posted
a project (one i've put on the back burner for a while) of mine starts out on an alien world inhabited by beings who don't experience emotions the same way we do. a fair chunk of the beginning is the POV of characters of this species. i do this so the reader becomes familiar with the way they think and why they think the way they do (it should help the reader be more empathic with them later on, in theory...). i think i can pull off their force of personality well enough, but i'm afraid the reader may become bored with the apparent lack of internal emotional drama.
so the question is (questions are), with a species so radically different (and few foils to offset their force of personality), would you still be interested in following the storyline? the storyline itself is pretty engaging* (the species' world is going to be destroyed, among other things), but will curiousity about their behavior (especially because of the unique opportunity to be inside their heads) be enough to counter their lack of emotional response? how do you respond, as a reader, when confronted with the POV of someone wildly unlike anybody you can imagine? does it destroy your suspension of disbelief?
posted
Try writing a few passages and see what it looks like. I can't say whether or not your ideas of "emotionless" and "forceful personalities" are interesting to read unless you write them.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Please don't take this as discouragement, but I find that in every sci-fi story I have read with aliens in it, the aliens either think and act much like we do, or the humans involved with them are the POV characters. This is because as human beings, people have a hard time connecting with radically different psychologies and points of view. You may end up finding this necessary in your own story; or a possible compramise might be to introduce the alien race from a human's viewpoint and then shift into the alien viewpoint (or start jumping back and forth) once your readers are comfortable enough to accept it. This would serve as sort of a "warning: this is what these aliens are going to be like" before you actually dump them into the aliens' minds. I would strongly suggest writing fragments and showing them to a variety of people to get their opinions on it.
Shasta
[This message has been edited by DragynGide (edited August 19, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by DragynGide (edited August 19, 2002).]
posted
Not only are truly alien aliens hard to write about, but it's harder to write about society as it is now whilst using them. A lot of science fiction carries comments about the world today and human nature, so 'humans in alien suits' are the best way to do it. That way, if the author cuts too close to the bone, he or she can hold up their hands, laugh, and say 'hey, it's just aliens!' JK
Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
You can have unemotional characters be very interesting and engaging. Spock leapt immediately to mind. Their behavior won't be interesting, but situation should be. Just because the character isn't reacting to the situation doesn't mean the readers won't. Look at any good space battle scenes. No one on the bridge is reacting emotionally, but the tension of the situation engages the reader. You can also have the aliens notice and comment on the human characters reactions and thus inject emotional responses into the story.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
actually, there are no humans (as characters) in the story. i'm still contemplating whether to mention earth at all. as for "humans in alien suits", what i'm ultimately hoping for is an alien system that, together, represents a sort of human brain. the species i'm introing with is a little more extreme than most of the others, but i think it is important to start with them, or they may come out looking like "bad guys." plus, their actions greatly impact the flow of the plot after.
posted
Wait, why no humans? Then you have no "referance point" for the non-human behavior. Doesn't that undermine what you're trying to do?
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
well, it shouldn't. it really hasn't been a problem so far. see, (not trying to give away too much here) there are planets of people who have formed this sort of loose--waning, more like--common government. primarily used to keep the peace, protect trade, that sort of thing. when a new species is discovered, it goes under the protection of this government. no species can mess with it until it is deemed ready to enter the common society. if Earth is mentioned at all, it will likely be a planet under protection. i've played around with side-plots that involve crashing there (primarily dealing with the punishment of doing so), but it's all rather unnecessary.
besides, if humans are involved i run the risk of readers identifying more with them. i don't anyone going in with preferences, for or against.
posted
What do you mean that they "don't experience emotions the same way" as we do? Because of course all of us experience emotions different ways. A psychopath will experience emotions radically differently than a happy nine year old, but its possible to understand them both. So I'm assuming what you mean is it possible to engage a reader when the emotions are un-understandable (and nevermind *how* they are un-understandable). But I think you have a problem before you get to that stage.
