posted
In reading about writing, I've found there seem to be two types of writing goals that both revolve around "okole in chair." Some people set a period of time during which they must be in that chair, regardless of output. Other people set a word count, after which they are free to get up.
Regarding the word count - does that include things like writing exercises and other forms of writing such as editing/rewriting, or does it mean story writing exclusively? And thus, by setting a word count, do such people have accompanying goals, say time for research or proofreading or rewrites?
What if you aren't ready to start your story? Do you just have one you are working on to fill the word count, for practice and to keep the habit? I have several stories in various stages of production, but would feel odd writing a draft before I thought I was prepared (since I have 'ending' issues the preparation, I have found, is necessary).
I have an odd schedule, and must fit in writing time depending on, for example, how long my twins nap! So far I have used the time based on where I am in a project - researching, outlining, writing or editing. Usually if I am not at a writing stage I do a writing exercise. Would I do better to actually set myself a story-writing daily goal? What do you do?
posted
Word count is whatever you say it is, Lee. Even with your odd schedule, sounds like you're pretty regular with your writing, which alone is a profitable accomplishment.
I'm a bit spurty. Things like tax preparation and grandkids coming for a week completely throw me off, and I'm glad to get some editing in, or at least some sporadic re-reading to keep my subconscious working.
However, does filling up pages with possible pen-names count toward word count? (I didn't think so.)
posted
When I was first starting out, I asked myself the same questions. Like you, I'm a stay-at-home parent (I'm a Dad), and like you each day is quite different. I have really strange working habits that I'll share with you.
When I'm working out a story--and I do this by writing down the ideas as they come--I work whenever I can. My computer is always on, and I'll sit down and write my ideas as I come. So long as I'm in this brainstorming stage, I'll work when my kids (3 years and 9 months) are asleep. Otherwise, I read.
Once this brainstorming period is over--and I wish I could tell you when it's over, but I can't; I just know--then I go back to my normal writing schedule. I don't require a lot of sleep, so I work between 9 and midnight six days a week.
This is when I take all of these notes and develop them into a story treatment, and this is when I write. Since I don't have 8 hours a day open to me, I only work on one project at a time. So when I'm working out a story treatment, I'm not writing. But when I'm writing, I'm only writing. My goal is 10 pages a day--1.5 margins, Courier font, size 12, double-spaced pages; in short, a properly formatted manuscript page. This output yeilds 2,000 words a day. I can't write more, and I don't want to write less. As soon as these 10 pages are complete, I'm free to do what I want (like I am tonight).
As for reading, I read whenever I can--usually when my kids nap. My goal is 50 pages a day, and I'll stay up an extra hour to get those pages read.
In short, I don't think about writing in terms of the physical act of writing, but as working. So long as I'm working on a project and making headway, I'm happy.
One more thing--and this has really helped me--I keep of list of books I've read, and I keep a journal of what I do each day: brainstorm, story treatment, how many pages I write, etc. If you do this, you'll realize that you get more done than you think.
[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited March 23, 2004).]
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Here's my schedule: I get up at 6 am. Leave for work at 7am. Work all day until 5ish. I get home around 6pm, later if traffic is bad. After dinner, spending time with my wife, and misc work around the house it's usually 8pm. That's when I get the chance to sit down at the computer. I do other things besides writing. I usually have about 2 hours to devote to my WIP. My current WIP is going to be 100,000 words. I've set a goal of 2 pages a day, about 500 words. The first draft should be done in about 200 days.
ALso, I always have a notebook with me. I joy down ideas as htey come to me. Even in they're not part of my current project. Especially if they're not part of my current project. If I do some writing that isn't my current project, I don't add it to my word count.
posted
I also have young kids, so I have to work when I can. My older child has recently given up napping, which has complicated matters somewhat! My two play fairly well independently (and together), so I can sometimes write with one ear/eye on them as they play. It depends on what I'm doing, of course--writing in the middle of chaos, with kids climbing on me and asking me to find missing pieces of toys, does not work for every project! (Having a laptop really helps!) Also, they have limited patience with my attention being elsewhere.
Mostly, I write when my husband is home. He's a teacher, so my usual writing time is after school and before dinner. It's not my naturally most productive time of day (that's first thing in the morning or late evening), but it's what I get right now.
Of course, there are days, like today, when I won't get to work in the afternoon because there are other things on the schedule. I do the best I can to fit something in.
