posted
I seem to be filled with lists nowadays. First a link to the 10 mistakes writers don't see. Then a link to Orwell on writing. Now a list from an article I read yesterday entitled, "What Successful Writers Don't Do." The only problem with the article, which was published in the 1950s, is that it doesn't define what it means to be successful.
* * * * *
1. Successful writers don't talk about the idea on which they're working.
2. Successful writers do not spend a lot of time at meetings, in clubs, or striving to be social lions.
3. Successful writers don't consider any part of their work as unimportant, or relatively less important, than other parts.
4. Successful writers don't look for compliments or criticism from amateur sources.
5. Successful writers do not try to work mentally on more than one project at a time.
6. Successful writers are not discouraged by the little difficulties that constantly arise in this life to plague any person who strives to accomplish more than the average.
7. Successful writers do not spend their time vainly trying to reform a magazine's outlook or an editor's philosophy.
8. Successful writers do not fritter away one of their greatest assets--time. They will spend their free time reading.
9. Successful writers do not try to spread themselves thin by trying to be other than what they are -- writers. Thus, they are not political activists, social reforms, evangelists, etc.; if they are any of these things, they are them through their writing.
10. Successful writers do not waste their time, their emotions, and their thinking power by being envious of other writers.
11. Successful writers do not pay to have their books published, waste money on writer's clubs, or participate in fraudulent mail-in writing courses.
12. Successful writers do not play games with their success; they know there is only one secret of their success: They are successful because they write every day.
* * * * *
The author, of course, elaborated on each of these points. I'll leave it to you all to interpret (and discuss) each point as you see fit.
[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited October 23, 2003).]
posted
How about one more--successful writers don't argue with their agents? LOL
Most of these apply to this age as well. I say that because a lot has changed since the 1950's.
I do understand the amateur sources one--greatly. You need people that are at the same point in writing that you are to crit your work. If you have made it to having an agent or a publisher it is very important. If you are just starting out you want someone above you to crit you--I guess that's true no matter where you are. Above you is better, below and you end up with comments that tell you to make something into an error.
I have had people argue with me about things that are clearly wrong--or do not work.
And honestly, after spending a year working with my agent--I see things now that I know are going to sink someone's work. ( a collection of things mostly) Does it do me any good to point it out? No. Why? Because at the stage they are at they do not see what they are doing as an error or a mistake that will cost them publication or representation. They will argue into next year with me about it. They must be right--I want to say OK, go ahead and do it that way---because they will eventually learn that you have to follow the rules to get in the door or they won't get in the door.
And all those published writers that a person can quote as breaking this rule and that--I'm glad for them, but they didn't do that when they started out and with so many wanna be's out there now--why do these people want to sabotage their work? I have no idea. You can't look at exceptions and say they are the rule.
Whew--soap box.
Shawn has once again gotten cutting e-mails about my posts, my grammar in posts, and snips of my writing people have seen.
Why do I deserve an agent, when some e-mailers "write a 1000 times better?" Maybe because I am willing to follow the rules, maybe because I have put years of work into getting to this point, and maybe because I can set ego aside and say --yeah that sure sucked--I'll rewrite it.
I thought I could do what I have always done and help beginning writers--seems that that rule about amateurs is true. Find someone above you to crit your work or skip it. (the crit group I have been with for almost 2 years now aside)
I can also add one more to that list--successful writers don't bother with BB's--no one wants to hear what they say anyway. Which would explain why successful writers don't bother with them.
Shawn
[This message has been edited by srhowen (edited October 23, 2003).]
posted
1. Successful writers don't talk about the idea on which they're working.
Why? I talk about my ideas quite often with friends who have some interest in my stories. They often times poke big logic holes in my ideas sometimes.
2. Successful writers do not spend a lot of time at meetings, in clubs, or striving to be social lions.
Ok, not a problem for me.
3. Successful writers don't consider any part of their work as unimportant, or relatively less important, than other parts.
So the not as exciting parts which set up the comming conflict and support the conflict happening have as much relavence as the main conflict?
4. Successful writers don't look for compliments or criticism from amateur sources.
This rules the majority of us here out.
5. Successful writers do not try to work mentally on more than one project at a time.
But what if some of us are more than capable of handling ten different projects at once? Sounds like a person limitation to me.
6. Successful writers are not discouraged by the little difficulties that constantly arise in this life to plague any person who strives to accomplish more than the average.
I can agree with this one.
7. Successful writers do not spend their time vainly trying to reform a magazine's outlook or an editor's philosophy.
There must have been a shortage of magazines back in the 50's.
