind as you write. And the image is the mother of the words. But a reader has no access to your intent, so the words mean only what they suggest to the reader, based on their background and what has gone before. Given that can those words reproduce the image you held in the reader's mind? No.

quote:
Now the girl mounts the other bank, where fields spread out ahead.
You're thinking visually, following her with a camera and telling the reader what there is to see. But a picture is worth a thousand words. So can the few words till this point place your picture in the reader's mind? Does knowing what can be seen equal what a viewer would see in an eyeblink's time. Hell no. Vision is a parallel medium, while the page is serial, requiring us to spell out each item, slowing the narrative to a crawl, to talk about things she's ignoring. Do you really want to read a thousand words before anything happens, so as to provide a still picture of the scene? Of course not. Nor does a reader.

The nature of our medium precludes visual techniques. But if we narrow the focus to what matters to her, and why, we not only make the description size manageable, we make the reader know the scene as she does, calibrating their expectations to the protagonist's and giving them reason to care.

In short, it would make sense to spend a bit of time picking up the tricks of the trade. You can find them online. And most immodestly I suggest that my own writing articles on WordPress might provide an overview of the issues you need to focus on.

The Internet is filled with articles on writing, and the local library's fiction-writing section contains the views of successful writers, publishing pros, and noted teachers. Time spent there is time well spent. And as it usually is, my suggestion is to seek the names Dwight Swain, Jack Bickham, or Debra Dixon. In my view, they're pure gold.

But whatever you do, hang in there, and keep on writing.

Posts: 263 | Registered: Dec 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2