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Author Topic: How do they do it?
GZ
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Lately, when I finish a book I couldn’t put down, I’ve been trying to sort of think about why I was so sucked into it. Was it a particular character, an element of the plot, or even just that I got lost in the writer’s opulent or unique use of language? I wanted to become more conscience of what made a story work from me, and be aware of it from a writing standpoint, not just a as a reader.

In doing so, I’ve found that some of these books I’ve been sent into a reading frenzy over contain many things I probably as a writer and critiquer would start stomping all over with a red pen if I read them with those mindsets. But obviously the books work as they are, and not just for me, but for many other readers as well. It seems then that there are two conflicting sets of instincts weighing in here. Or at the least, that some perceived errors aren’t really as problematic as they might seem on first glance.

Is there a place where the red-pen psycho critic and the engrossed fanatic reader meet happily? I would hate to think is some sort of editing zeal, I’d eradicate some subtle part of a story that made it work (or recommend someone else to do so).

[Edit: Reworded post to better focus in on the part that I was pondering the most]

[This message has been edited by GZ (edited July 27, 2002).]


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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My guess is that those books which truly engage the reader are books with great story telling, as opposed to great wordsmithing.

(My theory is that fiction writers have to worry about both aspects when they write a piece of fiction.)

General readers will be more likely to forgive wordsmithing sins if the story telling is excellent than they will the other way around.

So, if you want to help someone make a story more sellable, focus on how they can improve the story telling.

This is why OSC talks so much about being clear, making the reader care, and being believable--that's all part of the story telling. It's also why he talks so much about Milieu, Idea, Character and Event stories.


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SiliGurl
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Kathleen said, "General readers will be more likely to forgive wordsmithing sins if the story telling is excellent than they will the other way around."

A PERFECT example of this is the Harry Potter books. I read all of the books right after the 1st movie came out, long before I joined my writing crit groups, long before I really got involved in the process of crafting my own novel. I hung on every single word, was totally enraptured by every page. I was-- and am-- a Potter-fanatic.

Now though, I'm listening to the audiotapes (masterfully narrated, btw) and find myself cringing every other word. No one just says anything... They always say it angrily, snappishly, weakly, hesitantly, etc etc. That's just one example. The writer/editor in me is mentally scratching through hundreds of words in each novel, and sometimes I sit in amazement that a copyeditor or whatnot didn't come through and nix some of these overabundant adverbs and adjectives.

BUT the reader in me still remains absolutely enthralled, and I'd give just about anything I owned to NOT be a muggle and get to go to Hogwarts.

So, while wordsmithing is important, I will forgive you just about anything if you hook me from the get go with an engaging story and never let go.


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Kolona
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I can't help wondering how much better books like "Harry Potter" would be if the editors had helped the authors clean them up. Why can't we have good stories and good writing?

Yes, I like a good story, but when I pick up a book I know nothing about to browse its first few pages, if the writing stinks I put it back. I don't want to work hard to muddle through, and reading and cringing are not my idea of a good time.

Once, when researching a particular genre, I bought a book in a popular series and was appalled. If that author had had the sense to delete 90% of the times she used the word "lovely," the book would have been a full one-third slimmer. How did the editor miss that? But this was a popular series.

In books I do muddle through for various reasons, when the plot/subject gets to a slow/weak point, I skip pages. And then I won't read that author again. Only wordsmithing will keep my eyes glued to the page and returning to authors.

I'm not a perfect writer by a longshot, but I expect to read good writing. I fear the craft is drowning in the lowering of standards in publishing industry. And I say that even while knowing the almighty dollar has a lot to do with it.

[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited July 30, 2002).]


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Yes, the best thing is good writing in good stories.

The sad thing, though, is what GZ has noticed, where books with not so good writing get published and sell very well.

At my most cynical, I figure that some of those publishers out there aren't willing to pay editors to clean up the writing because they know the author's fans will buy the book whether it is cleaned up or not.

<SIGH!>


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GZ
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There a few writers out there that I’ve liked in the past, but when I pick up their new stuff, it’s just awful. The story’s sloppy (or basically the same as the last book) and the wordcrafting made me cringe (Now whether that was a heightened awareness of such things on my part, or a lack of effort on their part just in that new stuff, I don’t know. I didn’t go back and check an older work for comparison.)

I’m not so sure I’ll be picking up the next one. If I do, I won’t be hot off the presses.

If I’m not the only one, this isn’t going to help their sales very much. Seems the publisher would want to avoid that, and it would be in their best interest to edit.

And you’re right, those books I like despite the writing strangeness, they are the ones where the story aspect gets to me. A good story can overcome some level of bad writing. That just leaves me wondering how much more I would have liked it if the writing was polished to a high sheen. And how many more books I’m going to take a disliking to because they weren’t given the polish treatment. <argh!>


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srhowen
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Once a author has a following i think it is like Kathleen said, the publisher feels the book will sell anyway.

I read several series of books and I noticed one sliding downhill. Then the next was great. I was amazed.

I then read an interview that said this best selling author had hired her own freelance editor to clean it up as her publisher no longer felt she needed editing services.

That says a lot.

Shawn


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