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Taleswapper2003
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Yeah, i'm finally old enough to come in here. Coolness. NEways, writer's block sucks...anybody have advice for others to overcome it?


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Christine
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That depends on whether you mean real writer's block or what everyone calls writer's block which is lack of inspiration (coming up with the idea in the first place.)

For writer's block, which means you are working on an idea but can't finish it...it probably means you haven't done enough planning. Go back and do more inventing of the world, the character, the relationships, etc.

For lack of inspiration, OSC has some recommendations in his book, Characters and Viewpoint where he goes over his thousand ideas an hour method. You basically start with anything and keep asking why and how until you get to something good. Never go with the first answer, because that's likely to be cliche. It's tough to explain in a paragraph, you really ought to read the book, it's terrific.

Actually, someone should start a thousand ideas thread for the fun of it. It would also help show people who don't know the method.


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taerin
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I *always* get ideas from random generators.

For example, check out the Lost Civilization Generator or create your own race of people! Generate about ten of each and see what grabs you.

There are generated descriptions of people or maguffins that can jump right up and tell you some of their history. Even the Quick Story Idea Generator can give you a few bones. Each one provides a theme, one or more main characters, and one-word description of how the story begins and ends or the story's main event.

I got started doing this when I found Julia West's Randomly generated science fiction story ideas page. I just clicked each button to get a result, then tried to link them all together in one story summary. An example of one of mine:

Generated elements:
character - farmer, job - starship crew, emotion - enthusiastic, item - weapon, descriptor - elderly, place - cathedral, event - discovery

Summary:
An elderly farmer and his son, clearing new ground for crops, unearth an ancient machine. A merchant in the Cathedral of Trade enthusiastically buys their discovery, certain he'll make a fortune selling it to the next mercenary starship crew who comes through. But before he can, strange things start happening...

No, it's not the greatest, but that's the raw beginning of the story those elements told me when I read them. I liked this so much that I made a set of randomly generated fantasy story ideas for my use, based on her code.

You can also look at the Instant Muse Story Starter for random generation of your main character's gender, job, an Archetype, a Key Object or Symbol, the Setting and theme. Again, the first one(s) you grab may not do anything for you, but try six or seven, and something might come to you.

Hope this helps!

[This message has been edited by taerin (edited July 30, 2003).]


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srhowen
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I don't remember who said it but, in one of the how to make money at writing books I read long ago--

The only writers who buy into writers block are those who have another source of income.

If you sit down and pretend that if you don't write you don't eat or have to live in a box on the street---you would be surprised at how fast the flow will come.

Or reward yourself for every so many words--a game or some small thing.

Shawn


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cvgurau
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Interesting practice. And kind of fun, too. (the instant generators, I mean)

I myself am constantly plagued by various fiendish forms of writers block, and I usually don't get over it until lady muse gets off her ass and smacks me upside the head with a particularly good idea. I know, it's not a good way to write, but I'm not going for wealth and riches, here, just a once-in-a-while hobby.

Chris

PS--this reminds me of a story I read somewhere, in a how-to writing book whose title I can't remember: Once upon a time there was a builder named Bill, who was very good at his job. He read blueprints and turned out magnificent works of architecture. One day, Bill got builder's block. He could no longer read blueprints, he'd all but forgotten every trick he'd ever known, and his latest buildings were shoddy at best. The money, once plentiful, soon dwindled to near nothingness. Bill spent his time on the couch now, watching Springer and eating Cheezy Poofs. (Okay, so that last part wasn't in the original, but I couldn't resist ) After a while, his wife, who'd been very concerned about her husband, asked him what was wrong. So Bill told her he had builder's block. His wife paused, blinked twice, and said "That's why we have no money? That's why your building suffers? I that's why I have to shop at K-Mart?!" Bill nodded. "Yup." So Bill's wife hit him upside the head with a fairly large brick, and Bill never had builders block again.

...

I forget the point of the story, but it's pretty damn funny, I think.

[This message has been edited by cvgurau (edited July 30, 2003).]


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Maccabeus
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You know, for some reason that lost civilization generator seems to be hung up on culinary knowledge; it's very commonly all that's left behind. Rather odd...
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Lord Darkstorm
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In one of the writing books I have read it had a piece on writers block. I was a bit surprised when it said that when the inspiration runs out thats when skill has to take over.

Not sure if it is true, but it sounded good.


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srhowen
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I'll agree with that one. I once thought that all writing came from some mystical place--the muse--writers block meant hey you could not write because the muse wasn't speaking.

I have learned that you have to train yourself to write--make it happen like anything else.

It is a skill enhanced by a story tellers gift.

Shawn


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Christine
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quote:
The only writers who buy into writers block are those who have another source of income.

In general, that's true. I bought five books on how to write recently, and I'm not buying a single new one. In general, they're crap, full of vague generalities and sometimes even things I feel are downright wrong.

But I still recommend OSC's 2 books, "How to Write Science FIction and Fantasy" and "Characters and Viewpoint" The only 2 worthwhile books I've found out there, but they really help.