You're worried that your readers, as humans, won't understand your characters. I'm worried that you, as a human, can't make your characters. If you're able to make a scenario and have these creatures acting in a specific way to them, then you understand them at least somewhat, and if you work hard enough and creatively enough you'll be able to pass that understanding on to the reader.
Some one before mentioned Spock. Spock always seemed very human to me. A repressed human, sure, and one far more devoted to logic than most humans, but fundamentally quite comprehensible. After all, all he did was take one human characteristic and concentrate on that. You wouldn't call an overemotional person inhuman. Maybe melodramatic and annoying as all get out, but not inhuman.
I guess I'd start of with, what are universals? I assume this alien is a concious being, with concepts of existence of self and existence of other. If it clings to unity with its fellow creatures, and not because it "feels lonely" without them, or because it "gets afraid" without them, but just because thats in its nature, you can portray that and I, as a fellow sentient being inhabiting the universe will care because I need unity, even if I express it emotionally in a different way.
Sorry if this sounds pedantic to you, but it's 3:30 in the morning and I haven't the strength of will to go back and make it sound less like I think I am the Goddess of All Things Alien. It's just what I think.
posted
The thing about Vulcans is that they weren't apathetic, they had emotions so powerful that a strict regimen of mental control was necessary to prevent atavistic behavior (their emotions were somehow connected with their telepathic abilities, which were in turn somehow connected to the psionic weapons that ended the last major civil war of the proto-Vulcan race--the race that gave rise to the Vulcans, Romulans, and several dozen more technologically primative races).
So I don't think that good ole Mister Spock is the best example of an "apathetic alien", just for the purposes of this discussion. Unless he is more or less what Cosmi was thinking about.
As for not having humans to contrast with your aliens, you run the risk of your audience just thinking that you don't put a lot of emotion into your POV (unless you do something dweeby like have your aliens be self-consciously emotionless--which only works with "tinman" stories). If you have both human and non-human POV characters, then there is a definite contrast, and it actually becomes plausible for the human characters to notice how unemotional the aliens are and vice versa.
I have faith that you can successfully write your aliens-without-human-emotions. Readers can become interested in characters without understanding their emotional state. Typical action heroes and detectives don't give much of an emotional experience to readers. If they are feeling emotions they hardly show it.
What your alien characters do need are very clear goals. The destruction of their own world is not a logical goal, but saving it or escaping the destruction would be a great goal. You need to portray your alien characters struggling to achieve these major goals, as well as some personal, minor goals along the way. For example, a major goal for the book: "the species must escape the doomed planet." A personal goal for chapter 1: "a heroic scientist must complete a difficult research project to determine how much time they've got."
When the aliens experience failures and hardships they do not need feel frustration, despair, or anger. They could feel something totally different, or maybe nothing at all. If your concept is creative enough your readers will be fascinated by it.
But if your aliens don't have any goals then your readers won't even make it to the feeling or non-feeling part. They will throw your book in the trashcan after 3-4 pages.
Dirty Harry never showed much emotion, but he always had goals.
posted
Humans empathize with un-understandable characters by projecting their own emotional abilities and reactions onto them. At least, I do. I've empathized with rocks (stupid kids, always knocking them around!) and such...
Posts: 4 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Shauna3231~ maybe i was over-simplifying. they experience emotions differently than the average chemically stable population of humans? these characters are understandable. like i said before, one of the key reasons i start in their POV is so the reader will understand their actions better later on. and like i said before, i can create them. i understand them. that said, (back to my original questions) you would, i take it, be able to empathize with POV characters very unlike huma...what i described above?
i didn't even think of the Vulcans when i thought my beings up. i don't really know much about them (not a trekky, have seen the two newest movies, though, and a few episodes of _Voyager_...). from Survivor's description, they aren't what i'm going for.
