posted
Heimdall brought up an interesting issue in the Naming Names thread, that I thought would benefit from its own.
He mentioned, "...It is so very difficult to write about a world that you have not experienced and when dealing with fantasy the old world is either Europe or the Mediterannean basin..."
So the question is Where do we base our own fantasies that we want to tell a story on?
I like to try to extend beyond what is familiar to readers, as many of my fave authors have... that is to say creat my own mythology, based on where ever it is supposed to take place for that "race" of peoples. To say that you base your book's mythos, on those that already existed, is fine, it can't be a "rule" when writing fantasy, can it? My fave's like the Eddingses and Jordan, went to great lenghts to create societies based on many different cultures, and it's true that they based their cultures on those present or past from the myriad of countries around the world.
What made them successful was not where they limited their fantasy worlds, (the range of races in Eddings' or Jordan's worlds would be extremely cramped in europe alone), rather it was that they tried to envision the cultural aspects of their peoples in a broader, worldwide stage, illustrating how different our own world cultures are.
Such is what I strive for when I create my own new mythos in a story, and sure it will have cultural influences from historical mythologies, but should we really limit ourselves to a particular area, when the whole world is rich in Mythos?
IMHO
Dave
May the light of creativity shine on the hearts of those willing to share it.
posted
"...It is so very difficult to write about a world that you have not experienced and when dealing with fantasy the old world is either Europe or the Mediterranean basin..."
My definition of "fantasy" is simply: Anything imagined that can't be realistically obtained.
Whoever thinks that fantasy is limited to the recreation of society in the old world, Europe, or the Mediterranean have forgotten such wonderful works as "Through the Looking Glass" by Lewis Carroll which is every bit as much "fantasy" as anything by Tolkein.
posted
No need to get so heated. All I am saying is that it is easier to write about something that you have experienced. I was brought up in Yorkshire. Its the Danelaw of old which basically means that our customs and folklore are related to those of the Danes. If I speak about this or base stories upon it I have a slight advantage, thats all, nothing special just a bit of an advantage. I might be a rubbish writer which therefore means that if a better writer comes along then he/she will have the advantage. Try not to read between the lines or use soundbyte quotes to encapsulate a very small piece of a larger one.
If I tried to write about an Aztec city I could read up on it, look at photos and speak to people who went there but I would without a doubt miss something. If someone went there, they might miss just as much, but the chances are they would pick up on much much more. It doesnt mean that I shouldn't write about it, that would be silly. Complaining about the terms old and new world is a bit redundant since they are known by those terms. Neither term is meant to be derogatory!
The best way to tell the difference between lets say an American writer of fantasy and a British one is to look at the dialogue. You cannot escape a lifetime of immersement in a culture. It will shine through no matter how hard you try to disguise it. I can tell the difference between one and the other at a glance. It doesn't mean that one is poorer. Anyway if I thought that people were going to become so inflamed by what I said I would not have bothered. By the way, I am not at all put out or annoyed by the replies. Its an interesting discussion. Dont take what I said harshly.
posted
Heimdall, I guess we really did get off on the wrong foot... I was in no way inflamed by your opinion, but rather the topic intrigued me so much that I thought it would be a great thread to develop. It's really interesting to hear where people get their inspirations from and what sort of cultural basis, helps us paint our picture. I just found your comments in the Naming thread a little generalised. True there are those whose writing has been coloured by their culture, but there are those, like myself, who try to go beyond the boundaries of our countries. Of course there is a limit to the success, but the scope of the imagination, in my belief, goes beyond the capturing of places visited in the text. There are just as many people who go out on an extraordinary world wide vacation, only to get home and find that they learned nothing, as there are people who are so inspired by a place visited, that they can write a whole chapter about a certain quaint bar visited. Conversely there are those who spend all of their lives at a particular place and never develop creatively beyond their blue collar job, in the same town that bar exists. We who do stretch to the beyond the mundane, can just as easily find that spark in works of Shakespeare, or books about him as from taking a stroll through Warwickshire.
I'm from Australia, and we're considered a fairly Multicultural society, my own heritage as half Japanese, means that I have certain ties to that culture in my genes, but have only recently spent any time in Japan, (this is my 2nd year), I wouldn't call my writing very "ocker", and I certainly don't write about "shrimp on the barbie", but nor do I feel compelled to write a fantasy novel about the Simpson Desert. I certainly hope that doesn't exclude me from being able to write a good one though. Of course there is no substitute for experience, (having completed a performing arts course, I thoroughly agree with trying to immerse yourself into the character to a certain extent), but say you're trying to write a battle scene, and you have a character who is so bloodlusty that he gets pleasure (or she) decapitating victims and partaking of a little of their blood, to spur him on for the rest of the fight... I personally don't have any experience with violence of any of that calibre, nor do I consider myself mentally unstable (enough, anyway) to have that a particular fantasy of mine, but I do have a vivid enough imagination to smell the metallic taint of the blood and feel it congealing as a trickle pours down the sides of that characters mouth to project the feeling of ecstacy he gets from the mere act.
It depends on the writer. Tolkein seemed based pretty well on Europe, other writers on Asia, other writers (i.e., Lewis Carrol) seemed to be tripping on acid.