Yeah, professional writers don't need writing books, thye've sold books and obviously know how to write already. Most of us have to have another source of income because we're not there yet and I, for one, could use some help sometimes. Now, I've finally gotten all I can out of writing books, and it's down to practice, practice, rpactice, but still....


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Lord Darkstorm
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Description by Monica Wood is very good. Not quite as good as OSC, but somewhat close. Explained quite allot actually.

Now if I could only find a good book on grammer.


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srhowen
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One thing I noticed is that once I got to where I am--the writers how to's did not seem to do me much good. I got my next issue of Writers Digest and the lead article was how to land an agent. I didn't read any of the issue. It just didn't seem to fit anymore. Most books are geared, it seems to those wanting the next step--agent, editor, publisher ect.

each writer has their own way of "doing it"--I found one book and one article almost at the same time that was "it" for me--they clicked.

To me the statement about writers block means that you should not use it as an excuse--hand on forehead, lean back and deep sigh--"oh, I just can't write!"

Like an good or bad habit—you have to train yourself—when you sit down to write at 5 am you will write. Do that for the required 6 weeks to form a habit—your brain will say OK time to write and the muse will come. I hear you going yeah right (that should be write)

It does work. It took me a while to stick to it but once I did—now when I turn on the computer bring up Word Perfect---turn on the music—brain says ok create time. I still have stall periods where I want to cop out and practice writer’s avoidance. I refuse and sit and edit old stories.

But I have made it a habit.

Shawn


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Maccabeus
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Now I'm embarrassed...I've been complaining of having writers' block for the past three years. (Actually it's been the lack of ideas thing.)

To be sure, I have an excuse of sorts; three years ago I was struck down and knocked out of college by a nasty eye infection and have been struggling just to pay the bills ever since. It's depressing--it left me not wanting to write half the time and wanting to write but too exhausted to think the rest.

Still, you people have me thinking I should've done something differently. I just wish I knew what.


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Lord Darkstorm
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You know, I have done of some of my best poetry when depressed. Who knows, maybe you could work on something dark and depressing...

Ok, might not be a great idea, but you already have some first hand experience.


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srhowen
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Good book on grammar--Grammar for Dummies--really.

Shawn


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Maccabeus
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Actually, I've begun a novel that is not all that dark. The block has ended (and as it happens, OSC is responsible, in a way).

I have done some pretty dark poetry in the past when I was depressed. Poetry isn't usually my thing, though, and this period was worse than that brief mood.


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Christine
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I've gone through serious bouts of depression in the past, too. When I was a kid that's when I started ever writing in the first place. So I guess it's not all bad and you should use it.

But in general, if anyone here is really depressed, I'd say fix the drpression. As an adult, a relapse did not work fo rme the same way that the first bout had. I just didn't feel like doing anything and didn't care anymore. You know what, having had that experience will help you in the future to write characters going through a hard time, but for the moment you need help. Depression is nothing to play with. It's a sickness.

All that being said, this particular sickness is definitely no reason not to write. In fact, writing could help you out of your slump. So chime in on our 1000 words thread, get some ideas (preferrably some happy ones, writing dark stuff when you're in a dark mood just makes everything dark) and get back to writing!

By the way, here's an interesting factoid I learned from a Psychology class. They've shown in studies that smiling improves your mood . That is to say, if you're in a good mood you smile, but also, if you smile you might just improve your mood. They simulated smiles by having people bite down on a pencil. I thought it was clever. So bite pencils if you're depressed, was my conclusion!

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited July 31, 2003).]


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cvgurau
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Is that what depression is? I always thought it was feeling really, really sad, but if it's where you don't feel anything about anything, then yeah, I get that once in a while, too. I guess you can call it a dark mood not because it's bad, but because it's nothing but emptiness. Like outer space. Not necessarily bad, but not good, either.

Chris

PS--Anyone else ever notice that if you highlight the smiley face, it turns into a sad face?

Weird.


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Taleswapper2003
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Good ideas. I like the name generator one. I don't really have writer's block. I just wanted a reference started so someone can look to for ideas. The reason my writing is stopped is because i'm too lazy to research how they made Bows and arrows in the middle ages cuz my character needs to make one and i don't know where to begin.

But yes, get OSC's character and viewpoint. Tis a great help. Reformed my whole approach to writing stories a few years back, it did. There was another book...explained that writer's block is like a basketball player who is in a slump and can't sink a shot. He just has to keep shooting until it goes in. Same with writing. Write about anything. I once had writer's block and was told to find somthing mundane and take that one object and write a story about it. The story sucked but right after i started a story which at the time was my best work. After that i wrote a story which led to 2 more sequals, a rewrite of all three parts. The start of a novel....which i'm stuck on still...and a dozen other short stories.

And Darkstorm, my best poems are really depressing. A friend told me i should subtitle one, "I need a date"


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Maccabeus
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Actually, I don't know whether it was _depression_ in the medical sense. I felt bad because I was working myself to exhaustion just to pay the bills and I didn't know if I was ever going to get my life back.

An acquaintance from church and relative of a former employer is paying off my college bills and I will be back in classes this semester. I feel a lot better.