Survivor~ (back to my original questions) so you don't think you would enjoy a piece, then, with a truly alien POV without a human (or human-like alien) foil?
posted
I think that if you did it, and and you did it well, I would find it more interesting and would be more able to relate than if it was with a regular humanoid alien.
I would, however, be absolutely fascinated by a story told from the point of view of something incomprehensible to me. I think that lots of things are incomprehensible to imagine but you can make sense of them when they are out there. (Did that make any sense?)
posted
I think this is one of those questions that is tough. i could say, well, look at Brian Jacques(Redwall) and Richard Adams(Watership Down) There were no human characters, yet the animals were humans in an allegorical kind of way. I think the same could be said of aliens. You could have an all alien cast, but i think, no matter how hard you tried, that you would cast the aliens as some kind of human, emotionally. I disagree that the average human is emotionally stable(can't remember who mentioned that) I think that humans are inherently unstable because of their emotions. it is the lack of emotion that we, as humans, find to be abnormal. The dictator who makes decisions dispassionately, etc. So, the long and the short of it is, i think you can easily write a story without a human "foil" or reference point. Our reference point is that we are human, and we can't help seeing things from that perspective. So, use your reader as your human. Go for it. Liz
Posts: 16 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Our reference point as humans will mean that most readers will miss any emotions outside that frame of reference. They will not understand lack of emotions or strange emotions outside that boundary. Negative emotions or the lack of emotions can still be tied into that human frame of reference so the reader can relate to it. Going beyond that may lose your reader unless there is a good back story so they are comfortable. It sounds like you are planning on doing that. It is a very demanding concept.
posted
Hmm, after puzzling over your problem, I've thought this up. In sci fi or fantasy there are two sources (in general!) that readers look for. Some sort of unknown (aliens, distant futures, elves, unicorns, cyborgs) to be curious about, and a familiar element (humanlike emotions, challenges, problems etc). So here's the thing--if you want to absent the human element, make the unknown element extremely compelling, so compelling that the readers read on without the human connection. At least scifi readers are used to the unfamiliar.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Putting your non-emotional aliens in a situation that could rouse them from their apathy might be an interesting approach, so long as you make it clear to the reader that the aliens are acting out of character. Two factions of aliens?
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Chad~ well, i don't know about "rousing them from their apathy." i guess that could be interesting, but the story i have in mind (but i guess that's not set in stone ) would work better without such a turn. besides, i think that would be cheating the reader: my aliens are the way they are because of what neurotransmitters they are capable of producing. you couldn't get a slug to cry over the loss of another, they physically can't do it. (and good thing too, that could get messy.) it's just part of what they are. if you read such a work, would that frustrate you? would it make the work less enjoyable (especially since these guys are POV characters)?
posted
Actually the possiblity of looking at emotionless aliens is fascinating. I was struck by your reference to different neurotransmitters as the primary cause of their emotion-free nature. Could you be more specific concerning the differences you are considering? Are their different neurotransmitters altogether, lack of specific ones, or what?
I am very interested in learning more about this idea.
Ben
[This message has been edited by squid-head (edited August 25, 2002).]
posted
Cosmi, What about having, for lack of a better word, a social outcast. A being in the community that no one understands, because they have some level of emotion that could be used as a reactionary back story. Similar to looking into the ancient cultures that saw the homosexual as Gifted, Cursed or sacred? Something that does not even need to be predominant. Just a passing reference early on to establish the difference. Just a thought. Corinna
Posts: 17 | Registered: Jul 2002
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our emotions (in a strictly non-religious sense) are a key survival mechanism. imagine a society in which humans were not "chemically-balanced" the way they are. for example, maybe the brain sends cues for paranoia in groups or maybe the site of dead things evokes no response at all. true these reactions can be attributed to environmental influence, and thus conditioned, but imagine if they were the body's natural response. in the former case, humans as we know them, a largely socially-dependent species, could not exist. in the latter, the implications would be more toward the personal health end of the spectrum. if you happened upon a dead human body in the middle of a street somewhere, you would become more alert to your surroundings, no?
but that's humans. many animals become unnerved around other members of their species. not because they think "hey, that guy's competition!" it's a chemical response. watch how their behavior changes when they're in heat.
what i'm working on is a social species that is self-sufficient without most of the human (and other animals too) responses. they physically lack the neurotransmitters that serve to bring about them.
everyone~
thank you very much for the feedback. you've all been a lot of help!
posted
Let me make sure I understand you correctly.
