posted
My current effort includes a traditional romantic story line with a speculative twist. I am having trouble deciding how to resolve it, and would appreciate comments.
I have a lonesome man and woman attracted to each other, but a speculative plot element forces them to stay apart. The man and woman will have an adventure together, all the while experiencing great sexual tension. This part is working well for me.
The plot of the book screams for a romantic resolution. By the last page the two characters will be living in close proximity (aboard the same space ship) and the reason to stay apart will be removed. It could be a very romantic ending.
Unfortunatley, I want to use these characters in more books in the future. I would like to keep the sexual tension going, but I don't want to use a cheap melodramatic trick (e.g. just before the last page, she overhears him saying "I love you" to someone else, or he catches her in bed with someone else, etc.) I also don't want to have a second cool sexual tension element conveniently pop up as soon as the first one disappears.
posted
Unfortunately, that’s the problem with sexual tension. It’s sort of like Christmas; you’re anticipation is better than the day itself. I mean it wasn’t long before Friends got boring after Ross and Rachel got together. (sorry, I have a unhealthy addiction to sitcoms; I can name the cast of Wings and I liked Debra Messing a lot better on Ned and Stacy than on Will and Grace) Instead of waiting for the end of the story for them to hook up throw people for a loop and have their relationship culminate in the middle somewhere, and then try to come up with something that still keeps them apart. Maybe they give into their sexual attraction early because they’re lonely realizing a short time later it was a mistake, and then after a while the realize they really like each other but is unsure if how the other feels and presto the sexual tension returns. I wouldn’t string people along though because that turns from sexual tension to reader aggravation. Once the tension is over let it die. The other problem is you’re running into cliché territory here. I’ve been there, it seems no matter which road you take it’s been traveled a million times. Good luck.
posted
That's going to be a biggie for you, I've no doubt. Following John's lead, you can name a lot of shows that went down hill once the sexual tension was removed (Moonlighting, Lois & Clark).
Now, as a big romantic myself, I eagerly await the resolution of this kind of tension soooo... I don't know why you couldn't give in a little at the end. I'm not talking about some big sex scene, but something that implies that there is going to be some resolution (perhaps at long last, the conflict is over, they're able to be together, they talk, they lean in for a kiss, etc...) but also indicate that more is going to happen off stage. Then when your second book opens, you can simply introduce a conflict that keeps them apart to restimulate that tension. (Gosh, I sure didn't mean to use such innuendos!!)
I'll have to give it more thought, but there's my first blush idea...
posted
I have a few questions which you may or may not be able to answer before I pitch in my two cents' worth.
1) How long has this tension gone unresolved. If only a few months, well, you still have a dilemma, I guess. If it's been going on for YEARS . . . that's different. People don't like change . . . even good change. If after years of sexual tension, these two FINALLY find a release for that tension, now they're facing a BRAND NEW situation (i.e. interaction WITHOUT tension) which will make them both a bit uncomfortable. When the biggest element a relationship is built on vanishes instantly, there's a NEW type of tension which builds. YOu could play on that.
2) What exactly is keeping them apart?
3) Is the option open to resolve the tension in this book and start the NEXT book with your new tension? If a reasonable period of time has elapsed between the two books, a great tension builder would be to have these two be split up and lead the reader to the discovery of what caused it. Just a suggestion.
Anyway, those are the questions I had.
And I DEFINITELY agree about the Ross/Rachel thing. That's the biggest killer of most sitcoms is actually RESOLVING the romantic/sexual tension. Seriously, where would Ed be without it? Once that tension is resolved, there'd better be a brand NEW tension to take its place. If your romantic leads are going to hook up, there'd better be somebody dying shortly thereafter, or having a baby, or whatever . . .
I think the writers of Friends actually learned from that Ross/Rachel thing. When they finally got Chandler & Monica married off, the next season started RIGHT AWAY with Rachel's pregnancy. Now that the baby's here, we have the Rachel/Joey/Ross thing happening. Once that's done, who KNOWS what'll come next.
The same applies for any type of story. If you resolve that tension you have to have another one ready to go immediately, no exceptions. Otherwise, what's the point of reading? (incidentally, lack of tension CAN, if written well, be a source of tension for the reader. Point to ponder)
John, sexual tension may be cliche, but it's also an eternal problem. I think I've got a twist on it.
SiliGurl, my pacing is dictated by the story. While I could have the meet earlier, the thing holding them apart must begin at a certain moment and end at another moment. These moments are defined by the overall plot arc.
