So, to my question: what do you think of publishing on the web? I assume those writing novels are probably focussing on print media. But what about the poets and shorts writers among us? Or heck, you novel writers with opinions! <grin>

I just want to get a pulse of the crew here regarding e'publishing (and here I'm talking web'zines not electronic (e-book) publishing). What's the value in it? If you don't get paid, does that matter (personal question, I know)? How is it different than vanity press or self-publishing my work on my own website? Do print publishers consider e'zines as legitimate publishing credits when submitting queries? How do you view them in the whole culture of writing?

With that said, I would likely not publish a short story online... I couldn't give a real good reason why, but doubt that I will ever try to get published "that" way, unless it was a substantial e-zine or spin-off of a print magazine. I don't care about the $$, but e-zines feel like "self publishing." This may totally be wrong, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's just how I feel.

Deep breath. Ok. I'm ready now.

There are several types of e-zines. The ones you want to stay away from are the self-publishing type. Think Theamstream--(even though they did pay)--- The difference?

EDITORS can I say again EDITORS

Next--SELECTION PROCESS.

If you choose to go with an e-zine, you want a traditional one. Does that seem an idiot's statement? How can an e-publisher be traditional!

Here we go---think of how you send to a traditional publisher—you query, you get a response, they have said yes(lets say), you get an editor(a real editor not a wanna be), you do re-writes, your story appears. Whoooo Who!

Ok—so what does that tell you? Check the submission’s page—do you just apply for membership and then post your story? Wrong. Bong. Beep. Don’t go there. That is self-publishing and a stupid way to go. IMHO

So, do they have a selection process? Will you get an editor? Look at the other stories. Hmmm---lots of mistakes here that a first year grammar student wouldn’t make—wait a minute this looks like an editor never touched it. Bingo! Go to a different site.

That is where the difference is. If you “post and go” even if it is a paying site, it is self-publishing. If you go through a traditional submission’s process and they have editors, and you do not pay them, then it is not self-publishing. Does that make sense? It’s late here and I have been working until the screen is blurry.

I do a column at Wild Child aimed at beginning writers—think I’ve said this—oh well. You may want to check them out. I did two on e-publishing and your rights. (yes, on zines as well) Spicy green aims mostly for SciFi and speculative fiction—Wild Child is an all around literary magazine, we publish anything but porn, and gratuitous violence.

So what are the advantages? You get experience working with an editor. Believe me, the first time that you get a true red line from an editor the experience can be—well---devastating comes to mind. Just ask anyone in my crit group. (just kidding) LOL Many e-zines are willing to work with new authors, and want to. Most are willing to touch on things that are cross genre, controversial, experimental, told in an unusual style or voice.

Also consider this---SciFi and Fantasy Magazine (now we all know who they are—right?) publishes previously published stories. They buy second rights. Cool beans. I send them a story I had on my web site. Yeah ok. They may look at it.

But if it has seen an editor’s desk—uh screen—then my chances improve. Add some number to it like—this story has been previously published by **** and received 50,000 hits—bingo—they will most likely read it. Seem an impossible number given that Asimov’s Magazine has a circulation of only 50,000? (according to The Writers Market) Not so. I have a serial that averages at least that every month running at Wild Child. That e-zine received 89,000 hits last month. There are those places that buy second rights. It saves them time editing and they know if a story has been previously published that it is polished. (if it was published, not self-published ala post and go.)

So the choice is yours. It is easier to get a story on-line with an e-zine for the simple fact that they have less outlay than a paper publisher. Yes, they have gotten a bad rap---anyone here read some of the stuff on Theamstream? Ugh! Not that all of it was bad but so much of it was that they went under. The bad ones are dying out. Thank whatever you worship or don’t worship. But the experience as I said can be huge boost to your ego, and provide experience you will need to make it in the paper world of publishing.

IMHO anyway. (gotta add that disclaimer)

Shawn

DargonZine is one of the oldest and in my opinion, best internet storylines going. While the editing process is more of peer review, the other writers on the board are quite professional and knowledgeable. In addition, the two editors do frequently post on the forum board (which you must be a writer working on a Dargon story for them to be allowed on).

I do suggest you look it up. While the readership of Dargonzine is only a few thousand, it is a way of building up a fan base (similar to how I built up one on the Relic forum boards before they faded away).

The information on DargonZine is below - this information was cut and pasted from one of the stories and is found in each issue.

