posted
I feel like I need to vent and get some feedback. Editing sucks! I almost made that the subject for the thread. Here's my situation: Back in March of last year I finished the first draft of a novel that I started back in fall of 2000. I printed out the whole mess and did a copy edit. That took a month. Then I spent three more months entering the edits into the computer.
This fall I got the it critted by one of the kind members of our community.
I am now working on my official second draft. It is taking forever. I am only up to page 160 of 452 manuscript pages.
Editing/re-writing at this detailed level is taking nearly as long as I originally spent writing the thing in the first place, and it is not nearly as much fun!
So my question to you all is simple: How do you stay motivated through such a tedious process? I know it has got to be done, but how can I make it through without going nuts?
Any Ideas?
Dave
[This message has been edited by Ergoface (edited February 05, 2004).]
posted
I'm in pretty much the same situation on a similar time-scale. Started work summer 2000 finished 2002 been editting ever since on and off. That's my problem, it's on and off.
I used to work in a supermarket, stacking shelves and because that's hardly taxing on the brain, I'd spend all day planning and reviewing sections of my story. That meant what I actually wrote down was, in effect, my third or fourth draft already. By the time I finished the book I had spent so much time on it that I knew it inside out, could probably recite it and was sick to death of it.
What I did then was started on something completely different. Wrote several short stories, went back over a previous book I'd written, editting and rewriting it to include what I'd learnt in the meantime.
When I finally went back to the story I finished in 2002 I hadn't had anything to do with it for a while and was able to view it with fresh eyes and it wasn't so boring to edit. Plus, because I had been working on other stuff in the meantime, I had learnt knew ways of writing things that helped me improve the story in strange and wonderful ways. Which in turn led to another edit but that's another story.
So, I guess what I'm saying in a rambling, roundabout kind of way, is that I get over the boredom of editting by leaving it a little while and working on other projects at the same time and in between. Of course, looking at it, it might not exactly be time-effective but who cares? Not I. I'm only learning at the moment and not too fussed about the time it takes. My seminal work isn't planned for another twenty three years yet.
[This message has been edited by Gwalchmai (edited February 05, 2004).]
It seems to be working for me. While the second draft of my book still has it's issues and leaves room for improvement, it never, ever, will be perfect.
The key for me, however, that maybe Holly doesn't quite touch on much, is get it as right the first time as you can. I dont' mean 'edit as you go', I simply mean have a well thought story when you start. And as the prior post indicates, you can be thinking about it all the time, day and night, so that when you do sit down to write it's not so 'raw'. Good Luck!! (Keep in mind, no matter how well polished, somebody **will** find some room for improvement. I just finished "Shadow of the Hegemon", found a million ares where it could have been "better", but damn! It was one heck of a good book).
First. How are you "rewriting" your story? Are you actually rewriting it -- that is, rekeying it -- or are you more or less playing with the version you already have. If you just playing with it, then you should stop; I find that to be very tedious. Trying rekeying it -- that's right, start fresh on page one and physically rewrite the entire thing using your first draft and notes as a guide. This is more enjoyable to me because I can get deeper into the story, drawing out more details, sharpening the characters, discovering new possibilities for so-so storylines.
Second. Have you written anything else? Are you writing anything else? Why not put the whole thing on the shelf for six months and write a couple of short stories, a novella, or even anothter novel. Just get your mind off of it by diving into another project.
Third. Go easy and take a break.
Fourth. I don't know where you're at in your writing life, but you might want to serious consider this question: Is it worth it? We writers have self-doubt. But do you find the story gripping? Do you think the story is meaningful? If not, then maybe you should just put it away for good. What I found that if I can get away from it and start working on something else (usually something short), they story will grow or diminish in my own mind. If it grows, I can usually find what I need to keep working on it. If it diminishes, I take that as a sign that I need to hang that one up. There's no shame in this -- just a brutally honest apprasial of the story you've told.
posted
Consider how much you enjoy reading your story, without the consideration of editing it. That should help you get a grip on your particular difficulties.
Then look at it from the perspective that you're going to be reading it ten or fifteen times. At that point, editing becomes a lot less of a chore, and much more something you want to do.
posted
ccwbass, that was the best advice I've ever heard. The ninja approach to writing is by far the most effective.
Jerome, are you freaking insane? Seriously, just start from page one and rewrite the whole thing? I wouldn't wish such a horrible fate on my worst enemy. I would rather do pretty much anything in the world than completely rewrite an entire novel. I'd say if I don't get it good enough in the rough draft to at least keep the bare bones of what I wrote, it's probably best just to start a completely new story.