Falken: 1) The tension will go one for couple of years.
2) I can't tell you what is keeping them apart. I can only say that the woman comes to believe that if she has a relationship with the man it will lead to disaster. She gets it as a sort of religious message. The message does not come with an explanation of these dire consequences, but it does come with incontravertible proof that its source can be trusted.
Late in the story the trusted source will change its mind and say "Okay, now it's safe to have a romantic relationship." Only then will the trusted source explain those dire consequences. The details of this are the cool part that I believe are not cliche.
3) I consider starting a new tension in the opening of the second book a non-starter. I would either need to use something trite and melodramatic, or I would need to have another cool, non-cliche thing happen. That would be awfully convenient timing. OSC would say: "Oh yeah?" and close my book!
posted
Well, about the timing thing . . . it's up to you when to start writing the book. If everything's fine for the next 5 years, everything's fine, and there's really not much of a story. But why not start the second book when the story starts? I don't think THAT would be a problem.
However, that may not work with your story, so that's okay.
BTW, I'm INTENSELY curious about this story now. You must let me know when it's complete.
Now . . . here's my thoughts.
I think you need to play on his angst. If SHE has been the one keeping this whole thing apart for years, suddenly removing that tension and the ensuing letdown after the initial bliss might cause some feelings of suspicion on HIS part.
That's my big idea. *shrug* And it is just a thought. May sound a little melodramatic, but I think you might be able to spin it into something good.
posted
Please don't be offended I wasn't implying that your story was cliche only that when dealing with something like this it's very very difficult to avoid cliches. I know from experience. Sometimes I'll write something and feel like I just reinvented the wheel go back and read it and it's been done a 1000 times before.
I also agree with Siligurl and add my least to the names of hopeless romantics. If their relationship is not the main focus of the story I’ll want the characters to get it on and beg for a resolution. I like romance to be a side story, which is why I hate almost every romantic comedy I’ve ever seen.
JOHN!
[This message has been edited by JOHN (edited May 24, 2002).]
posted
Are you sure you need sexual tension to sustain the next book? Are there no other emotional tensions you can exploit?
What I'm driving at is (maybe; I haven't seen your book) marriage. The sexual tension usually ends at that point, but other emotional tensions flare up all over the place. I don't know; it's just something to think about. I have a bad habit of starting stories with a marriage...
On a different but related note, I am having serious problems with romance in my work. I can even point to the problem and name it: my age. I am fairly young (like, sophomore in college), and I have never had a mature relationship with someone of the opposite sex. I know I haven't, and I don't feel qualified to write anything about romance, because it is one of the most blatant aspects of any story. A writer either can do it, or he can't. I can't yet. But my stories all seem to involve some couple or another, even as a subplot. Usually these people are complications to the conflict.
What should I do? I know that if I write the romance, I will ruin my work to the point where I will hate it. But if I wait on it, I won't want to write the thing anyway. It will lose its magic for me. The only solution, it seems, is for me to get a man...
[This message has been edited by Brinestone (edited May 25, 2002).]
posted
Just to point out something that should be obvious, but sometimes we're not taught to think about...
Sexual tension is not necessarilly (or often, or even ever) resolved because two people have sex.
After two people have sex, the stakes in their relationship go up dramatically, yet there is no "certitude" that magically appears.
Many relationships fail after the first sexual encounter for just that reason, there's far more pressure on the relationship, and nothing has really happened to improve it.
And if we assume that we are dealing with a guy and a girl here, then after the first sexual interaction there are whole new issues that crop up to divide them and strain the relationship.
Guys really invented the idea of sexual tension, I think, because the presumption is that the only real question is whether or not two people will have sex, and once they do, there is no reason for hte relationship to continue (Hmmm, not just guys, but scummy guys at that ).
Assuming that this is not your underlying assumption, there is no reason that the tension in a relationship will be lessened becuase sex has occured. The sexual tension is far more likely to increase.
posted
Sexual tension is purely fictitious—it doesn’t exist in real life. At least not like it does in fiction. I mean, sure I’ve dated some woman in my time and wondered where it’s going to lead sexually, but that awkwardness you read about in books and see in movies and TV is horse shit. I think the reason sexual tension doesn’t exist in the same way is because you need a third party for it to do so. I’m not talking about voyeurism, but the reason sexual tension exist in fiction is because you have the audience rooting for these characters to hook up. That’s what creates the tension. I don’t think I’ve explained this as effectively as I would’ve liked to but maybe there’s someone out there that gets my point and can word it better.
