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Author Topic: Are e-books going to take over?
jackonus
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Is the "printed" word going to disappear as a consequence of the electronic society we all are obviously partaking of?

If so, what is the market going to be like for writers? Should we be setting up pay sites of our own for people to see our work. Are publishers just distributors of our art? If so, is the electronic equivalent just some mechanism of having the ability to point "browsers" to the website for our work?

Could our e-books sell for as little as a dollar and we still make a living doing this?


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skywise
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Look at it this way-

Authors don't make but a couple of dollars for each paperback book that is sold. The rest goes to the publisher for cost of making the book, paying the cover artist, and, of course, a little bit of profit.

I haven't done research on this, but I'd bet the production of the book costs about $1-2, depending on the quality of cover and paper and binding. Cut all that out. Then subtract $2 out for the author, though to be honest, I doubt he gets that much. That leaves another $2 for the paying of editors, secretaries, etc. and then whatever extra out of that goes to the furtherment of the company.

I'd say an e-book should charge about $2 a copy--though I don't have a clue yet how they expect to not get hacked somehow--that would leave about $1-1.50 for the author, and the rest for whoever publishes, because it would take less staff to publish on the net. In fact, one man with computer skills and an editor could publish several books a year. the author himself could publish his own book if he had a bit of knowledge or the right friends.

So if it's done right, the author shouldn't loose too much in the way of royalties for e-books.

Personally I don't think it will be done that way, though. I think that an encryption program will have to be made and sold by a publisher, then the stories distributed for free. I've got some ideas how to do this and make a fairly lucrative business out of it, but I won't post them just yet. I think this is the only workable form of the e-book medium if people want to get paid for their work. That, or a subscription to a publisher, kind of like e-zines--which would bring to life the art of serial novels.

By the way, there ARE a few companies who are trying to break into the market with novels on the net, especially in the format of subscription of a serial novel. I'm not sure how they'd do it exactly, but you can see for yourself. I'll post what names or links I know in the Writer's section in the next few days.

That's all for now.


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jackonus
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Skywise, interesting. I went out on a search engine to look for e-book publishers/providers. I found a few "mom & pop" places selling books written by the owners & editors of the sites. I also found a few places offering electronic versions of books also released via mainstream publishers.

What I find most incredible is that the prices on the books are the same as one would pay in the bookstore at each of these sites. Most offer a freebie or at least a sample, but the prices to actually purchase one of the books is just as high as if I went down to Barnes & Knoble and bought the paper back.

I don't know why that should be, unless the volume is just so low at these sites (the mom & pop had about 3000 hits since 1997) that they have to recoup their investment in web space and Adobe Acrobat somehow.

The variety available is pretty small, although one place had lots of "classics" (things for which the copyright has expired), but again at prices the same as or even more than what the paperback would cost.

I like the idea of charging $1 or $2 and having the money go to the authors (mostly) and the editors/publishers secondarily.

If you ever get to the point of seriously pursuing your "secret idea" I would like to be "in" on it. Maybe you could clue me in via e-mail?

Bob


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elfqueen
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I like the idea of the serial novel a great deal. Afterall, many of our most revered (and reviled) authors of literature wrote their finest stories in the form of a serial novel for their newspapers. I think that online novels are quite interesting and may give the writer a bit more power over his or her own work. On the flip side, I think that there will always be a place for the 'hard copy' if you will. There is nothing quite as pleasing as the smell and feel of a good book.
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Khavanon
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I'll tell you a couple of things.

I like being on the internet. But I don't like to read for an extended period of time sitting on the computer for half of a day. I think a lot of people feel this way, too.

One solution: Print out a story. What? That would take forever, and it would use up so much paper, and it would be jumbled up, and what if you spilled it? Okay, okay.

Better solution: Make a small desk computer like Ender, or just use your lap top as you sit in bed relaxing with that lemonade in hand, but don't spill it on the keyboard!

Hmm, but I like the old fashioned story on paper that you can take anywhere you go. You can't make everyone happy, so I suggest that they go with both. What a Sci-Fi world we're bocoming. But without the Fi.