Unlike many, I don't have a set amount of time or a set number of words/pages as a goal; I just want to get in some productive time each day. It has to be actual writing, though, on a project, not exercises. On a good day, I can do 15 pages. On a bad day, it may only be 2 or 3. If I don't get any writing time at all, I get very frustrated and difficult to live with!
I'm hoping to get a better schedule soon, with real goals and specific time set aside, but that's going to have to wait until my family can live with more structure.
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Personally, I have such a hodgepodge schedule there's no way for me to plan anything out. I'm a musician and teach private lessonsds three days a week; I also perform in three different bands plus occasional pit orchestra's for musicals and whatever else I'm called upon to do, so needles to say my schedule is a mess.
So how do I address it and still crank out, at times, as much as six thousand words a day? I sit my butt in my chair, turn off the tv (which is a tough thing for me to do...it calls out to me, silently pleading with me to partake of it's wonderous imagery...oh, my poor little television....I digress), and then begin to work.
This usually required about a good 1/2 hour to hour of prep work first. And for me I don't mean the typical brainstorming or note taking...I find music gets my creative juices flowing. Pop a CD in, or maybe write down some poems, or perhaps just read writing forums! Whatever works. Eventually the ideas in my head start to grow and take form, then I start to write.
And write. And write. And I don't stop until I'm finished saying what I have to say...or until I pass out from lack of sleep (which is all too frequent).
Which begs the question, when? When do I manage to do this with two little kids, a wife, and all this musical activity (AND a full time job to boot)? I usually start around 9 or 10 pm when the house is fully into dreamland, and wrap up whenever I'm done. Some nights I have nothing and end up finishing around 11pm or so. Other nights I go until 3 or 4 in the morning. (Sloppy writing that usually turns out to be...but GREAT ideas and story telling which is fine...just means a little more editing later). That's how I do it, anyway. It got me a 104,000 word novel in just 30 days. The editing has taken twice as long as the rough draft did!
but then, most people prefer to sleep and maintain their sanity. (And to think...I do it without ever touching any coffee...).
quote:So, Kolona, you're a grandmother! That completely blows my mental picture of you.
Ah...and what might that have been? Probably a tall, oval-faced beauty with rich brown hair cascading from a swag of braids circling the crown of my head, svelte young figure classically clothed in fashionable business chic while I mastermind industrial espionage and sip brandy Alexanders.
Close, but no cigar.
Actually, I've mentioned my grandmotherliness before. You must have been scanning. (Oooh...'scan' ) (I gotta stop that.)
Interesting what the Internet can do with our imaginations, no? We're all playing blind man and the elephant, except with those few who have pictures on websites -- Shawn, Chronicles of Empire, James Maxey. I don't know who else. Oh yes. Survivor.
That's one reason Boot Camp is appealing -- possibly meeting some others of us -- though time, money, distance and conflict-of-interest restraints make it unlikely in my case, although I know I have to call it soon. That, and still not knowing what sort of ground transportation the SVU area has. (I like to know everything before I travel. )
[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited March 25, 2004).]
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Sharon, I've signed up for the Maui Writer's retreat again this year. You could always give that a try
I actually signed up for a literary fiction tract as I want to focus on character and setting. I just got back from the Panama Cruise with the Maui Writer's group and spent some quality time with Dorothy Allison and Gail Tsukiyama, both published literary writers. They have such passion for their work, it is contagious.
One of my stories written on the cruise will be published in an anthology called Ship's Log, stories at sea....coming out this Fall. It was an intense experience writing three stories in 10 days, and doing the shore excursions, eating 5 times a day, playing cards in the casino, music, dancing...blah blah...anyway...
If you can work your life around to attend a writer's retreat or conference you not only will have fun and learn, you also will network and make great friends. I hope you can make it happen.
You got the brown hair part right. For some reason, I put you in your early 30s--no older than 35--and I saw you as a cross between Sandra Bullock (sp?) and Patricia Richardson (the wife on Home Improvement). Don't ask me why I saw you like that. Just did.
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I was wondering how your cruise went, Marianne. Wow. A cruise and publication. Congrats. And Maui again?
I might be able to convince my hubby about Maui if I sell my book. Till then, the Columbus Writers Conference is more likely, though I am looking at BookExpo America in Chicago. (I know ground transportation is good there. ) If I might borrow from the Jews: Next year -- Maui!
Hmmm, Balthasar...Bullock and Richardson. I'll take it. They both have great hair. And I did take a nineteen-day bus trip once with two kids, kind of a family sit-com version of Speed.
Now I have to solidify my impression of you, but you can't force a thing like that. Give me a moment...