JOHN!
[This message has been edited by JOHN (edited May 28, 2002).]
posted
I'm not quite sure I agree that sexual tension doesn't exist at all. it all depends on how you define it. Personally, I don't think there's anything necessarily sexual about it. It refers more to a tension rising from the interaction between romantically interested individuals. (Okay, not a perfect definition, but go with me here.) That tension may or may not be leading up to or motivated by the act of sex.
That said . . .
I know for a fact there is such a thing as sexual tension because I have personally experienced it. I've also witnessed close friends experiencing it.
However, it doesn't work like in the movies . . . at least not very often.
The unique thing about it is that it is almost without exception completely one-sided. Only one of the two people involved ever really experiences it. (Yes, my case included) Usually, when two people want to 'hook up' it happens and fairly quickly. If it's really a mutual sort of thing, there's not often a lot of tension involved. If there's tension . . . it's not often a mutual thing. One or the other person is flat out not interested, or haven't even considered the possibility.
Again . . . hardly an absolute truth, but that's been my experience.
posted
If I understand correctly JOHN, you’re saying that the tension arises not soon much between the two characters as it does between the reader and the character’s situation. Certainly that does drive the reader’s interest, but at least in my experience, such tension does develop between two people in a romantic relationship. I’ve found it’s more before the start the relationship – is this going toward a romantic relationship, or are we just really good friends, a “What the heck is going on here?” situation where you know what you feel (maybe!), but don’t know what’s going on with the other person or aren’t exactly sure, so can’t see where things are heading and have to wait to see how things play out. That creates plenty of weirdness and tension. I’d argue that most sorts of romantic comedies that play on the sexual tension theme end when the people form the attachment and acknowledge their position within the relationship, which may or may not include sex at that point.
As for the original question of the post, I must say that dragging out the tension is overly frustrating to the reader. I just finished a book that did that, and I’m still fuming about it. I’m also a big romantic at heart too, so… But there are so many other sorts of emotional tension that can be built in, and all the other trouble that the rest of life dumps on you, that I think something else could be planted in before the romantic resolution to cause all sorts of new havoc for the characters that would keep it interesting. Having the characters get together might end up doing very little to remove the rest of their problems, problems which are probably going to have an affect on their relationship as well, so that aspect keeps changing and shifting too. We all know that one happy moment doesn’t guarantee “happy ever after.” And say they get together, and things don’t work out quite right – there’s a whole new pile of tension and awkwardness, as anybody who’s had to deal with an ex can relate to.
And Brimstone, I’m not sure mature relationships are so “mature” a great deal of the time. Hormones make people act bizarre. Watch the other students and other people around you, some of whom no doubt would classify their relationships as mature, and see what I mean. Such watching might also give you ideas on how to incorporate such aspects of life into your work if you don’t feel you have the experience.
[This message has been edited by GZ (edited May 28, 2002).]
posted
Also tension can be created only by getting one characters POV. In my current story, I think the audience would have a good idea that the male and female lead are going to hook up, and I think that would want this to happen as well. Until the climax of the scene however you don’t know how the female feels towards him. You only see the male character pine after her and I think this creates some sexual tension. Although, the resolution comes within the first 35,000 words.
I hate to keep harping on the same thing, but again to me the key to writing fiction lies in your characters. (Sorry, but Ernest Hemmingway, and Nathaniel Hawthorne couldn’t talk me out of this theory.) I’m not accusing you of doing so, but don’t force a tone. If your characters are shy and introverted and start as friends then it’s quite possible there’s going to be some sexual tension. If you’re female lead is a tease, than again there may be an element of sexual tension. But if you’re female lead is the town slut, and it’s totally in her character to give it up on the first night, and this relationship is no different than her others, don’t try to draw out the sexual tension.
Let the characters progress naturally. Hell, let them write the story for you. If your sequel hinges on sexual tension and you can’t keep it going any other way, then it sounds to me like you don’t have a strong enough story to warrant a sequel. (that’s wasn’t supposed to sound as harsh as it did.) Go back to the Friends example. The sexual tension was created by Ross being a bit of a nerd and shy and Rachel being intimidating because Ross remembered her as the popular girl in high school. Those writers could’ve drawn this out a little more because of the characters, but outside factors such as ratings and sweeps month effected their pacing. Purposefully drawing out sexual tension isn’t true to your characters, though. The need to grow and mature not stay in the same place because it’s easier for you to write. (again, that’s wasn’t supposed to sound as harsh as it did)
FWIW the dominant culture in my milieu views sex and marriage very differently from what present day America does. My female character is an ordinary member of that dominant culture, while my male character has more old fashioned, traditional values. He has already tried to make one marriage work.
