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I intend for my current writing project to be the first in a series. I have created a world (actually a Universe) in which this novel takes place, and I intend to have many more follow it.
Thus, in OSC's terms, my first novel is going to introduce my milieu. It is also going to introduce the major characters which I will follow in most of the series, which will continue to reveal parts of my milieu.
The problem is that I also have a strong plot for the first book. It is going to be an idea story, with a mystery building from the first page and resolving at the end.
Further stories set in the milieu may or may not be mysteries. The plot of this book might never be mentioned again, but the characters and their environment will always be mentioned.
I am struggling to integrate these elements. Currently, I introduce the concept that will form the mystery on page one, then spend 40 pages introducing the characters and milieu. At the rate I am going, I will be on page 100 before the characters start actually solving the mystery!
I like the story as it is, but I am worried that by the time the characters and milieu are introduced the readers will lose interest in the main mystery.
I am introducing my characters and their world by showing a series of key, exciting events that shape them into my heroes. The problem is that these events will be so important to the ongoing milieu that they are taking a lot of pages. The mystery, the actual plot of the story, keeps diminishing.
The problem is that I am trying to begin at the beginning, and I have two different beginnings that take place at different times.
posted
If possible, start with few characters, then encrease them. It actually even helps you as a writer, I think. Of course, if you have something else in mind, that's just my opinion.
Also --in contrast to what most people advice-- I would advice you to have a prologue where your world is introduced, in a general way. Most people say that this will put off the reader, but personaly I enjoy this kind of prologues; for me, they 'set the scene' for what will follow. Prologues I don't like are those that automaticaly throw you into action that ends in somekind of mystery. To sum it up, I like the writer to introduce me smoothely in to the story. So I think that your 40 page introduction would work for me.
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From what I've been able to gather, it looks to me like maybe your first novel has split itself into two separate plot threads, one that follows the main mystery and one that follows the events that turn your characters into heroes. The latter thread has begun to dominate the story.
My question back to you is: how much integration is there between the character thread and the mystery thread? Does the mystery actually influence the lives and actions of your characters as you introduce them to the reader? Does it drive the story? Or does it just die away while your characters romp through your universe in the beginning?
I think it might help if you have progress in one thread tie into progress in the other, so that neither aspect of the story gets left behind. (Though that's easier said than done!)Otherwise, you might try throwing small hints about the mystery that ripple through your character's lives from the start, so that it will stay at the back of people's minds until the characters start solving it.
I hope that some of this helps, Doc. It's about as much as I can give without knowing more about the novel, or reading it myself.
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I think that this problem solves itself rather neatly if you have a person that is investigating the mystery you mentioned as one of the main POV characters.
As an investigator, s/he would have a great deal of opportunity to look about in great detail, and would be thinking in great detail about what s/he saw around (in terms of trying to relate it to solving the mystery--i.e. "the smeerps were varlakking about, which was hardly unusual, but if they have been doing that last vonka, then how would the tubalar of the Rinmbat have eekmaored past them?" which you explicate by having the investigator think about in detail, in order to get a more frapulative gnomanis of the problem).
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Without actually seeing the story, it would be hard to offer any specific advice. That's why I'm going to give some broad suggestions. Mileu description, I find, it dull and cumbersome if you spend five pages (or even more!) on it. A paragraph or two is fine; describe eight suns setting or whatever, that's dandy. But major mileu objects in your world, I would say, should only be described as they become central to the plot. I'd also suggest that if your characters don't see something, don't describe it. The same suggestions go for characters themselves. I had a similar problem to you, in that I needed to introduce ten characters at the start (only a few would be central to the plot, but they all needed introduction so that the reader wouldn't be surprised when they popped up from seemingly nowhere.) I went for a bit of introduction for all, and then introduced the main characters again (in a way) in more depth. Whether it worked or not, I've yet to see. Hope I've helped. If I haven't...*shrugs*...sorry. JK
Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
A problem I have with a lot of scifi/fantasy is the unrealism of the character's world. Not in the obvious way but in the presentations. Like having a protagonist that dropped out of school giving me an astrophysic lessons because the author wants to tell me about three moons. Mainly the problem is that even if the character is "in the know" he should be so used to it that any description should be flippant and off handed. Otherwise you go on for page and page about the world but no one can believe your character would do that. Human beings have an enormous ability to shrug off the natural, so therefore I would introduce your world very slowly, very slowly. Don't even mention the planets name for a while. I can't recall the last time I discussed my location as "Earth." I'm more concerned about the city.
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Doc, unless your books are all direct sequels (or some such relationship) to each other, they are likely to be read more as stand-alone books than in order (as a series).
Because of that, you will probably have to reintroduce the aspects pertinent (to each book) of the milieu each time you start a new book.
If you don't lay the burden of introducing the whole universe on one book, but let it be spread among all of the books, as I am saying you are probably going to have to do, then you can worry less about how much to put in this first book, and think more in terms of what you can get away with leaving out.
Deciding what to leave out is something short story writers worry about more than novel writers, but I really think you may need to take that approach here anyway.
The next level of detail in my problem goes like this.
I introduce the mystery in the first page. But the way the mystery is set up, no one in the world knows it is important. To them it is just an abstract concept, and people refer to it the same way that you and I might refer to Global Warming or the writing of Nostradamus. It's just something that might signal danger many years in the future.
Starting on page two I introduce one main character, then another pair of main characters in a seperate plotline. It takes six years of adventures completely unrelated to the mystery before they all come together and suddenly realize that the mystery is very important.