DargonZine is the publication vehicle of the Dargon Project, a collaborative group of aspiring fantasy writers on the Internet. We welcome new readers and writers interested in joining the project. Please address all correspondence to <dargon@shore.net>or visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.dargonzine.org/, or our FTP site at ftp://users.primushost.com/members/d/a/dargon/. Issues and public discussions are posted to the Usenet newsgroup rec.mag.dargon.

DargonZine 14-6, ISSN 1080-9910, (C) Copyright July, 2001 by the Dargon Project. Editor: Ornoth D.A. Liscomb <ornoth@shore.net>, Assistant Editor: Jon Evans <godling@mnsinc.com>. All rights reserved. All rights are reassigned to the individual contributors. Stories and artwork appearing herein may not be reproduced or redistributed without the explicit permission of their creators, except in the case of freely reproducing entire issues for further distribution. Reproduction of issues or any portions thereof for profit is forbidden.

Many mainstream "dead tree" magazines have circulations of less than that. It can be said that not every visitor is going to read every story--I agree, but I also don't read every story in a magazine I buy.

I agree it is a personal preference. And my preference is paper. Surprised? My novel is with an agent that will, I hope decide to represent it and that will help me sell it to a paper publisher. I have a good relationship with several e-publishers of books----I could go with one of them--but I agree it is so very easy to look at a book or magazine and say---this is it. I have done it. While words on a screen are just that--words on a screen. Look I just put some on the screen.

My point was in my overtired way--that a person may want to consider it even if they never re-sell what they write for an e-zine. It's the old circle---you need experience for the job but no one will give you the job so how do you get it? Even in the job force volunteering can be the answer. And on your web site----you've given up those rights and all you can say is this was posted on my web site. Somehow saying this has been previously published by---just sounds better in my query letter. And there are many e-zines that pay in the pro range.

<shrug> But the jury is still out on the issue of e-publishing. I always like to think of what people said about paper back books—penny dreadfulls---these will never be big—who wants a flimsy paper novel? Or something close to that, anyway. They also thought they had no literary merit.

I guess I suport the e-publishing world because I write on the fringe of what is accpepted by the publishing paper world.

Shawn

I state, please find enclosed my heroic fantasy story "Forge of the Night Bird" which has been previously published by Wild Child Magazine. <<I have already checked with our Editor in Chief to see how many hits the story itself received.>> The story while there, received *** number of hits. Further examples of my work can be found at--give your web site or the web site of other e-zines you have written for.

I did in fact send such a query to SciFi and Fantasy Magazine for the Forge story. I provided a short synop of the 15,000 word story. They asked for the complete story. I received a hand written rejection stating that while he enjoyed the read very much that it was too violent for their needs at this time and he suggested several other magazines that may be interested. I am now waiting on responses from them.

The next part—how well the credit is received, that is based on the magazine that you were published by—I would not say I had something published by Theamstream—nor any other post and go site. They will check out the site. At Spicy Green there are many pro e-zines --- 3 cents a word and up remember --- they will be well received because an editor knows they are not going to invest money in a writer that can not produce good results. The semi-pro zines are going to be well received—ok this mag is just starting but this writer has worked with an editor and produced the final product. Good. The non-paying --- they will take a look at one, the submissions page to see that it is not a post and go. They will also consider that you worked with an editor. That counts, believe me.

I have had writers who I could not work with because they argue with me—but I was trying to say this. Ok, then try it this way—but, but you don’t understand---my point exactly and neither will the reader—then I don’t hear from them for weeks. (if I even let it go that far) (which is one of the reasons it is hard for new writers to break in) I also list any writing that I do on a volunteer basis. I was in charge of advertising for our local area Cub Scout Day camp. I made flyers, wrote letters, wrote ad copy for radio and TV ect. I list paying things I have done. I do restaurant translations, and create American menus that are more attractive than a type written sheet inserted in the German menu. I do several newsletters, some paying some not. I keep copies of all these in a clip file, many scanned and on 3.5 floppy to send with a query. I also do speaking engagements on Internet publishing and Web writing opportunities. (big surprise right?)

A writer writes. Every paper and e-zine that cares about their publication wants to know that the writer can and does write. The written word in any form lets them know you are serious. (And I cannot say this enough—this does not include a posting on your web site or a friends)(They work for the further examples part though) You need credits. Credits and clips will get you noticed above the others in the daily slush pile. And remember this commandment of query letters—never state that you have not been published. If you have no credits better to skip the words—I have never been published but----

Ughh! I have done it again. Long winded me.

Shawn

Der.

For whatever it's worth, I'd rather have my stories printed in hard copy publications because then I can give copies to family members who aren't into email and the internet. (Like my mom.)

Also it is a good idea to keep a printed out copy of the published page for your clips file.