I recently wrote a short story. I like it, it's got good characters, good setting, and I think that it's one of the best things I've ever written. One problem -

There's no plot.

Does it have to have a plot?

Yes. Otherwise, it's not a story - just a bunch 'o' nice bedtime tales - and even they have plots. The problem is, I just can't think of one to fit it. A good plot would be intriging. A plot to fit this story would be a bedtime tale, or, worse, something from Exodus. Except for one thing - it's not a kid story, and Exodus didn't really have much of a plot either. Does it really have to have that good ole problem-resolution? Or can it just be a story - and I think it's pretty darned good w/o one.

Literary fiction, on the other hand, doesn't need to have a definite plot. For example, Ernest Hemmingway's short story, "Hills Like White Elephants," is just a conversation between two patrons at a local bar. Hemmingway doesn't have a plot -- rather, he is tyring (I think) to evoke in us the experience.

Now, I'm not too sure, but I think there can be "literary SF/F." Why not?

But then, what does what I think really matter? I'm not the one buying the story. So if you really like it, send it out an see what happens. And if it gets rejected, send it to another editor, and another one, until either the story is sold or you run out of editors.

And if it doesn't get sold, it doesn't mean that it sucks. It just means that this one piece doesn't fit the market right now.

If you write for yourself, you can write pretty much whatever you like. But, IMHO, the characters create a plot by themselves, whatever you want it or not. What I mean is: Don't they have problems? If they do (and some problems they, surely, must have!), then the plot is about the characters' problems.

Now, if you write to sell, then you must have a plot that draws the audience (or the editor, more like it ). If it doesn't do that....

the issue, i think, is in how you define plot. for example, a plot can involve conflict, but conflict isn't neccessarily a plot.

i think in short works, a "plot" per-say (sp?) isn't needed. as long as it involves the reader (you know, stimulates them either through the senses, through an event, or through thought) it's fine. it should include a sort of conflict either for the reader or between the characters. if it doesn't, then what's the point of reading it?

TTFN & Lylas

Also, though I may consider it highly untertaining, there are no true problems. There are problems, they just come at the end of the story, a sort of what happens next kind of thing. However, I've noticed that a lot of short stories don't have here's the problem where's the solution plots - they are merely great and highly entertaining stories.

Obviously Exodus wasn't written as a work of fiction and as such probably doesn't have what we would consider to be a "plot". However, it works as a piece of literature because it has a point. Namely to identify for the Children of Israel their origins as a nation, why they should worship God (see Ex 20:1,2,11) and the history behind their religion. Some scholars even assert that Exodus (among other Biblical books) were written as propoganda to explain why Israel found themselves in bondage to the Babylonians. There are more points to the book of Exodus but these should be sufficient to get the idea across.

Now, what is my point? Funny you should ask. In order for a piece of literature to work, whether it be fiction or non-fiction it must be meaningful and relevant to the reader. If what you have written is meaningful to you chances are it is meaningful to others as well.

Secondly that which appears to have no plot on the surface may in fact have one at a deeper level. Certainly in the case of Exodus the enitre conflict between Pharoah and Moses contains elements of good story telling. There is tension which must be resolves, a strong protagonist and a strong antagonist and supprisingly a plot. Will the Israelites be freed? Will pharoah find some way to overcome Moses and his God? And while it may not be captivating reading in the modern sense, it certainly was for the ancient Hebrew.

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A story must have some kind of hook that draws the reader in. Whether that be a strong plot, powerful characters, fascinating technological ideas or moral connundrums.

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Hey, good point! I'd never thought of it that way.

What is a connundrum?

Chad-
It is not a "plotless thing", thank you very much, it is my baby.

As a general rule, don't take it personally when engineers say stupid things. We don't know any better. My interpersonal skills are more adapted to electron microscopes than people. (Speaking of, I'm late for my session on the 200CX...)

Sorry.

PS: conundrum ~ dilemma

With that said, I recently listened to the unabridged audiobook of "The Death of Vishnu." I absolutely loved it and marveled at the book, in part because it's one of those 'literary fiction' books that I've never read before outside a class. It had the most evocative, lyrical, and engrossing narrative I've ever read... and it was unique. The way the author strung this word to that was so different and unique, that it was like discovering a book for the very first time. HOWEVER, there wasn't much of a plot. There was conflict, but minor trivial conflict, and there were definitely storylines to the story... but it didn't have a plot like most people think of it, or like what you usually find in novels. But even without it, it stands on my top 5 list of books.

Hope that helped some.

I figured you weren't being snotty. I'm sorry if my post came across like a false start in the fourth quarter with two minutes to go. In otherwords I wasn't trying to criticize you.

Also a great way to improve your vocabulary is that "word of the day" toilet paper. I personally don't have it so I have to rely on the old fashioned dictionary.

Conundrum - "Anything that arouses curiosity or perplexes because it is unexplained, inexplicable or secret."

--Ty

No caning please!

Soule, if an editor tells you he or she wants stories with plots in them, remember to send that editor only stories with plots in them.

If you agree with Damon Knight, however, a story doesn't need a gigundus plot to qualify as a story.

I strongly recommend that anyone wanting to write short fiction find a copy of Knight's book CREATING SHORT FICTION and read it (more than once). He discusses plot and other important stuff.

Knight is great when used in conjunction with Card's Characters and Viewpoint (to put meat on the skeleton Knight gives us) and my personal favorite, Bova's Writing Science Fiction That Sells (to make a character into a SPECULATIVE story).

Kathleen:

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My take on what Hills says about plot is that short stories follow OSC's "C" structure--from his M I C E analysis of stories--in that they are basically about characters and role changes.

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Was he discussing fiction in general, or specifically SF/F? I think many SF/F stories fall more into the "I" or "M" categories.

Science fiction got started with ideas--what if--and that is pretty basic to it, but if solving the puzzle is the only thing a story has going for it, it often ends up being a punchline story, or a "I fooled you" story where the writer plays a joke on the reader, or a short story that really ought to be the first chapter of a novel (as in, now we know what's really going on here, what are we going to do about it?).

Not only should science fiction be about the idea, but about how that idea affects the characters, how it changes/upsets their lives, how they try to find stability, how they try to find answers they can live with, how they try to fix what's wrong, how they use the idea to make life better, and so on and so forth.

I submit that the strongest science fiction involves characters having or using or understanding new ideas and being affected or affecting their surroundings with those ideas.

That type of story just shows a snapshot of a some characters in a situation. It is possible for the situation and the characters to remain completely unchanged at the end of the story. Many episodes of some television shows would qualify. M*A*S*H did several very good "slice of life" episodes.

In my view this type of story can be very powerful. Instead of conflict in a traditional plot, the reader unconsciously feels the contrast between her/his life and that depicted in the story.