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Author Topic: Writing Woes or Ollie Whines Again!
Rahl22
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Ok, so I'm gonna whine a little.

I read the foreward to King's "Everything's Eventual" today, and he talked (again) about how he got started. He mentioned his first short story sale being in 1968. He then went on to say how the short story market was dwindling back then, and how now, 35 years later, it was virtually non-existant.

So here I am. Everyone has told me that I should write short stories, to get some publishing credentials, before I write novels. But the markets are really not there. But publishing a novel with no history seems just as daunting as obtaining a history.

So now I feel stuck.

Should I just settle for smaller publications, webzines, and the like for publishing credentials? Or would these not even help my 'writing portfolio'?


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Balthasar
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If you're into sci-fi and fantasy, I don't think that is a big requirement. As far as I know, neither Robert Jordan nor Terry Goodkind nor Tad Williams started out publishing short stories.

Check out DAW's web-page. They will publish novels submitted by frist-time writers.

One more thing: you can see the nonexistent short short market as either a hill to be conqurered or a battle already lost. There is a market -- you just have to be good enough to get in. So be good enough.

[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited August 29, 2002).]


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Rahl22
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Wise words, but my problem is that I don't really like to write short stories. I mean, I think they're fine and entertaining - but I like the complicated and developed motions of a novel. I suppose I could just jump in and hope that my novel is alright. Even if it's not, it's one way to practice the craft. But if my novel will be better received by spending a little time getting published in the short story market - then I'd rather do that.

Therein lies the dilema.


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tamalynn
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Why not develop a small part of your novel that would stand well alone, and try to get that published as a short story? To kill two birds with one stone, so to speak?
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Kolona
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We're all in the same boat. I'm sure you can find authors who've sold novels using each method you mention and a bunch you haven't. I've read conflicting advice from published authors. My conclusion? It's a crap shoot.

Gather the info and go with your gut feeling. Pay your money and take your chance.

One peripheral you might consider is attending writer's conferences. Hobnob a little with the agents and publishers and other writers. A little name and face recognition and one-on-one time can't hurt.


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huntr
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From all the info I have read in these forums, It seems that building your credentials in ANY way will certainly help you get an agent. That may be a goal worth pursuing in itself. That is at least one step forward to publishing a novel. I feel that most small steps forward do add up over time.

Chuck


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Balthasar
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quote:
Wise words, but my problem is that I don't really like to write short stories. I mean, I think they're fine and entertaining - but I like the complicated and developed motions of a novel.

Then write novels.

At one point in time, I owned close to twenty books on writing. I owned a few writing computer programs to help me organize my material. I produced six novels, none of which made it past the 100-word mark.

Eventually, I threw out every book and every computer program and took a nine-month hiatus from writing. I'm just now returning to it.

You can take this advise or leave it, but the one thing I learned--and I learned it from Stephen King, whose book On Writing is the only worthwhile book on the subject--is that there is one proverb a writer lives by: read a lot, write a lot. That's it. That's the only way to learn the craft; that's the only way to become proficient in the craft.

[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited August 30, 2002).]


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srhowen
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I like the crap shoot theory. LOL I have a friend who has some major publishing credits as far as short stories go, she sells them regularly.

We both write novels.

I have a history as far as non-fiction, and ghost writing, and in editing. I have not sold a fiction short story other than to on-line publications.

Both, my friend and I, are at what I call the almost stage. We have sent queries, by the dozen, and had a fair number of requests for further material. I think we both write at about the same level as well.

So technically her history should mean more than mine. Where am I going with this? Sheesh---I think you need experience, but it does not have to be just in publishing in the genre that your novel fits into.

Agents and publishers want to know that you are professional (follow submission guides to the letter, and take the time to write a stellar query), that you have the ability to take seriously what they suggest about your work (none of them wants to work with someone who is going to either ignore their suggestions or argue with them), behaving in a professional manner and having taken the time to have a professional piece of work is going to go a long way towards getting your foot in the door.

Is the short story market dead? I liked King’s ON WRITING, very much, but I do not agree on this point. There are many publications out there looking everyday for quality subs. I tend to think King was referring to the horror genre.

Shawn


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chad_parish
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I think the important thing to take away from this discussion is, "Don't quit your day job."

I sure as HELL have kept mine.


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Rahl22
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All good advice, really, but here I am back at square one. Trust my instincts. Well, I'll see where they lead me.

Srhowen,

It wasn't in On Writing that he mentioned this, but in Everything's Eventual. He didn't quite say dead, just diminishing. Actually, the whole introduction to the book was him pleading for us to go out and buy more short fiction anthologies lest it truly die out.


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Wen Spencer
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My first sale was my novel ALIEN TASTE. THe publisher liked it so much that they asked for a sequel, TAINTED TRAIL.

No, don't worry about having publishing credits. Worry instead about being a good writer. What short stories are good for is to learn how to write while keeping things down at a small, easy to manage to scale. I cut my baby teeth on fanfic before trying to tackle novels. You can leap right to novels, but I recommend to work on a stand-alone novel and not try for a triology.

Quite simply, to sell a novel you have to write a good novel, and that's it. There are plenty of successful short story writers out there that can write award winning short stories but can't figure out how to write a novel that sells.

I like to remind writers that Tiger Woods didn't pick up a golf club at age 21 and start winning Masters. He was swinging that club at age two. As writers, we need to write and write and write before we hit that 'good writer' stage. Too many people let the failure of not selling the first handful of stories be the end of their career when it should be just the start of their learning process.

Wen


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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I would like to say here that Wen Spencer knows whereof she speaks when she talks about writing a good novel.

I've read ALIEN TASTE and loved it. It's been a long time since I've been able to say that a book was so good that I couldn't put it down. I hated to put this one down, and was anxious to get back to it.

It may not strike everyone that way, but it is definitely worth getting and reading. Great ideas, strong and interesting characters, well-written. What more could you ask for?


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Rahl22
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So I had a dream last night. Wanna know how pathetic I am?

Did I dream of novel deals? No. Did I dream of syndication? No. What did I dream of?

Rejection, but a personalized one.

How pathetic am I that all I dream about is a personalized rejection? And yet, in the morning when I woke up, I was so disappointed when I realized that I wasn't actually rejected. I so wanted that personalized rejection!

Oh brother! hehe

Rahl


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DragynGide
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My pennies worth...

If you want to write novels, write novels. If you don't like writing short stories, then no short story you force yourself to write will be worthwhile.

Do what you enjoy, and it'll pay off in the long run.

Shasta


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supraturtle
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I've tried to adapt from novel-length works to shorts, and I was never comfortable with the results. Also, if you're trying for the pulps, get a subscription a few months before you submit... most 'zines even 'suggest' that in their guidelines.
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