When they meet they are crazy about each other, but the Trusted Source will give a warning that they must stay apart. The woman gets the warning, but it is not a secret. The man knows about the warning and also trusts the source, but he is no less frustrated than she is.
It is not necessary for the same sexual tension to exist in the second book. As of now my plan is to write Book 2 with the characters happliy involved or married, which could give me a chance to have political tension instead. But I would have liked to keep the sexual tension going if I could find a way.
posted
Brinestone, you don't need to let age bother you. Your best writing will probably happen when you are writing to please yourself. If you want to write about a romantic relationship, write a romantic relationship about which you would like to read.
There are millions of young readers out there just like yourself, and they would love to read exactly the romantic situations that you would like to write. Just use your imagination.
posted
Survivor, I'm not sure I agree that guys invented sexual tension, and I definitely don't think that men are its greatest consumers in the fiction market.
Sexual tension is the whole purpose of a romance novel! A 150 page romance novel introduces a man and woman in chapter 1, has something keep them apart until page 149, then ends with a wedding on page 150. The entire time something is keeping them apart, tenson is building in the reader. The reader knows they were meant for each other and wants them to get together. When page 150 finally rolls around the reader feels a great release of the tension.
I am using a similar formula for the romantic subplot in my book, but with a speculative fiction twist intended to parody romantic novels and movies.
posted
Doc, my definition of romantic tension as it appears in most of the romances I have read is not the question "when will they get together?" but "when will they figure out that they are right for each other?" (Maybe I've only read romances involving a couple of dense/ proud/ easily offended/ whatever people).
Anyway, if you want the "when will they get together?" tension, all you need to do in later books is have something else in their lives (their careers, perhaps?) require them to separate for a while, and then one (they can take turns) runs into trouble that the other can help them with, and the tension will involve all the obstacles keeping them from reaching each others' side to help each other.
posted
Yes, Kathleen. That makes perfect sense and is useful to me.
I hadn't considered the question fully. In this case, they think they are perfect for each other and would love the chance to find out. But the Trusted Source puts them in the frustrating position in which they do not have the option of finding out.
The Trusted Source is part of the main plot, the romance is a subplot. Neither the characters nor the reader knows that the force separating them is temporary, by outward appearances it looks permanent.
I merely wanted to put a twist on a romance, I hadn't realized that the force keeping them apart puts my characters in a unique position. If I really dig into it, I ought to be able to come up with a twist that is even cooler than the Trusted Source itself!
posted
In my opinion the only people to survive this "almost a relationship thing" Is Bond and Moneypenny (and someday he will nail even her) Posts: 33 | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
The idea sounds intriguing and I hope that I get to see the finished product of this (everyone says that when someone comes with a story pitch, does anyone actually get to see the finished product??).
I really do mean it though. I do. Really.
Don't worry about never having had a "mature" relationship. The idea of a "mature" relationship is a big lie as far as I'm concerned. A relationship between two mature people will be mature. That's it.
And mature people are those who actively seek to be decent human beings.
So if you have a relationship with you and another person who are both mature people, that's a mature relationship.
Now, if you mean an involved relationship, where you're tangled up in each other's lives, you've got the keys to each other's houses and you actually consider each other in everything you do, then if you've not had one of those, don't worry.
It doesn't take too much imagination. Love is grand. It's also terribly cliche and uncreative.
Also, I would get kind of tired of a story that was largely dependant on sexual tension, just for the simple fact that I've never liked romance novels. When I was young and in middle school and early high school, all the YA novels were about romance and about people "discovering" themselves or something else disgusting. And the adult romances were the same thing, I found, but with dirty words and passages. Usually the plot would have been completely pointless without the romance and I disagree with that. In a novel, I think that a romance shouldn't be what makes the plot interesting. I think the plot should be interesting for its own sake, even if the characters weren't dying to bonk each other!
But however it turns out, I'd like to see it.
And what the heack is this Trusted Source?