These aliens do not have the typical anxiety provoking or pro-social emotions typical of human beings (and perhaps other animals). They lack the neurochemical makeup to produce such responses.
When I originally read your reference, I believed you were thinking that they lacked specific neurotransmitters linked with certain emotions, like serotonin or dopamine. I was concerned because while sertonin is implicated in depression/euthymia, it is also involved in the "flight or fight" response as well as sleep (it is a precursor to melotonin). It would be important to consider all that we do know about the roles of these chemicals when removing them from the aliens.
I would also caution you against reducing human emotional responses to brain chemistry. There are many other componants, especially cognitive, that factor in to how human beings feel emotions. But that's another discussion
If these aliens evolved in a different manner that did not require the same types of reponses found in human beings, then what are they replaced with? How does the lack of these responses contribute to the survival of the individual and/or species as a whole?
I think you have a great idea that would be very interesting to develop. I'm working on my PhD in clinical psychology, so might be able to help you out with some of your idea's implications. Realizing the full implications of apathetic aliens would add considerable depth to the world you are forming.
Keep it up! Can't wait to hear about the end result.
Ben
[This message has been edited by squid-head (edited August 28, 2002).]
well, social anxiety was just an example, but i think you got it.
i've already worked out much concerning their society (how it function, how their evolutionary precursers would have functioned...). for various reasons, i haven't done anything with it for a while. when i picked it back up (just recently) i made lists of all the types of research i have to do and tops on the list is to find out more about the different neurotransmitters that effect animal behavior (including our own).
what i want to end up with is a brain unlike any on earth. so back to the example. if i wanted to remove serotonin, what i'd be looking for is why it was needed before melotonin. or maybe just research deeper into the behavior of the pons and basal forebrain.
obviously this is going to take a lot of research. the purpose of this post was to help gauge if it was even worth attempting. i think it is. i would greatly appreciate any help you could provide. as to the actual brain chemistry end, i think i should do more basic research first.
TTFN & lol
Cosmi
[This message has been edited by Cosmi (edited August 28, 2002).]
posted
I just reiterate my point that if you have no human (or similarly emotional) characters, then there is no contrast for the POV of your alien characters, so it doesn't necessarily come across that your characters are sooo different from humans, only that you don't include certain elements in your POV portrayal.
For instance, some writers make a point of examining the sexual desires of their POV characters fairly intensively. On the other hand, other writers might not focus so much on sexuality, but rather on, say...work. They aren't writing about an entirely different kind of human, one that prefers work to sex. They are just making different choices as writers.
If you don't ever have character's dwell on the horribleness of dead bodies, then perhaps your readers will think that you just don't write that way (I don't usually write my characters that way, for instance--if my POV character sees a dead body, he's much more likely to think "I wonder how that happened?" than he is to think "Oh, how horrid!" That's just the way I prefer to write). Only if you have characters that you do show responding emotionally will your readers understand that you are deliberately portraying your alien characters as not being very emotional.
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) would work better without such a turn. besides, i think that would be cheating the reader: my aliens are the way they are because of what neurotransmitters they are capable of producing. you couldn't get a slug to cry over the loss of another, they physically can't do it. (and good thing too, that could get messy.) it's just part of what they are. if you read such a work, would that frustrate you? would it make the work less enjoyable (especially since these guys are POV characters)?