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I'm learning a lot - like we all have intense schedules and write what we can, when we can. I like the journal idea - it would help to have an idea of how much I accomplish (or don't accomplish) - I 'll try it. I'll include everything I do - that will help me see how I am spending my time too Then I can set some moderate goals, with plans to increase them as I get better organized. I don't have a 'room of my own' that works - writing and sf/f magazines and books in the bedroom, computer on a desk in the kitchen with a shelf of writing books nearby, but I have to write at the island (at least now I keep it clean!). I do have notebooks in both places to catch ideas, but often they come in the shower - maybe I need the bath saop crayons kids use...
I also get that period from about 9pm-midnight when the babies are asleep, but no matter how late I go to bed, they still get up early - this is not good. And that time is sometimes spent cleaning, folding laundry, etc. I've gotten really good at turning off the t.v. since having the babies - not that they don't get some too, but I'm more cognizant of the need to shut it off.
Kolona - I admit - my vision of you was sort of like Balthasar's! But I like the new image better - one of the people in my class is a grandmother too, and is working on her life story. Her style is very strong, and absolutely impressive. Hope I don't need to wait for grandkids to become that good! You are right about people having sites and pictures for us to see... I do have one left operating, but it is just something we threw together when we had the babies - we have not updated it in two years (I had one for my 8th graders, and one for my kung fu school, but they are down now). But if you really want to see me, it is http://budar-danoff.org/
I feel better about how I am going about setting goals, and what I can do to improve my goal-setting.
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I'm having fun reading these, and partly because some years ago I was the small child running around while my father took care of me and wrote. As a system it seems to have only one major flaw: your children may grow up to be writers. (Although I have to say, I had no illusions about the glamour of the writer's life, and with the number of scribblers in my family it may just be a genetic curse.)
I feel like a working schedule has to adapt to your personal speed as a writer. I'm fairly quick when I'm going, but I can have a slow recharge rate between sessions on short stories. So I don't use BIC for writing short stories: I wait for something to strike me. When I'm working on something longer the best method seems to be getting up an hour earlier and committing that time to writing-- I can get a lot done in that time, for some reason, on the order of fifty plus pages a week. The two methods seem to work well together. If I write twenty-five pages on the book in one day, I'll be pretty much dead on it for the next day or so, but I can start playing with a shorter project. It does mean I don't write as much between long projects... right now I have a new book-length project outlined, mostly in a six foot column of colored and coded strips of paper on my wall, which I'll start once my thesis rough draft is in.
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A room to write in? Oh, that would be bliss! I'm also a kitchen writer much of the time, in the middle of utter chaos. If I'm lucky, I get to sit in the bedroom in the rocking chair, with headphones on. I'm much more productive that way!
Last night, I ended up working at my in-laws' kitchen table, with sister-in-law playing with the kids, my mother-in-law cooking, father-in-law on the phone with brother-in-law, and my husband reading the paper next to me! It was actually productive time, too, which surprised me.
quote:I'm afraid I've been thinking of the lady as a rather sheltered child
Oh dear. Does it show? I was raised in a nunnery.
As soon as I logged out of that earlier post, Balthasar, it struck me. There's a commercial for dog food -- Mighty Dog, I think -- in which someone mistakenly puts a plate of dog food on the buffet table at a party. A fellow scoops some up on a cracker, but before he can eat it, the dog catches his attention. He tells the hostess that her dog has very sophisticated taste. Etc., etc. At any rate, that fellow is how I picture you, though maybe a bit younger. Doesn't exactly go with your Texas address, but I see you as a personable sophisticate, with an English aura -- the reason 'Simon' so fits you in my mind. (I wonder if Kathleen chose ‘Simon’ for a similar reason.)
I know. In reality you probably roll cigarette packs into the sleeve of your tee shirt. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. It just doesn't fit my mental image of you.)
Eljay, that would drive me nuts. I commend you on your ability to focus in the midst of all that. I've graduated from a closet with a window, basically, to a whole -- though small -- room now that we're empty-nesters. Still don't have enough space, shelf-wise, though. (We are never satisfied, are we?)
You have a nice Hawaiian look, Punahougirl, and the babies are sweet. Love their names.
I vaguely recall the commercial; if I see it again, I'll pay more attention. Yet, the phrase, "a personable sophisticate, with an English aura," is funny.