At this rate, those six years are going to take about 100 pages. In my mind I need those six years to give character background, as well as introduce the many forces that will work against them trying to solve the mystery. Those six years are not boring, they are simply time spent with more immediate things to do than work on the mystery.
I do not expect you to be able to tell me how to avoid those six years / 100 pages. What I want are your opinions: will readers let me get away with a six year / 100 page interlude before the characters start solving the mystery?
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Only time for a short reply, but my gut says yes, as long as you have other minor conflicts or mysteries (related or not to the larger mystery, but probably related) to drive the story those 100 pages. There needs to be something intreguing about the 6 years other than simply 'six years in the life of' narration. If it's compelling, and building towards the larger story, I'd be right there with you. In fact, if you can do it in such a way that each one or two minor plot line/introductions are interesting, but seemingly unrelated at first, then start weaving them together, I'd find that much more of a 'wow' factor as I start to see how the threads weave to make the tapestry.
Posts: 151 | Registered: Feb 2001
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So far the feedback from my writer's group has downplayed the problem for which I started this thread. It seems that JP Carney is right. As long as I keep the current events interesting, readers will grant some leeway in overall plot development. I think I can sustain it long enough.
Epiquette, FWIW I have established a pattern of short passages of "flashforward." In these the reader overhears parts of a conversation that will take place later in the plot. These give me the opportunity to show one major character's immediate reaction to an event, then a long term reaction hinting at its deeper relevance. They also give me the chance to keep reminding the reader that the characters will get around to working on the mystery eventually. It seems to be working.
What I mean is, rather than presenting readers with a whole load of info and nothing much happening, mix it together and introduce parts of the world as they are neccesary. Say what is happening, or known to the particular character who is at that moment opening themselves to being scrutinised by the reader. There is also, I personally feel, a great deal to be said for not telling everyone everything about the fantasy world. An imagination is the most potent part of any book and I personally try to leave as much as possible to the readers own perceptions. Tolkien was a master of mystery and with such passages as "Gandalf fell beyond time and knowledge" leaves a vast ammount for the reader to make up for themselves. This probably doesnt help you much but I hope it has.
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Actually, Heimdall, I recently read OSC's Characters and Viewpoint. In it he points out that sometimes showing is preferred to telling, other times the opposite is true. He includes examples in the text which make the argument very compelling.
I have begun to make use of this concept in my story. I have an action scene in which I use show techniques, and then I have a more emotional scene in which I use tell. I jump back and forth depending on what seem to be the most fun to read. It looks like it will work well.
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Doc, too much time jumping can be confusing. Keep the differences distinct and weave all the independant parts into a cohesive whole. The more developed a situation the more believable it is, no matter how strange the world is. Also, the average reader will not be critiquing the style differences in your narrative, they will be looking to get a feel from a story. As long as it all feels right, you can get away with just about anything.
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I hate to open a thread so old, but his kinda intriged me. It's one of the things I've always hated about writing straight-up sword and sorcery fantasy. I hate thinking of names for people, and dwarves, and other magical creatures. Although, reading Terry Goodkind helped me with this naming his characters normal names.
The other thing I hate is creating a country. I want to write a story about characters I have no interest in drawing maps that will take up the first six pages of my book were it to be published. I hate when authors are more concerned with the lay out of the land then the characters. If you pay to much attention to the world the reader will notice, and if you don't pay enough attention the reader will notice.
It's something that will takes a lot of work, and your goal is to have the reader not notice and just feel at home with this fantasy world you've created. It's a pain in the @$$!!!!!
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To get a new world to work, to really work you have got to present it to readers as a realistic possibility or even a realistic might have been. I cannot stand those books who just throw a map at you with a few rubbish names that mean nothing but must sound ok, mostly in their own dialect! and then expect you just to believe in the characters. I find it annoying, lazy actually when a writer just lobs out any old tat just to get the book into print. I am not saying that poor maps make a poor book as that would be silly, just that if you are writing about a new world then you have to present it realistically. I am a true believer in working to the last detail. Start with a map and construct the names as you go along recording their linguistic root and so forth. This will give birth to loads of ideas before the book begins! Be prepared to throw away the map if it doesn't suit. Then the story will have good strong roots and will appear all the more realistic. Devise a history for the world, done in a timeline and again be prepared to change it entirely as you go along.
Introducing it is difficult but does not need to be done in one fell sweep. A little bit at a time, as per the readers needs and leave something out but hint at it, that way the reader starts to build up an eagerness to read on and discover more.
Good luck, it sounds as if you want to do this in detail.
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I think that if you don't want to do the work of creating a detailed world, then there is little reason not to use one that comes ready made, about which you personally have some knowledge.
There is no reason, after all, that you couldn't just write your story as being about the world that you are familiar with.
On the other hand, there is a very important reason for you to do the work of creating your world in detail if you're going to have a lot of characters poking about inside of it. If there are discrepancies, your characters will run across them and your audience will notice.
But just because you have drawn a map, worked out the currancy and economy, devised a system of government, sundry occupations, caste system, religions, and even written the rules of the peculiar varient of poker that people there play in dark corners of the somewhat derivative taverns, you are under no obligation whatsoever to present any of this to your readers except as they seem to the POV character (if, indeed, said character ever encounters them, which is uncertain).
My own "fantasy" setting is set in our distant future, but none of the POV characters know this and neither will any of my readers (unless I tell them them outside the confines of the narrative). The setting comes from my own thoughts on technology, humanity, and the endless but really quite unsurprising (at least, my personal role model has never been surprised by anything that humanity has ever done with technology) interaction between the two.
Create a world large as your imagination can devise, and precise as your expertise will allow. But remember that it is your characters that matter, not your imagination.
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