(+/-) Georgie
<~ ~>
"That was horrible. If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud. I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it for another twenty five minutes. I'm not proud. Or tired."
posted
What really happens to sexual tension after resolution? Often one or both of the participants will wonder if there is something better out there. That's why I was a Remington Steele fan. I don't think they ever got together. And I was an X files fan until they moved it to Sunday nights. I don't know what really happened the last while, but it seemed like they were never getting together. These shows also have in common a semi-turnover in traditional male/female roles. Something the Wiggin love story is promising as well.
If you want to know what happens to people who always crave sexual tension, try watching DAYTIME TV. Also, you could skip your story ahead far enough that they have gotten bored of each other and one of them is fighting the temptation to cheat and somehow they triumph over this.
By the way, I was a sophomore thinking I didn't know enough once upon a time and now that I've been married 11 years I still haven't written anything. So don't wait! Just go for it.
quote:But however it turns out, I'd like to see it.
I hope that someday you do. FYI the romance is just a subplot to my science fiction story line. It will show one of the possible consequences of a new technological development. The more serious consequences make up the main plotline.
This might be a wild idea, but you might consider ending your story one or two pages sooner.
If there is closure to the primary plot thread, you don't necessarily need to resolve all the rest of the threads. Don't put them together on the last page. It might just be enough for the last line in the book to be, "Oh, your staying in cabin 1207? That's funny, I'm right next door in 1209." Or some other equally noncommittal thing.
posted
I admit that I skimmed a bit, so I apologize if I'm restating anything that's already been said.
From examples that I can find, you can handle taking sexual tension into the second book any of several ways. Here are a few:
1. Take a look at the Jurassic Park movies. Grant and Sattler were something of an "item" in the first movie, which created sexual tension because they weren't precisely "together". In the third movie (the second being a failure of the first degree), Ellie had gone on to marry somebody else and have a child. This did not erase the tension between the two characters; it was obvious they were still very attracted to eachother.
2. Have the characters have had a 'falling out' of some kind between books 1 and 2, having set up the likelihood in book 1. This happened repeatedly in the Die Hard movies; even though the lady in question didn't often show up.
3. Take my life as an example. I'm married, and there's still quite a bit of tension between myself and my husband. In real life, it never really goes away. Part of the tension in our situation specifically is built from conflicting schedules and the presence of children-- both of which act as obstacles for sex-- and part of it is that we have to deal with everyday life together; creating frustration, anger, mistrust, and the occasional betrayal that should be small enough to ignore but never really is. Blissful relationships are a myth; the reality is that living together is an endless opportunity for several different kinds of tension, only one of which is sexual.
4. Two adults who have committed to eachother can always work as a team against outside forces. Dangers faced by either will put the other through emotional trauma.
5. Take a look at the relationship between Ender and Novinha from Speaker for the Dead through Xenocide. Now /that's/ tension.
posted
May have already been said, but look at Han & Leia. There was the tension beforehand, but they are able to make some really good "memories" together even though they are married and have almost-grown kids. I think it would be a challenge to make a space-age marriage an even more exciting adventure. Sure, it is an adventure to have them finally get together, but the adventure can't end at marriage. It really should just begin, so they can fully experience the adventure as "one."
Posts: 17 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Man, it took me forever to dig up a thread that even remotely related to my question. It's a rather stupid question (and yes those exist both asked and unasked) and not worth starting a new thread for. It's just a minor wording detail I wanted to get your all's opinion on. Here's the sentance or two---
They continued that way for sometime, but it was not long before things began to progress, and the rest of their clothing joined his discarded tunic. The cool breeze was even more soothing when it was able to touch his entire body. Still on top of him, she rhythmically oscillated her hips. Her skin was damp with perspiration, causing more of the moonlight to be provocatively captured in her russet skin. Johan breathed heavily, panting in elation, and her breaths were just as short and uncontrolled.
(that's only 12 lines before I posted it and only four on my word processor program so I don't think I get in trouble) Ok, obviously this is out of context and there's a reason it sounds like a grocery-store-romance-novel, but my question is this. How does the word, oscillated strike you? I've looked it up and used a theasurus and it seems to fit by defintion, but I'm not convinced and wanted an opinion. The only thing I can think of is the stand fan in my bedroom. But in a sexual context does he word invoke the correct mental image.
The whole excerpt is a work in progress (after reading it again I hate the lead in "still on top of him * yuck *) Once again thanks, upon publication (if that ever happens) you guys will be in my acknowlegements page.