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Bork the Indestructible
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When they come out with wrist-mounted computers that come with built in wireless micro-modems, then maybe e-books would get somewhere. But 'til then? A pocket-sized paper-back that doesn't glow, hurt your eyes or back, or constantly give you annoying little warnings, messages, and doesn't have memory limitations is infinitely more convenient than a desk OR lap top as far as reading goes. But the idea of writing serial short-stories that I can instantly publish on-line and charge dough for sounds great!! In fact, that was sort of my plan when I came up with the idea for an action-comedy-sci-fi serial called "Telepathy for Dummies" which comes in thirty-page episodes. I could turn those things out by the week if it was profitable! Incidentally, the first eight paragraphs of the first episode can be viewed in the youngsters' forum under stories. Take a look and see what you think. Then, for Pete's sake TELL me. That post has been sitting there for two weeks with only one reply! (mine) Oops, I guess that was a little bit of shameless self-publicity. But I really do want feed-back.
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Speedy
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Be encouraged, not discouraged. Libraries have found their book business up 9% over last year. I don't think the internet will ever completely replace the printed book. (Course my wife disagrees. She sits in front of her webtv half the day reading anything she can find on the subjects that interest her, but she's weird.) I think an additional market is being opened by the internet (and webtv), but I don't think it will eliminate or even cut into the old fashioned book market. In fact, if the library statistics are any indication, it is actually increasing the demand for printed books!
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Jeremy Minton
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A solution currently being considered to the problems of glare etc with visual displays is the notion of editable paper. Think of it as a cross between a fax and an Etch-a-Sketch (remeber them?). Your "screen" is book sized, book shape feels and looks like paper. You slot your software into it and it writes ink over the page. Then when you shake the screen, the ink all runs off and your left with a blank page ready to be re-written on.

I heard about this a couple of years ago now. at the time it was meant to be the next big break through in interaces but I've not heard anything else about it since. Has anyone else heard about this?


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Chris
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Ah...I think the solution has been found.

There was an announcement this week of the production of electronic paper. Paper that can looks like paper and has words like paper, but the words can change at will. For example it is being used in a clothing store to display a sale item but every few seconds the items display change.

Books will then come out on cartridge or be downloadable into the electronic paper.

I did not describe this too well but I am not making it up. I think this is what will happen. There is a detailed scientic study on this at the following URL:

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/journal/sj/363/jacobson.html

This study is a bit dated because the technology is now actively entering the market.


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Survivor
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Actually one of the most exiting possiblilities of electronic media literature is also one of the most over looked. Ironically it is even technically easier than all of the other solutions. We all know that the process of voice recognition is a real pain to master, actually one of the measures of whether you are approching real artificial intellegence. But the reverse process, a computer generated voice, is almost laughably easy. You can just have the speaker make the phonetic noise for each charecter and get a pretty good approximation. Add a dictionary function to translate each word into more precise phonetic elements and you get perfect diction, just a little flat. Add emphasis, meter, and a little singsong, and it sounds great. I like to have an appropriate sound effect track, but that is forcing the writer to do the work of an illustrator. Anyhow, if you have controls for speed, emphasis, and pitch, you've got everything you need for an audio text player. Heck of a lot better than those stupid tapes. Only the top quarter percentile of humans can maintain vocal control for long enough to finish longer passages unmangled, and of those only a select few have the judgement to do it in the right speed, pitch, volume, etc. for the several hours of studio time required to make such a tape.
I know that not everyone is big on audio books, but the main objection for me is that the voice and interpretations of the reader are almost more than I can bear. An audio text player would leave control of the reading in the hands of the listener, and permit you to do so many things that you just can't do while reading a regular book. Also, it would be such a boon to the author to be able to hear whether the words alone in a passage were capable or communicating the desired impact, or hearing clumsy alliteration and poorly metered prose.
Well enough on that pipe dream. The most important point is that it is not to difficult to come up with a really airtight system for a reader, whether display or audio. You just build a unique decryption key into each reader. When you sell a work, you sell it pre-encrypted for that specific reader. That way, if someone wants to make a bunch of copies, all their copies will still only work with the one reader. If they are a little more clever and figure out how to decrypt the document, they can't get it to run on any reader until they re-encrypt it for each specific reader they want to copy it to. And at some point they gotta decide that cracking the decryption keys for for each reader is a hassle, since they don't have a database relating the serial numbers of each reader to its unique decryption code. You could make the readers with display or audio, as I said, but I really like the idea of a good Audio Text reader.

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hawke
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Welp,
you might want to check into the Rocket EBook, though i'm sure there's others out there. It's the same idea (you can get it from barnesandnoble.com) of getting books by downloading, but have a novel sized screen that works like a novel. You can even do enlarged text. I think some of them hold up to 10 novels on the book at a time, while the rest are archived on the computer.

The problem: they're costing the same amount as real books, so it seems to me to be a rip off. I feel that will change, but the unit is 200-500 as it is. They frequently give away novels, too...some of them are fairly good. For instance, the Scarlet Letter's (C) died, so it can be reproduced for free. I bought the book for 1.60, and saw it for free once on one of the pages.

As soon as the books drop in price and more of the newer novels start coming out straight onto ebook, i'd love to invest in one...until then...


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Nomda Plume
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I only listen to books on tape if they are unabridged and read by the author. I figure if anyone will get the emphasis right, the author will. It actually adds a specificity of meaning which can be good or bad, depending on how much you enjoy helping to invent yourself the story you are reading.
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Survivor
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Yeah, the idea of charging as much for an E-book as for a hard copy that has to be shipped across hundreds of miles and has a significant chance of being thrown in the trash later is idiotic. Besides, they are only selling a single license anyway. It's just not right.