I suppose I'm a personable fellow--I like being with myself, which I find a rather rare quality among people (being alone with themselves--not being alone with me). But if by personable you mean attractive, you're way off. At 6'3" I'm considered tall, yes, but I'm about 40 pounds overweight and I hate to shave (which I do at little as possible.) I wear glasses, and my sandy-blonde hair--which I keep very short--is receiding in the front and thinning in the back. And frankly, I can't wait till I'm bald because that's one less thing I have to worry about.
Sophisticated is a strange word because one doesn't know how to take it: is it a compliment or an insult? The only thing sophisticated about me is that I don't like cheap beer, and when I buy nice clothes (which is very seldom) I buy expensive clothes. But mostly my wardrobe consists of sagging blue jeans and solid color tee-shirts. In the summer I wear shorts, and in the winter I throw a cozy flannel on. (When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I smoked quite a bit--I've quit since--but I never rolled my cigarettes in the sleeve of my shirt.)
Like being called sophisticated, telling someone they have an English aura can either be construed in a variety of ways, though I wouldn't call myself a Texasn, either. I don't have much of a Texas accent, if one at all, I don't like country music, and I don't walk around wearing a belt buckle that could be flipped over and used as a serving platter--and as a Catholic I'm somewhat of a religious outcast down here in the Bible Belt--but if it were economically fesible I'd own a big black pick-up truck.
Now that's a lot more than I wanted to say, but I'm not going to delete it since I've already typed it.
PS -- On one count, you were more accurate than you might have guessed: When I was a little boy, I used to eat my dog's dogfood as a snack.
[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited March 24, 2004).]
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Balthasar, I was afraid you might misconstrue 'sophisticate,' which is why I added 'personable,' as in a pleasant personality, which is why the fellow on the commercial seemed to fit. To me he seems like a gent who isn't stuffy. 'English' I meant in a good sense as well, as an Anglophile would see it. But I guess we're even. You contradicted some of my impressions. I was really hoping you'd say, "Wow! I moved here from London and I love pate!" (Hmmm...one of my sons used to eat Milkbone dog biscuits; used to dip them in his Tang. )
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
The commercial is for gourmet cat food, not dog food of any klnd, and certainly not Mighty Dog. I don't think it was Fancy Feast...though it might have been that.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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No the commercial is for dog food-- not sure which one--but it is dog food, it was just on last night. Fancy party, kitchen and the staff puts the little square blob of dog food out of the can on a plate and another worker picks up the plate and carries it out to the buffet where a guest uses a cracker to scoop some up--all the while the white terrier type dog is following the plate. He whines and the guest looks down holding the cracker and pets the dog giving it the cracker w/dog food on it. Hostess comes out and sees the plate and sets it on the floor for the dog--then guest says your dog has very sophisticated taste.
The fancy cat one is where the cat is served in a fancy desert glass. No humans about to eat pet food.
B--what part of Texas are your from? I'm near Austin--and no not a Texan either.
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Oh Kolona, you are so cute! And actually, to be truthful, while I was born and raised in Hawaii, and my dad grew up there, dad was born in Massachusetts, and mom was born and raised in Wilmington, Delaware (though her mom had lived in Hawaii for a couple of years when she was young, as part of a military family). But yes, writing at my 'island' seems oddly appropriate. I have a hula bear in here, and over my computer hangs a print of "Vincent's Waikiki" - it looks like a paint version of Waikiki a la Van Gogh, with a chalk-done sky like Starry Night.
I haven't actually told anyone in my family that I am writing. I was 'supposed' to be a lawyer, and dad still bugs me about it, or tells me I should get my PhD so I can teach at college where my income would be higher than my income as a middle school teacher... I've already got enough degrees and want to DO something other than school! So of course I'm taking creative writing classes Actually, my dad's mom was a writer, and at least two of his sisters are published writers - but I never really got to see their work habits as my grandmother died when I was 8, and one sister had a problem and I never met her. Actually, I did work with my Aunty Val - she had a publishing company (small), and did various hawaiiana, including a popular children's christmas book (hawaiian version of Twas the Night...). I often helped her edit manuscripts, but never really got to see her writing.
A year ago, when I was back home, my dad dragged out a bunch of writing stuff that belonged to my grandmother and aunts. I think he wants to do something with the stuff - so maybe I will get to get involved! I think they inspired me to see if this was a direction I wanted to go - I wish I could have talked to Aunty Val about it (but she passed before I went to grad school). Of course, chemistry is in my blood too, but that was my first "C" in high school - so blood doesn't always tell!