JOHN!
[This message has been edited by JOHN (edited September 11, 2002).]
posted
Well, I have a very third-grade reaction complex when I read hardcore 'romance' pieces like that. The whole thing made me cringe. So I'm not sure if my reaction to that particular word was just because. I don't think that the word "oscillate" was a bad one, though. There might be a better one that won't catch people up so easily. Anyway, I'm going to shut up since I already disqualified myself as being useful in this matter!
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
It's best to assume that the book you're writing is a stand alone even if you've got many books planned out. The publisher wants to buy a good solid book and see that it sells well before committing to buying another book of the same series. I just went through this with Baen. My series at Roc is doing well, but Baen still wants to see how my book for them fares before committing. Also it makes for a more solid book if you resolve it.
Besides, in book one they can say 'i love you' and then at the beginning of book two they've tried actually living together and found out it doesn't work...
If you're really trying to write a romance, then the book needs at least a chapter at the end where the characters deal with their relationship. If you're writing an SF with some romance, then a couple of pages at the end is okay. This will also depend on which publisher you send it to. If you send it to a traditional romance publisher, then its a romance without question. If you send it to a SF publisher, and then the whole romance thing is less written in stone.
quote: Well, I have a very third-grade reaction complex when I read hardcore 'romance' pieces like that. The whole thing made me cringe.
Ok, maybe I should explained better to avoid looking like a no talent hack. This is NOT a grocery store romance. I'm in love with contrast so the main character doesn't seem like that great of a guy, but he was once noble so he still has some admirable qualties. While I never come out and say it his virginity is implied. (this was at one time admired in men) The above excerpt is a dream sequence and is fueled by his limited experience and over active imagination. I also have a writing motif going; the main character is very literate and would have read or least know of bad romance stories. It plays into the climax---OF THE STORY!! get your mind out of the gutter. As I mentioned it's also a work in progress. Thanks.
JOHN!
[This message has been edited by JOHN (edited September 12, 2002).]
Let me preface this by saying that I hate sex scenes because 90% of them are gratuitous and don't advance the story.
That being stated, I think oscillated is a great word. It paints a very vivid picture.
My problem is with the word russet. Its primarily means a coarse reddish-brown cloth; it secondarily refers to a reddish-brown or yellowish-brown color. If your female character isn't an alien (or a direct descendant of Esau), you'll need to change it.
[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited September 12, 2002).]
posted
I really can't tell if oscillated is a good word or not. If it were a "true" scene, then the decision would depend on whether or not it is the sort of word your narrative voice uses throught the book.
Since this is part of a dream, the narrator is more closely bonded to the character. Thus, the word can also fit if it is the type of word the character would use.
When Mr. Spock describes sex he probably uses words like oscillate and sinusoidal. When Conan the Barbarian describes sex he probably uses words like throb and thrust. All you need to do is decide what fits this character's personality.
Yeah, I wasn’t sure about that one either. I was getting tired of saying, “her dark complexion” or similar such phrases. I was stretching and was never truly comfortable with the word.
I’ve described this before, but there a dream thing going on with the main character. Some tell the back stories some or just there to mess with him and some are just dreams. It does help to advance the story to an extent. The character is guilt ridden by the death of his former love, and then after spending a few months with this new woman he finds himself attracted to her, which presents a whole new set of problems. I’m having a hard time writing right now. I’m forcing a lot of stuff. I’m three seconds from reading what I wrote over the past week and screaming, “Shit! It’s all shit!” Left click---highlight---delete. It’s just such a depressing feeling to be chugging away for months and then suddenly getting to the point where nothing seems to come out right. Have you ever been in he middle of a story and suddenly felt like a four year old trying to explain quantum physics? It’s really starting to piss me off.
[This message has been edited by JOHN (edited September 12, 2002).]
quote:Have you ever been in he middle of a story and suddenly felt like a four year old trying to explain quantum physics?
It has happened six times to me while writing six different novels. Each one was abandoned.
I look at this in several ways. The great and very often superficial motivational speaker, Anthony Robbins, teaches that the most successful people in the world don't believe in failure. Instead, they believe in results. And after doing something, if they don't get the result they want, they examine the process, learn from it, and start over. (That's about the only part of Mr. Robbins' doctrine that I hold because I think it's the only part of his doctrine that is correct.)