As far as how to get through the tedium of editing, I got nothing. Tough it out is all I can say. When it gets down to it, there's no way to get around it, you just have to tough it out until it's done. Or, said another way, pretend you're in a dojo and kick its ass.
posted
I did that with a novel once. It was the first one I had ever written and I had written quite a lot of other stuff since. I still liked the actual storyline and I thought it would be interesting to see how much it would change if I wrote it again putting into practice what I'd learnt in the meantime. Using my original story as a rough guideline whenever I wondered how I had done a certain bit originally, it didn't actually take that long to rewrite because I already knew what was going to happen. Okay, a few bits changed here and there and the style was a bit different but the basic plot was the same so it was a fairly quick business.
Posts: 156 | Registered: Nov 2003
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No. Twenty-five years ago, many writers had a great fear of word processors and computers. They wrongly believed that technology somehow wrote the story for you; that it made writing too easy. But writing is hard no matter what you use to do it with: pen or pencil, typewriter, computer, tape recorder. But not all of their fears were unreasonable. For EDITING, computers are a divine boon upon all writers. But they've made the REWRITING process too easy. If you're not substantially rekeying most of your story, then I wonder if you're really REWRITING it -- that is, rethinking it, making it clearer, more vivid, more meaningful. I would suspect that what you call "rewriting" most people would call "editing."
Of course, I'm not as blessed as you are to get it almost right the first time.
[This message has been edited by Jerome Vall (edited February 05, 2004).]
posted
Whoa! Hold back the fireballs...we're talking about 2 different things.
EDITING involves a basically complete novel, with most of its guts intact. These changes include grammar, spelling. punctuation, and a few awkward sounding phrases here and again. You could also consider cutting unneccessary words, phrases, and sentences editing, as well as adding just a little bit of description. The point is, however many changes are involved, EDITING means small changes.
REWRITING, whether in whole or in part, happens when something really did not work and you may as well start it over because little changes won't cut it. So little of your original manuscript will still be left intact that you may as well hit the drawing board. You can end up rewriting a chapter, a few chapters, or the entier novel.
I do understand how rewriting an entire novel could be a tedious task. I'm currently rewriting mine, which I finished in a rough form a few months ago. One thing I did NOT do the first time around was spend too much time EDITING. That is, I let all the grammar, spelling, awkward phrasing problems go and just looked at it for content. When I realized that the content needed to be changed sufficiently to warrant a total rewrite, I had not spent soooo much time on the details that I was sick of the whole project. Editing is the last step to this entire process for a good reason. I've had people disagree with me, telling me that a polished draft is the only way to get good feedback, but if you find a good wise reader then they know better than berate you for every sentence written in passive voice.
But you're past this, you've got a novel to rewrite and you're sick of it. Well, stop writing it! You can't possible write a book you're sick of. The spirit is dead, you've beaten it to death. This is why many writiers, OSC included, recommended making your first draft your final draft. Some profesional writers never write a second draft.
Start another project, find something else you can be passionate about. Who knows, in a few years you might rekindle your interest in this project and you can write it then. But I know you can't write it now, it just won't work.
posted
Thanks all for the responses. As to what I am doing, I'm primarily editing. There is a section in the middle of the novel that I've now had a couple of people say feels too long or repetitive, so I am going to see about actually re-writing and condensing that section.
How do I feel about the novel? I still read it and say "This is good stuff. Where can I read more stuff from this guy."
I know that sounds like raging ego, but I have never felt like this is crap and should go in the trash. My only problem with the kick its butt proposition for editing is that I've never been able to last through a 300 round fight.
Bottom line, I guess I just keep slogging and one day it will be done. It is definitely worth it.
Of course, after I do finish, it will need another crit, more work, then I can send it out to get ignored and trashed by agents and editors. What was I thinking when I started this writing thing?
posted
good books are not written they are rewritten. I spent 4 months writing MEDICINE MAN. Then put it through 12 drafts of my own. (I have a very specific way I edit) That took another month.
Then my agent and I spent several months putting it through 4 more drafts.
So 16 drafts. If I added up actual time spent editing not waiting to hear what my agent thought of the most recent draft etc--the book took about 6 months time total.
About 9 months total time with my agent before he began marketing it. IN that time I wrote a second book. Now on draft 3.
I no longer count working drafts. I get to the print out draft and print it quad spaced. Then make a mess of notes etc--and rekey the entire thing.
Why? I started writing when it involved white out and re-keying every time you wanted to make a major change. And I discovered along the way that by re-keying it entirely I catch many many many things.
SO even after you have the thing to the best of your ability--be prepared to do some more. And the rewriting (edits) take longer than the first draft. (if you are a straight through writer)
posted
Thank you, Shawn, for putting it so nicely: "Good books are not written, they are rewritten."
Printing out in quad spacing seems like it is a good tip: I'll be sure to do that with my next story. It seems that it might work better than making notes on a yellow notepad.
Don't be afraid to do some serious rewriting if something simply doesn't work for you.
On the other hand, if you feel stongly enough about something and don't really see a need to change it, then don't change it.
