Is it too Tolkien-esque to put elves and dwarves and centaurs and stuff in a story? I mean, he did it so well, it's hard to imagine doing it better, or as good, even.
Chris
PS--I know he never wrote about centaurs, but still...
posted
I say if the story's driving you crazy, write it. you're not going to write Tolkien's stories, you're going to write yours. There were elves and dwarves before Tolkien, he just took them out of fairy tales, and put them in an epic.
I have a story on the back burner now about a pregnant centaur and a telepath, and if I read a book tomorrow that's about a centaur and a telepath, that's not gonna stop me from writing MY story, as soon as I find a plot for it.
posted
Just try to put your own spin on the races etc. and you should be fine. Tolkien's races and culture and all that is so ingrained in the fantasy writing world that it almost doesnt matter if you borrow many of the ideas.
posted
Personally, every time I read about another Dwarf with an axe and a beard, I have to make a quick trip to the vomitorium. If he's also gruff, but has a heart of gold and a soft spot for children, I have to go twice.
But, that's just a pet peeve of mine. I don't think that should stop you from writing the story. After all, R. A. Salvatore and Tracy Hickman seem to sell a lot of books. So, the readers are out there.
posted
Not to mention J.K. Rowling. Kwsni, that sounds the the opener for a really interesting joke. A pregnant centaur and a telepath walk into a bar...
Posts: 334 | Registered: Sep 2003
|
posted
A pregnant centaur and a telepath walk into a bar.
The bartender says, "What can I get for you?"
The telepath says, "I'd like a martini."
The bartender turns to the centaur and says, "And for you?"
The centaur turns her head toward the telepath, who concentrates for a moment and then says, "She's pregnant, so she doesn't want anything alcoholic. Can you make a virgin margarita?"
The bartender says, "Sure." Then, with a puzzled frown, he asks, "She didn't say anything. How did you know what she wants?"
"I'm a telepath."
"Oh." The bartender lowers his voice, and says, "I thought centaurs could talk."
"They can talk. It's just that she needs to rest her voice, because she's getting a little hoarse."
posted
Hehehe, that's great. The funny thing is, my story will probably be a modern fantasy, so they COULD walk into a bar. I may have to use that, or at least make reference to it, now.
posted
Ahh...one of those threads I overlooked because I was busily planning a wedding.
Now that I've seen it, I must sya...
quote:I mean, look at Terry Brooks
I'm sorry...but are you serious? Terry Brooks is the biggest Tokien wannabe of them all! His shanara series is full of cliches and tired plots spun out for the zillionth time. He is the epitome of what drives me nuts about the fantasy genre because the fantasy quest has been done, and done, and done....
posted
Yes, ma'am. The Shannara books sucked. And I read "Magic Kingdom For Sale: Sold" (I think that's what it's called) on recommendation from a friend, and it sucked too, but not quite as bad.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Dec 2003
|
You know, there are those that dismiss all fantasy and SF writing as derivative trash. Actually, there are those that dismiss any story that isn't essentially a poor copy of Notes from Underground with an existentialist twist as being derivative trash.
I think the point was that Terry Brooks has succeeded despite being pretty cliche. I read one of his books and enjoyed it. I didn't feel inspired to read all (or really any) of his others, true, but we're writers, not drug dealers
quote:Terry Brooks is the biggest Tokien wannabe of them all!
Yeah, I know. Thats what I meant. He downright abuses the Tolkien world, and gets away with it. I'm merely using him as an example of "hey, you can write a successful fantasy series that feels a bit like Tolkien at times". Brooks is just an extreme example. But at least he proves that there is still money to be made in fantasy beyond Tolien.
For a better example, check out the loved and loathed Robert Jordan books (Wheel of Time). Another very Tolkienesque series that has found its place in the market.
posted
Ahhh...point taken about Brooks, I misunderstood.
At the risk of getting into another Jordan bashing/loving/hating/adoring session....I disagree that Jordan is a tokien wannabe. Actually, I find that he finally did something unique with the story; unique enough that I have come to love his world. (Even if I absolutely refuse to buy another book until he's done.) First of all, his world is devoid of elves and dwarves, which is a big cliche he does not copy. His Ogier are interesting and new. He has also taken us on an epic that has grown to such complexity that it feels very real....the depth and vastness of the lands and characters is a step beyond what had been done before. (And honestly, those who have tried to copy him since have not done such a good job.)
Actually, Jordan is an example of an author that many accuse of being Tokienesque (sp?) when he isn't. This is probably why cvgurau asked his question....if Jordan is considered Tokenesque because his world is set in pre-modern times, then how can he put a new spin on the idea?
To me, to be Tokenesque, a stoy needs to do the following: 1. Be set in a pre-modern time. (You know the time period I mean, but I refuse to call it Medieval cuz it ain't. ) 2. Center around a naive main character who loses much of that naivety by the end. 3. Involve a hero's quest. 4. Include a world with races of elves and dwarves.
Actually, by this reasoning, jordan's first few books are *almost* Tokienesque, missing only the last criterion, but they lose it when they go beyond the hero's guest model in book 3. They then turn into something else.
posted
I will admit, Shawn, that "growing" probably makes a better punchline. But it's not the original punchline to this particular joke.
Posts: 1517 | Registered: Jul 2003
|
posted
Yes good lord, a few people touched on this but the whole I mean WHOLE middle earth thing is actually almost a retelling of Nordic and early european tales that used to be put to song.
There is a whole article at NationalGeographic.com or there was anyways.
I mean elves, dragons, knights, have been the premise of CENTURIES old stories long before JRRT, even though I think he is awesome.
One of my favorite spins on the whole knight things was George Lucas's Jedi Knights, what a unique path to take the whole knight concept down!
Now of course whenever I mention GL or Star Wars please excuse anything beyond SW,TESB,and ROTJ, I do not acknowledge the other ones.
posted
Ugh. Bless Prof Tolkien for giving us the material for the films and all, but damn him too. I'm so sick of hearing fantasy novels and the like being trashed because they involve elves, dwarves, quests and evil. Hello, welcome to mythology! People other than JRR-bloody-Tolkien are allowed to have a bash too, you know?
Sorry. This subject appears to aggravate me.
I say go for it, write the story. True, people should try to do something new, but if they want to do a mythology, they shouldn't let He Who Shall Not Be Named Anymore and his legions of thralls stop them.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