I wasn't getting the results I wanted--and right now the only result I want is to finish a novel--so what I did was quit writing for a few months and spent the time reading novels -- especially literature, stuff by Walker Percy, Flannery O'Conner, Evelyn Waugh, Graham Green, and Ernest Hemingway. Some real masters of the craft.
More importantly, I began thinking about the elements of story telling, trying to figure out where I went wrong. What was particularly fruitful was a protracted discussion with a friend about why THE PHANTOM MENACE and ATTACK OF THE CLONES are bad movies.
What I discovered was that the results I got -- incomplete and abandoned novels -- were the direct consequences of a lack of planning. I hadn't thought about the cosmic storyline, the characters' storylines, the ending, scenes, etc. Or if I had, I hadn't thought about all of it would fit together.
I've also lowered my ambitions. Even OSC admits that he wasn't ready to write XENOCIDE when he was first starting out. My goal is to write about a 50,000-word novella, and I've spent the past few weeks getting organized. I plan to have a 7-10-page synopsis before I start writing.
I don't know if I will achieve the desired result. But I do know that I have a better chance of finishing a novel this way than by just sitting down and writing.
Finally, perhaps you just need to get away from your story for a while. Read a few books or write a few short stories. Stephen King got stuck halfway through writing THE STAND and spend two months trying to figure out what was going to happen next.
But whatever you do, do not make the same mistake I did: DO NOT DELETE ANYTHING!!! You will surely regret it later. Trust me, I know.
[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited September 12, 2002).]
posted
My story is actually mapped out pretty well. I have a good idea where I’m going it’s just getting there. It’s not worth giving up on, but it’s just aggravating me right now. It’s the head of steam and then coming to screeching halt. As I mentioned before, it’s time to get the plot moving along so I can at least start to wrap it up. The sex scene/dream sequence was out of desperation I think. It something I planned on doing, though. The setting and circumstances are the same as something that happened in reality, but with a different woman in the dream. I think it could really throw him for a loop and send him back into his state of depression since there is an element of magic involved in the antagonist invoking these dreams. There’s several factor, the story being one of them, that have put me in a pissy mood. So, I think I will heed the advice of others and let it be for a little while.
posted
I have to agree with what has been said about oscillating and russet. If you are going for a more romantic version of it, you might want to consider taking the oscillating sentence out completely.
Don’t hit Delete. Just open a new file and move on. Sometimes there are things in even the worst drivel that can be savaged. Later. When you’re more rational about it and can discriminate between junk and junk with potential.
Stepping back can be useful. I’ve had to do it, and it helped me sort out some problems I was starting to have (The problem of writing things that were going nowhere. Plot, must forward the Plot!). My new problem is getting back to the writing part, now that my schedule is all changed around and I’m out of my habit. <sigh>
quote: (The problem of writing things that were going nowhere. Plot, must forward the Plot!).
I think I like these chracters waaaaaaaay too much. Maybe I don't want to move the plot along because then the three of us couldn't "hang out" anymore. I know that a bit much, but it's better than the other excuse I came up with. The female lead is loosely based on this woman I knew until about two months ago and then we had a fallen out and are no longer on speaking terms. When I stop writing I'll have to offically let HER go. Yeah, it's a bit Freudian even for me.
I did mange to finish that scene it wasn't all sex, so maybe I can salavage it. I was thinking about shopping it around the fragments board, but there's too much backstory to explain.
Speaking of my previous post and the word russet, which I've since taken out, anyone know of a good word for brown, or dark or anything that would describe the complexion of a medium toned African American woman? It's fantasy so I can't go full R & B singer sayng things like carmel and honey brown. Just wondering. If not it's not that big of a deal.
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Any time you superpose a male and a female that way, your readers will probably not be paying a lot of attention to the particulars of your refined word choices.
That being said:
Russet is just fine for a dark complextion with a hint of reddishness.
Oscillate is find for any sort of rhythmic motion, but it makes "rhythmically" redundent (oscillation is always rhythmic by definition).
Back to what I said already. If a scene has a certain amount of prurient interest, then most readers will not care how it's worded. They will either skip it or not, but they won't really care one way or another about the particular words.
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I am so tempted to use Frappachino !!!!!! “The moonlight danced and swirled in her soft, smooth, Frappachino complexion.”
quote: They will either skip it or not, but they won't really care one way or another about the particular words.
As depressing as that thought is , I agree with it. It’s taken me nine months to get this far (it feels like I’m having a baby) and someone will finish it in a week. Personally, I liked the russet, but had my misgivings about it. Thank you for setting my mind at ease.