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Lord Darkstorm
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And Darkstorm, my best poems are really depressing. A friend told me i should subtitle one, "I need a date"

Well, my poetry was dark, depressing, and I linked them off each other. While one would be a start, the next would indirectly reference the prior one.

Yes, I was a bit messed up then, but I'm all better now.

If I keep telling them that they are bound to believe it eventually, he thought.

[This message has been edited by Lord Darkstorm (edited July 31, 2003).]


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GZ
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quote:
I bought five books on how to write recently, and I'm not buying a single new one. In general, they're crap, full of vague generalities and sometimes even things I feel are downright wrong.

I’m afraid I’ve indulged in over five, but my opinion isn’t too far different of most of them. Self-Editing for Fiction Writer’s, which I was looking at last week, actually had examples that appeared to me to be counter productive to what they were trying to illustrate. Others are much too general, or in the other extreme, are so specific they imply rules that aren’t going to work for everyone. And after a while, practice is the only real teacher that makes much difference.

I’ve also found some of the books depressing. I don’t want to hear that if I don’t "write 2000 words a day" or "haven’t written since birth" I’m going to fail as a writer. I don’t happen to agree. You just need to read and write regularly. Maybe I just have a different criteria for failure. But read that sort of thing on a down day and it can put you a funk. Aside from the not really learning anything new factor, I stopped reading writing books because of this. Being in a funk is counterproductive to writing.

There are some really good ones though, and those I’m glad I read and I’m lucky I read them early on before running into some of the other junk out there. They teach you skills, or remind you of things you probably already know from reading, but give you room to find your own way.

Good Stuff:
Character and Viewpoint – Orson Scott Card
How to Write Fantasy and Science Fiction – Orson Scott Card
Beginning, Middles, and Ends – Nancy Kress (her Dynamic Character’s isn’t too bad either)
Creating Short Fiction – Damon Knight (I really just love this one for his concept of Fred. It’s priceless both because of the humor value, and because I find it to be true. The rest of the book’s pretty good too.)


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Lord Darkstorm
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Details by Monica Wood should be added to that list.
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Taleswapper2003
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So should the entire Elements of Fiction Writing collection...i.e. Plot and "Conflict, Action, and Suspense"

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Christine
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Not all the Elements of Fiction. Plot needs to be burned. Every copy needs to be wiped from existence! Also, from what I understand, Dialogue is pretty awful too. I wasn't very fond of Conflict, Action and Suspense, although it was OK. That was just written by one of those people who thinks if you can use flowery language you're not a writer.
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Lord Darkstorm
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Well, for someone who is currently reading "Plot" I have to say it isn't worthless, but does need to be read as more of options than rules. I have found some interesting concepts in it.

I have been reading quite a few of them more for thier possible concepts than taking everything in them as a must. Some of them also help teach about certain concepts that most writers will realize should be avoided. But as for burning them all...no, I just wish people would use them for what they are, possibilities.

I will admint that 'plot' has not been as good as Details, or C&V, but it has had some usefull info.


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DiaCornier
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for the old "writer's block" - (or, what I get --- I know what I want to happen, who it should happen to, but spend hours rewriting the first few paragraphs because I just decide the best way to start) - my favorite cure is to say, "I won't work on this for X number of days (or hours, weeks, whatever)." And then I go pick up a book and I read. One of two things will happen - I'll finish the book and then go back and start writing again - or, ten minutes later I jump up and run back to the computer with a *brilliant* <scoff> idea.

- Sometimes we just put too much pressure on ourselves to produce - because "those who don't produce, don't publish." ...catch 22. Don't let one wipe out the other.

....oh, I didn't really like PLOT either. A book that I would suggest:

1,001 ways to Promote Your Book (books?) something like that (the shelf is too far away for me to see, right now).

An Elegant Madness (non-fiction about Victorian & Regency era England - fabulous, engrossing)

A book of names (one that divides them up by nationalities works) - this is wonderful for those like me, who can never think of names besides John, Sally and Mark.

an Uncle Shelby's A, B, Z book (to relax you)
by Shel Silverstein

Anyone else have a "must have" book list?


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GZ
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Dialog from Elements of Fiction is horrible. It might possibly be the worst writing How-To book I have encountered. The author wrote it all in dialog, and while that might sound like great idea, trust me, it's not. Least not how this guy did it.

I found Plot useless. I've never gotten through Conflict, Action, and Suspense -- it seemed pointless too.


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Maccabeus
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*sigh* I seem to have gotten past my new problem and run smack into an older one.

I was maybe a couple of pages into the story when I realized it wasn't working right--I'm going to have to start over and rewrite the whole thing. Now I'm feeling inadequate again and I just realized I've been avoiding writing for nearly two weeks because of it.

At least that doesn't mean I've done _nothing_...my research is progressing nicely...but at this rate I'll never finish the tale.


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Lord Darkstorm
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Don't give up. Think of it in terms that you now know what not to do. Often times knowing what you don't want helps you get what you do want.

I spent a year and a half learning things not to do when contracted to a company to help write a program that was already huge and ammasing size more and more every day.

So it showed me that even bad situations can be helpfull. It all comes down to your point of view.


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