I'd rather read something pretty well grounded on history, but write what seems right to you, no?
posted
Tripping on acid? That's good. Someone, who read a prior story of mine, asked me what I was taking that day!
Like Dave’s example, it was very violent, and rather crude in other ways (read adult) I got all sorts of weird e-mails when it was published. Many way out there weird offers----so I think some people do get the idea that if you write it, you must live it. Not so.
I still like what King said in his On Writing---Where do you get your ideas? I don't know.
I like the storyteller as god idea---the stories live in us and so do the worlds---we may do research to improve those tales---but they are already there and all we do is write them down.
Off to send Dave my latest novel---he offered to read it for me.
posted
Endrophines, too. I write best after a trip to the gym. 2 hours of karate, then, "I can't shower until I've written 1000 words" (or whatever) is a good technique, I've found.
This is really off topic.
Ahem.
Sorry.
[This message has been edited by chad_parish (edited January 28, 2002).]
posted
oh that's a good one too. I used to get that after a trip down the autobahn at 100 plus miles per hour. But put them together and watch out---keyboard here we come---where does fantasy come from---
a writer at their keyboard, after three Mt dews, a good hard workout and a trip home down the autobaun----weeee haaaa
Does anyone else here find that a glass of wine help or does in inhibit?
Sorry if I appeared to be generalising, it was not meant that way. It's difficult to convey tone in prose. I should be a better writer yes I know! Anyway I meant to say that there is nothing like visiting a place to get a three dimensional feel of it. Not going somewhere should definately not prevent someone from writing about it. It might make it a bit harder though...
posted
A brew tends to inhibit my creativity, personally.
About going to the gym: I advocate everyone take martial arts, or else NOT write physical actions scenes. I have basic skills with staffs, nunchucks, swords (and firearms, learned on my own, not at the gym!), as well as advanced unarmed skills, so I feel confident enough to write those kinds of scenes. However, I often become irritated by fight scenes that strike me as impossible. A word of warning.
posted
What thread was this? Oh yeah, fantasy and the base for it----well fight scenes, if you have never been in a fight, or have no learned skills----well you can watch fights and then describe them. But, and here I contradict myself--but that's ok I do that a lot.
There is something to learning the terms, and to knowing what a quarter staff feels like in your hands, or what it feels like to take a hard whack in the shoulder because--duh, you tripped over your own feet and the blow missed your shield. SAC (Society for creative anachronism)---a wonderful group that can teach you a lot about sword work and use of the staff---male or female. Chain mail is heavy, armor even more weight. It makes you clumsy to the point of ridiculousness sometimes.
Hand to hand----well that’s another thing. You can learn a lot on your own---but even taking a basic street defense course can teach you a lot.
I do weight lifting and have taken some self-defense classes. On top of the SAC stuff.
As to a glass of wine----well, I think it makes you think you are loosened up when in truth I think it inhibits you. Many great writers have admitted as much.
posted
Don't tell me you also need to know how to ride, to write about horses! Or dragons, if people ride them in your story... C'mon! We have imagination, don't we? We can imagine how it is to [.....]. That's enough. You can't possibly have lived all the situations you write about! That is especially the case in fantasy, where the characters travel in swamps, snowed mountains, ride horses (or even more strange beasts), navigate ships, cross premordial jungles-- you get the point! "Imagination is more important than knowledge," said Aenstain (sic). When you write fantasy, you understand what he means by that! You guys remind me of a comic story: a writer wanted to write about a prisoner, so she was trying to comit a crime and get herself in prison! Posts: 80 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Bardos, this thread started out in the Names thread---go back and read the start of it. I think the only one that has insied that you live it first is H---I won't even try to spell it without looking again. I agreed about the fight thing---on the bases that you can imagine it, and you can learn anything.
The point there was to make sure what you imagine is backed up with facts either real or learned for others as well. Because ther will be a reader that questions you on a fact or two that has done it.
Yes, fantasy is imgination. And this topic twisted itself in circles.
posted
You CAN write about things without having done them. It's simply BETTER if you can learn about or do them first (IMHO).
Example: I have never been on a space station. I had a story set on a space station. Therefore, I read about space stations, and found lots of interesting background details to add to the story, thus making it seem more real (I hope!).
posted
First hand is good, but not always best. As writers the key determinent is what our readers will find both interesting and believable, and sometimes first hand experience can lead us astray.
My own first hand experience is that a fighter can shrug off pretty much any non-fatal blow without too much difficulty if determined enough. I don't generally write people doing that, though. For one thing, I'm pretty sure that 'tis simply not true of everyone, for another, whether or not it is, a lot of readers won't believe that it is. I have lots of other first hand experience that I wouldn't put into stories for much the same reason (and others that I don't put into stories for different and personal reasons).
Anyway, your aim should be on the audience. But don't be afraid to aim a little high.
You know, don't take this personaly, but I'm sick and tired of reading that writers write for their audience. I personaly --and think many other true writers also-- write for myself, because I need to. If someone likes it, that's good. If not, I'm not going sead any tears about it...
About the other things you say, though, I agree.
[This message has been edited by Bardos (edited February 08, 2002).]
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