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Sorry, I have to disagree. The word "russet" is a poor word to describe the completion of an African-American.
Here is the dictionary definition of russet (have you ever looked it up?): "NOUN - 1. a reddish or yellowish brown; 2. coarse homespun cloth or clothing of this color; 3. russet leather; 4. a winter apple of greenish color. ADJ. - 1. of a reddish or yellowish brown color; 2. made of russet cloth; also, coarse, homespun." Finally, the word comes from the Old French word, "russus," which means red.
Is your character sunburn, and hence a reddish-brown? Or is she sick, perhaps with jaundice, and therefore is a yellowish-brown color? If she's neither, then don't use russet.
I also have to take issue with Survivor's advice about readers not caring how the scene is worded. That may be true, but it's not the issue. The issue is whether you want to be a craftsman or a dilettante. If you goal is to be a craftsman, then write each scene with as much elegance and grace as you can muster. If you want to be a hack....well, given that you're concerned with the words themselves, I don't think that's your goal.
quote:Main Entry: 1rus·set Pronunciation: 'r&-s&t Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old French rousset, from rousset, adjective, russet, from rous russet, from Latin russus red; akin to Latin ruber red -- more at RED Date: 13th century 1 : coarse homespun usually reddish brown cloth 2 : a strong brown 3 : any of various winter apples having russet rough skins 4 : IDAHO
I got the above from Merriam-Webster (www.m-w.com) I asked because I was unsure of the word. I’m not trying to make an issue of the whole thing, definition number 2 is what led me to think the word MAY be appropriate. I put the word “brown” into the MS Word thesaurus, but not being terribly accurate I went and looked it up. So, you can at least see my thought process. I have a decent vocabulary which I’m rather proud of, but it can always be expanded and that’s what, at least impart, I’m trying to accomplish.
I’m also well aware the of connotation. I am freakish about this. I want to paint a picture and there my be subtle nuances which differ from my vision and the readers, but I still strive for them to get a little more than the general idea.
Case in point, earlier in the novel I was writing about a minstrel who juggled. The first time I wrote the sentence I said something to the effect of, “The minstrel continued to play with his brightly colored balls.” Now, I highly doubt any one would misinterpret this as a masturbatory reference, but it bothered me because a double meaning could be found. There’s other ways to word things. I’ve notice other authors do similar things and I annoys me so I try to avoid it when I write. I mention this only to give an example of how important the connotation of my words is. I guess the word can be removed as it’s bearing on the overall is not crucial and I’m still partly unsatisfied with the scene as a whole, although I did find my niche.
quote: The issue is whether you want to be a craftsman or a dilettante. If you goal is to be a craftsman, then write each scene with as much elegance and grace as you can muster. If you want to be a hack....well, given that you're concerned with the words themselves, I don't think that's your goal.
Each sentence is a painstaking labor of undying love and devotion to the trade.
JOHN!!!!
[This message has been edited by JOHN (edited September 13, 2002).]
posted
John, the frustration with your work, the feeling that it is garbage and so on, is something that happens to writers quite often as they develop their skills.
You are developing critical skills right along with your writing skills, and every time your critical skills develop faster than your writing skills, you are probably going to experience this kind of disgust for what you write.
The only thing to do when that happens is to remember that it's part of the skill development, and keep writing until your writing skills catch up again, and you don't hate your work as much.
So keep at it.
And thanks for keeping a rein on how you express your frustrations. I know some of the things you say may be a bit rough for some, but I also know you are restraining yourself, and I want you to know that restraint is appreciated.
quote:And thanks for keeping a rein on how you express your frustrations. I know some of the things you say may be a bit rough for some, but I also know you are restraining yourself, and I want you to know that restraint is appreciated.
Thank you, anyone that knows me knows that restraint isn’t one of my strong suits. I really don’t want to offend people here and honestly if someone has a problem with anything I said let me know. I often fear people misunderstand me when I speak, which is where any insecurity of my writing comes from. They say swearing is the only way an unimaginative person can express themselves---well they haven’t heard me swear. It’s just they way I talk. If it’s too much and I need to tone it down more I will. I really don’t want people to misinterpret my posts or worst yet get kicked off. The board has been invaluable over the last nine months.
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!!!!!! “The moonlight danced and swirled in her soft, smooth, Frappachino complexion.” 