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Isn't it odd that the author doesn't look like you thought they would be. Like me I'm a 9 foot Amish guy. (Wait a moment, Amish can't use computers.) I mean I'm a three foot Russian woman. The first time I read something by Tracy Hickman I pictured a tall blond with hair to the ankles. (pretty much his Laurana char) Turns out he's male and not exactally blond. Onto the original subject I'm more of a wordcount. On a good day I do 1000 a day. (which depending on how fast I think takes an hour to eight) on a bad day I do nothing. So perhaps I should be more flexible.
Posts: 1895 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I'm at least 2 hours a day, and must days do at least 2,500 words. Most days I do 2 hours new writing and 4 to 6 hrs editing. And 5,000 words.
Lately, ugh, I've had a bad month. First my car got broken into, then a week later a lady driving in the dark and speeding with no headlights on, plowed into it and totaled it--so a week of pain killers, followed by this: last Monday the 7-eleven I work nights at was robbed at gun point--yes, I was there. Not fun.
So the last month--I think I spent a total of 2 hrs on any writing. I've switched to day shift (they thought I was going to just quit--that's what people do after a robbery) So, hopefully with working 2nd shift I will get more time to write again. I have to.
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All things considered, Shawn, it sounds like it's been a lucky month for you. You're still here. I hope the aftermath of all that is smoother for you.
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jun 2002
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And perhaps in a year or two you can look back on this month and develop it into a good novel. Being robbed at gun-point surely isn't a fun experience . . . but it is an experience most of us haven't had, thank God.
[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited March 26, 2004).]
Plus the "anything you survive makes you stronger" aspect. I figure that even if the bad stuff doesn't make me stronger, it can at least be "grist for the mill" and maybe someday I can use it in a story.
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Hi, Punahougirl. Was glad to see your post in the F&F section. I've been concerned you'd taken offense at my 'cute' comment, when none had been meant. Aloha nui. Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Shawn - I am sorry to hear about your 'month better not lived.' and very glad you have come away able to write at all. I personally hope that since you listed 3 really bad things that happened, that you are now done and no one will mess with you or your writing time. Don't suppose you could get a nice day job at a library - maybe one where you could do a lot of reading and writing?
Hi Kolona! Not at all - my husband's grandmother (and don't call her that - she's Nana!) is 95, and she is absolutely CUTE in the good ways She only retired from the newspaper she worked for when they asked her age and MADE her - she still teaches Yiddish at her retirement apartment building. But I meant your comment was cute, making the connection between where I work and where I'm from! I've been posting less because I was working our mothers of multiples consignment sale - Friday and Saturday (my feet still hurt), and my son threw up four times starting at 4am, so I'm dead AND on my feet. Plus I had totally changed the ending (and about doubled the size) of Onion Man based on the comments I received from you, Survivor, yanos, and ccwbass. I also started a new story, and critiqued some others' work, which meant I've been writing and editing but not posting much. Also, I wanted to get some comments back from my teacher before I finish my rewrite and send it to the other hatrackers who've so kindly volunteered to read. I am really an easy-going, laid-back person in many ways, and am the kind you can usually count on to understand what you mean - based on what little I know of you, I would never think you would be offensive or take something wrong, though I know when you have something important to include in a discussion you do so. Maybe I'll get lucky and meet you at a conference some day
Oh yeah, I usually run on Hawaiian time, but I'm trying to be really good about critique turn-arounds - only fair as people need them and I received mine in great time. I also love reading others' work - you learn so much from reading and doing critiques, but it is ruining the books I read - I'm finding holes and contradictions and mistakes and wondering how they are not caught! Makes me feel good - all those great writers and editors and agents and publishers are human too, which makes my goal of writing seem attainable all of a sudden (think I am repeating myself - oh well)
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Puna, you've probably heard about the fellow who visited Hawaii and thought 'mahalo' meant 'rubbish' because it was on all the waste receptacles.
T'would be great to meet at a conference. Maybe life will smile on us.
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Kolona - yes, I have and it still makes me laugh. Actually, I'm amazed at the, um, ignorance or just general disinformation or misunderstandings about Hawaii. People still ask if they need a passport, if we use dollars, if there is cable tv and McDonalds, if we use English! Even on 'Millionaire' Regis (through the fault of his undoubtedly overworked writers) announced that Hawaii became a state in 1960 (it was 1959, August, my parents were there) in reponse to someone who had guessed wrongly about the number of stars on the flag in a certain year.
Sometimes I've thought there is a writing piece in that - maybe I'll add it to my goals! And maybe that conference someday...
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