8. Successful writers do not fritter away one of their greatest assets--time. They will spend their free time reading.
So when do they write? Spend some time with thier spouse, children, ect? Is dinner concidered free time?
9. Successful writers do not try to spread themselves thin by trying to be other than what they are -- writers. Thus, they are not political activists, social reforms, evangelists, etc.; if they are any of these things, they are them through their writing.
Since I am not successful, I guess being a programmer for a living is ok.
10. Successful writers do not waste their time, their emotions, and their thinking power by being envious of other writers.
This is not a big problem, but I can say that there are so many writers better than I am sure it would be pointless anyways.
11. Successful writers do not pay to have their books published, waste money on writer's clubs, or participate in fraudulent mail-in writing courses.
Does this site count as a "writer's club"?
12. Successful writers do not play games with their success; they know there is only one secret of their success: They are successful because they write every day.
Maybe one day I will be successfull and will be able to see if this is true.
Thanks Balthasar, it's nice to know that some things can change. I think if there had been computers and word processors back in the 50's then that list would probably change a bit. If I had to go through the process that was required back in the 50's I would probably find some other way to point my creative desires. Doing revisions with a typewriter would drive me crazy.
[This message has been edited by Lord Darkstorm (edited October 23, 2003).]
posted
This is a neat list. My only beefs are #2 and #8.
#2: No meetings? -- I have done some of my best plotting, outlining and flat-out writing in overly long meetings and business reviews. It's the only thing that makes me look forward to going.
#8: Reading!!! -- my problem is that I need to STOP reading and KEEP writing. I read like some people smoke.
There needs to be a patch or something.
Alethea
[This message has been edited by Thieftess (edited October 23, 2003).]
quote:3. Successful writers don't consider any part of their work as unimportant, or relatively less important, than other parts.
So the not as exciting parts which set up the comming conflict and support the conflict happening have as much relavence as the main conflict?
Yes, because without the "not as exciting parts which setup the coming conflicts..." your conflicts will exist in vacuum that will make sense to no one but you.
Why and how your characters get to the big event at the end of the book are just as important as what happens during that big event, perhaps more, because without the leadup, your big event has no meaning.
quote:5. Successful writers do not try to work mentally on more than one project at a time.
But what if some of us are more than capable of handling ten different projects at once? Sounds like a person limitation to me.
Spread yourself too thin and you'll get nothing done on any of them. You only have so much time in a day to get things done.
[quote9. Successful writers do not try to spread themselves thin by trying to be other than what they are -- writers. Thus, they are not political activists, social reforms, evangelists, etc.; if they are any of these things, they are them through their writing.
Since I am not successful, I guess being a programmer for a living is ok. [/quote]
That would make you a programmer who just happens to write on the side, just as I am a student to writes occasionally. We might both of us be published at one time or another, but unless we focus only on the writing, we have little chance of becoming a huge name.
The majority of writers who are succesfull followed these rules or something similiar to get there. I would imagine that there are exceptions, but I would also think that they are rare.
posted
[qutoe]That would make you a programmer who just happens to write on the side, just as I am a student to writes occasionally. We might both of us be published at one time or another, but unless we focus only on the writing, we have little chance of becoming a huge name[/quote]
I agree, but since I have an income I do not need to have my stories published. Yes, one day I would like it to happen, but I am not banking my life on it. I spent 5 years learning to be a good developer, and if writing takes me 5+ to get there then I can live with that. I still think that if you put time and effort into learning and improving your abilities in a paticular area you can become very good at it without having to dedicate your life to only that one thing. I do not spend every waking moment learning new programming concepts, I learn what I need as I need it.
My way of doing things will differ from someone else, and if my way is different that doesn't always make it wrong. If I try doing something the wrong way I can fix it once I realize it is wrong. I think the hardest part is determining what is wrong. OSC might say one thing, and someone else says another. Who do you believe? If authors are not in agreement on paticular concepts of writing, what make one more correct than the other? Thats why I avoid just going with the flow. I listen, I analyse and determine what I want to try. If it doesn't work, I try something else.
Time I have, patience I usually have, and the passion I have plenty. I'll keep my day job, and let my writing improve as it does.
posted
Lord D.: You have a point -- To whom ought you to listen? I don't read so many books on how to write, but I consume letters and interviews of authors I respect. From what I've gathered, the 12 aforementioned points are true. If we had to delimit them to three, we have the following:
1. Read a lot. 2. Write a lot -- i.e., keep a daily writing schedule. 3. Cultivate a thick skin for the criticisms and disappointments you'll have to endure.