As for the emphasis, I think that an audio notation could be an interesting lead in to an expansion of the traditional punctuation we all deal with in our reading. If Audio books take off and are written with emphasis and pitch notation, that would naturally enhance reading as well. Just think, using modifiers like, "she said in a sultry tone" would be almost unnecessary.

Or not.


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Nomda Plume
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Saying, "she said in a sultry tone" is always unnecessary.

But Homeric greek had pitch and tone annotations on it, I just remembered. The accent acute meant rising voice and the accent grave meant falling voice and the circumflex meant uhhAAAuhh, just like it looked. The words themselves had completely different meanings depending on the tone of voice.

That's true of oriental languages, too, I think, isn't it, that the pitch determines the meaning?

I'd like to write a book in a brand new language that the reader had to learn as they read. But, ahhh, nobody would bother to take the trouble!

[This message has been edited by Nomda Plume (edited September 30, 1999).]


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Survivor
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It's true in English as well, that tone alters meaning almost completely. That's mentioned somewhere around here, umm... can't think of where just at the moment. In any case, it relates directly to the forum, something about how we can't communicate by tone of voice, so we need to be aware of that.

Lots of electronic communication media now permit 'tone' or emotives to be added to a text message. But I think that a emphasis marker and some others. Like, italics are good for emphasis, and bold is good for a more affirmative emphasis. Changing emphasis can make a huge difference in meaning.

Try the following one:
Well, of course Atrius was in the Sanctuary that night. It was his duty as a loyal servant of the priest.

[This message has been edited by Survivor (edited October 01, 1999).]


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jackonus
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I would love for my first novel to be published as an e-book only. (Of course, I would simply love for it to be published, but it'd have to be completed first...). Anyway, this all sounds so cool. I had a simple program that came with my OLD sound card. It was a text-to-speech processor. You could select the voice parameters to make it sound like a little kid, a girl, a boy, a woman, a man, an old woman, an old man, or an old woman who smoked too much (my personal favorite). It had that strange quasi-Scandinavian accent that you may have heard about with the technology for giving computer generated directions in vehicles (they nicknamed the computer Sven). I think that was just a by-product of the technology and easily correctable.

The pacing WAS a bit odd, but I suppose with some work you could fix that too.

But even without that, if people had to read a book on a screen, wouldn't that actually open up opportunities for us as authors and creative types. I know my book could really benefit from illustrations, and maybe even a hypertext jump or two. E-books can have that stuff in profusion without actually costing any more to produce (unless you HIRE the artist as opposed to scribbling the stuff yourself or copying things in from public domain digital images).

Imagine having a little dancing animation off to the side when you want to get the reader's attention!


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W.P. Morgenstien
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Forgive me for being the voice of dissention here, but I hope I don't live to see the day that the good old fashioned book is outmoded.

There is a certain something about real books that can never be replaced. I will be dragged,kicking and screaming, away from the shelves before I will give up the musty old things!

Who has never curled up with a quilt and a good book by the fire on a cold night? The feel of the paper, the weight and shape, the smell, the whole essence of a book - who in their right mind would want to lose that? Why on earth would you trade it in for a piece of hardware? The computer is great as far as it goes, but you can't quite enjoy that on the nights when the lights go out and you have to light a candle.

Call me old fashioned if you want. I don't care. Give me my cloth-bound Whitman and leave me in the corner. I'd rather have it any day than some computer screen!


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Survivor
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Hmmm, I think that most of the time I would rather have a computer than any given book, but... an e-book could be printed out, if you like. And with good...

Holy crap! What if... What if instead of getting rid of paper distribution, you just totally revamped it? Like, have a automated book binding machine in the back of a bookstore, and they could just buy rare or hard to find book licenses electronically, and then...

That's totally off topic though. Wait, no, it isn't. The fact is, it's really easy to convert an e-book into a print edition, in fact, if e-books became the most common mode of distribution, it would create a niche for book printing shops. They could handle any level of printing you wanted, from a 'Manuscript Version', in a looseleaf binder, to a common paperback, to a cloth or even leather bound edition. Heck, there could even be shops that would give it to you on gold leaf (for a price).

Well, I guess that means that e-books can never take over really. I mean, even if it becomes the most common means of distribution, the technology itself creates a market for book binders, and the craft of book binding is almost an artform already. As a value added sector of... It would be a matter of some shops doing hand work, and setting, and... Wow. Use an automated typesetter, or even... Rad.

But a Whitman edition? Give me Douglas Adams any day of the week over that.