At some point you've got to give your helpful critics the proverbial, no, wait, the literal finger and take your chances on your own stuff. An actual editor at a publishing house will help you with the passages, if any, that need work. The rest of us are just telling you how we would write your story for you, which is pretty silly, when you think about it.
So, when it comes to editing your work, I suggest that you ask yourself the following questions:
[1] Have I written the kind of story I want to read?
[2] Does my Helpful Reader understand the plot? (NOT "does my helpful reader like my prose or like my plot")
[3] Using my own reading and the questions, if any, posed by my Helpful Reader, have I plugged up the plot loopholes and tied up glaring loose ends?
[4] Have I fixed the areas of prose that I just wasn't buying after I gave it a cold read?
As soon as you can answer "yes" to these questions, print it up and send it out. If the rest of us knew what we were doing, we'd all be too busy attending SciFi conventions as honored guests to post in this forum.
Cameron
[This message has been edited by ccwbass (edited February 06, 2004).]
posted
My vote: I am a fan of rekeying. I am on my second novel and in the rewrite process. I find that in rekeying I flesh out the story and notice the details I omitted the first time through that are essential to the reader's understanding of the story.
I let the first draft sit for a month or two, go back and read it is as few sessions as possible, making notes on a legal pad as I go. Then I sit with the ms and the notes in front of me and start in...it doesn't take as long as you would think since most is written in front of me and I just copy it. But it is a bit boring. I take lots of stretching breaks. When I am done I know that this draft is better than the last one...so it is worth it.
posted
If you're simply editing your own story...I have no help. I've always found final edits to be both easy and pleasurable. Sorry.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Glad to hear that, Survivor. I was afraid I was the only one who doesn't mind self-editing -- even enjoys it. I can pick up some written work and, just like that, I'm into it.
(Couldn't resist. )
[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited February 07, 2004).]
But I look at numbers. How many chapters do you have? Can you edit one per day? Two? It might be encouraging to think you'll be done in one month at one chapter per day, or two weeks at three chapters each day.
Also, don't think of the process as editing 452 pages. Break it down. When you get to page 90, you are 1/5 done. 25 more pages and you're roughly 1/4 done. Then another 35 pages and you're 1/3 done. Soon, it's halfway done, then 100 pages left and it's a breeze from there. Page 1 of 452 might make you want to go lie in a fetal position )
Lastly, just keep in your mind that the editing process is extremely valuable because you are making your story better and better, which will give it more of a chance to get into the hands of an agent and eventually, a publisher. Good luck and keep plodding!
posted
I think the biggest problem with editing is that it's not quite as exciting as the process of initial creation. When that story is banging itself out on the keyboard, almost unbidden, well, that's kinda cool. Editing, though, is a more tedious chore.
Thing is, though, editing is creative. You've had your raw creative blast, and now you get to shape and refine it. That's making that good story that banged itself out into a much better story. You get to find that theme in the major plot and strengthen its reflection in the subplots. You get to draw stronger links between the beginning and the end. You get to drop little hints here and there for the reader and, if you enjoy such things, drop hints that'll throw them off the scent so that final plot twist is that much more shocking.
Keep reminding yourself of that, and it doesn't seem quite so bad.
I guess it also helps to be a perfectionist when it comes to writing. That way, you can't physically put down the paper until that little mistake is ironed out
posted
I love skimming through a text, changing one word at a time to get just the right mood, or changing just one line at a time. I love crafting delicatly, but I dislike the part of editting which requires retyping.
Posts: 697 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Once again, Thanks all for the input and encouragement. It is amazing just to see how many different ways people use in building their final output. I always knew there were sick people out there who actually enjoy editing. I alas, am not one of them.
It was such a push just to finish the first draft of this thing. It never even occured to me that I would be going over many, many times.
Such is the loss of innocence, and growth of experience.
Dave
Anyone besides me notice how much I have to edit my posts? Irony, yes irony abounds.
[This message has been edited by Ergoface (edited February 07, 2004).]
posted
I should say that I love reading a work in which the only things left to correct are minor changes in language, like correcting awkward usages and grammatical mistakes. I can't correct for spelling any better than a fish might...that's what spellchecks are for.
Rewriting isn't particularly painful for me, but it certainly isn't the unadulterated pleasure that going through a work for final polishing always seems. Rewriting is hard work, final edits are nearly play.
I actually find the first written draft to be the hardest. For me, the true 'first draft' is all in my head, as are the next two or three creative refinement stages. The first written draft is where the work begins for me. The last rewrite is where the hard work ends. In the final edit, I'm enjoying the work in essentially finished form, for good or ill. The work of reading just to spot minor errors, in the confirmed belief (true or not, this is what you must believe of the draft to do a final edit) that all the substantive errors that gave you so much difficulty have been banished.
Any half competent monkey could do the final edit for you, you do it yourself because you love reading the final version with the attention it deserves.
If I don't enjoy the final edit, then it isn't the final edit...I have to rewrite the thing.
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