I think some of the above points -- don't be social lions -- hinders the writers ability to read a lot and write a lot. Others -- such as spend all your free time reading -- need to be qualified according each individual. I have a wife and kids, and I don't consider spending time with them "free time." When they all go to bed and I choose to stay up watching the World Series, I might be "frittering" my free time away.
[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited October 23, 2003).]
posted
1. Successful writers don't talk about the idea on which they're working.
Maybe I'm wrong, but #1 says to me - don't just talk about it, do it. I know just from reading the acknowledgements of great books that the authors talk through alot with others - family, friends, experts, editors, agents... so maybe it is more like stop going on about your great idea and get your behind in the chair and actually write! (it speaks to me that way, anyway)
2. Successful writers do not spend a lot of time at meetings, in clubs, or striving to be social lions.
For me the key words here are "a lot" because writers do spend some time doing these things. This might be where "spend time on bbs" could be added! So some time is ok, but don't do it to the point that you don't do your writing.
5. Successful writers do not try to work mentally on more than one project at a time.
I have read authors who clearly do work on more things at once - I think this is really a personal issue - does it help or hurt your focus to have multiple eggs in the pan, or does it all get scrambled up? Having something else to work on when you get to the sticking point could help, then you can go back fresh to what was troubling you.
6. Successful writers are not discouraged by the little difficulties that constantly arise in this life to plague any person who strives to accomplish more than the average.
I think you could be discouraged - it is whether you let that stop you, or you deal with it and go on - it could even fire you up!
8. Successful writers do not fritter away one of their greatest assets--time. They will spend their free time reading.
While tv was just getting started back when this article was written, I think you could throw that in here - you don't waste time watching tv instead of writing. Not that there might not be worthwhile things to watch, but you can get sucked in, and suddenly you wonder where the time has gone. I can't imagine a rational person would mean family time was wasted free time. When you make time for writing, don't let yourself be distracted by things that can allow you to procrastinate! Free time would be what is left to you after everything else - do you watch a rerun, or break out a good book? Besides, you weren't doing anything between 2-4am? Sleeping is overrated - you'll do it when you're dead (unless there is a Heaven, but Heaven for me would include lots of time to read...)
11. Successful writers do not pay to have their books published, waste money on writer's clubs, or participate in fraudulent mail-in writing courses.
Maybe the trick here is the whole "pay" issue. This is a free bb, but obviously has a lot of value. Does anyone here actually pay to be in a writer's club?
12. Successful writers do not play games with their success; they know there is only one secret of their success: They are successful because they write every day.
Yeah - gotta agree with the write every day thing, and need to do it more, and more...
quote:11. Successful writers do not pay to have their books published, waste money on writer's clubs, or participate in fraudulent mail-in writing courses.
Maybe the trick here is the whole "pay" issue. This is a free bb, but obviously has a lot of value. Does anyone here actually pay to be in a writer's club?
Yes. I pay a whopping 9 pounds (approx US$15) per annum for membership of my local writer's circle. :-)
posted
I don't know if these are all exactly right, but as starting writers we'd be very foolish to ignore these warnings.
Posts: 144 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I think maybe this should be entitled "What Some Successful Writers Don't Do". For example:
1. Successful writers don't talk about the idea on which they're working.
Tolkien did. OSC does. Neither to the general public, but to people they trust[ed].
4. Successful writers don't look for compliments or criticism from amateur sources.
OSC runs all his manuscripts past his wife before sending them to an editor. Most authors pay carefully limited attention to how their readership as a whole feals.
5. Successful writers do not try to work mentally on more than one project at a time.
Asimov generally had dozens of open projects at any time. It's how he avoided writer's block.
9. Successful writers do not try to spread themselves thin by trying to be other than what they are -- writers. Thus, they are not political activists, social reforms, evangelists, etc.; if they are any of these things, they are them through their writing.
Eric Flint is active in politics. OSC does organizational work in his church. Mercedes Lackey protects wounded hawks. I seem to recall Somerset Maughm (sp?) saying that no one should ever be just a writer, because that would leave them with nothing to write about. And I'm sure we've read those who tried to push social reforms in their fiction -- blech!
There are probably other counter-examples too; I don't know the lives of great authors very well.
[This message has been edited by Narvi (edited October 24, 2003).]
posted
Successful writers need something to write about. Therefore, I do not believe anyone should abstain from all social groups or political organizations. Inspiration comes from life, if it only came from other books we'd never see anything new.
Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003
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