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W.P. Morgenstien
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You know, you're not that far off base, there. They already do exactly that with sheet music - if you can name it, they can find it and print it instantly. No need to stock in advance, even.

It's really not a bad idea, I have to admit.

Still, give me the stacks any day.


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Survivor
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I know. The thing about a stack of book is that you can just walk in, peruse one of them, and you aren't commited to buying it. I've actually read entire novels without buying them, although I usually do buy something when I do that.

Still, a book shop can be a real joy, particularly one that has all the books that you want and none of what you don't want. Or, more reasonably, one that has a good selection well sorted so that there is at least one aisle that has only stuff that you at least find interesting. A binding shop would be inadeaquite in that regard.

Unless, they made the first couple of chapters available online. Still, they would probably not print out a run of the first couple of pages for free. Wait, no they could put the first chapters of several related new releases in a store copy, and let customers peruse it that way. Hmm. Do you think that most stores would be so clever? I can only hope. And just think, there would be a much better chance of meeting someone with a common interest that way Not that I am planning on meeting anyone with anything in common with me, but most people do. Or, not that they plan to, but they like to.


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W.P. Morgenstien
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hey....

Maybe e-books would have a good idea or two. You made the remark about having what you did like and none of what you didn't, but what if e-books could do that?

Just think how easy personal censorship would be! Hey, I don't like that paragraph - hit the delete, no more paragraph. How about an automatic rating system? You could put in say G or PG and all the bad words are automatically erased or replaced with lesser expletives. Any book could be good for any one, regardless of original content.

Of course there will be those who say that censorship is not okay at any level for any reason. And I'm sure there would be those who wouldn't be happy because hard drives don't burn nearly as well as paper. We'll just have to strike a medium somewhere, I suppose.


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Survivor
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Well, once you own a copy of a book, it's totally okay for you to then mark out or otherwise modify your own copy. The same legal status applies to electronic media, witness the case of a video store that was selling copies of Titanic and then editing them for a nominal fee. It's actually a question of property rights at that point.

And the Free speech thing, I mean, readers have a free speech right to modify and destroy stuff that they don't like, as long as they respect the property rights of the original authors.

After all, the freedoms of speech apply to all citizens, not just an elect few that have "artistic" credentials handed out by the government or powerful institutions.

I always love the way that some groups regard free speech as the sole province of those chosen by the "Official" media and the NEA and other such monolithic institutions.

Just kidding. I may love them, but I will not abide what they do.


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ducky
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I've been ignoring this subject, but WP and I started taking so I had to check it out.

Ok, between the two of you I think you made a convert. I need books, I love books, but but if you could get the services you were talking about I'd go for it.

I still say, as WP did, there is no comfortable way to snuggle up to a computer or even a lap-top. Find me something I can do that with and is easy on the eyes and I'm sold. hmmm, I was talking about reading you know.


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Survivor
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Right
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Jeannette Hill
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One of the concerns here was, "how does the author get their money?" I don't know much about the book world, but in the music world, the artist is paid up-front. That's why there are so many contract disputes; the artist has already recieved the money, so the company expects their music, (like with George Michael and Sony) or, like in TLC's case, the artists weren't paid very much and their records sold extremely well, so the record company made hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, while the group members got only a small portion of that. If this is how it works in publishing books, then whether a book is electronic or paper doesn't make much difference. I know that some authors are given an advance and then paid based on how many books are sold, but I don't know if this is always the case. Does anyone else?
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Survivor
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It's a matter of contract. When a writer signs a deal with a publisher, that contract can take most any form. Writers are generally more savvy than musicians, though, so 'up front' final payments that include all rights are rarer in the book business than in the music industry. In the case of an author publishing his own work, which may become increasingly common as E-book type licensing models become more usable, there is no distinction, so the author bears all the outlay, losses, and gains personally.
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Masdibar
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I saw something once in one of those non-eelek-tronic magazines about a display that was really a matrix of teeny little balls that were black on one side and white on the other, and were electrically charged so that you could have images on them, at very high resolution. But that's not what I was thinking about, really.

If we're envisioning a situation in which the writer's market has been exploded by the advent of self-publishing, how are people supposed to build reputation for themselves as writers?

Of course, I'm forgetting that the real reason for concern here isn't that there will be so much, but simply that there won't be enough really good stuff. How are writers going to be able to discipline themselves to be able to maintain a high level of profesionalism in their writing, when they only deal with the consumer?

My solution is that we all become rock musicians and make our stuff availiable for free on the Napster network.


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Survivor
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I think that reducing the cost of publishing tends to reduce the cost to the audience and increase the reward to the author. As for the worry about wadeing through really crappy stuff all the time, it's not as though only publishing companies can act as critical intermediaries.

I mean, think of just how much great literature was available prior to the invention of the printing press. (And I don't think that the percentage of worthwhile stuff will actually change all that much)


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