posted
Would it put readers off to have a 13-year-old protagonist who never aged? Said protagonist has to, during the course of the few years that the novel encompasses, bravery, courage, stalwartness(...which, I realize, means the same thing... ...); the entire spectrum of human emotion, basically. Would it seem ridiculous, for example, for such a young character extolling the virtues of true love, opining on the nature of evil, and so on?
I only ask because I'm in the middle of writing a scene where the boy (who looks thirteen but is now fifteen, if it matters) has to handle a group of mercs on his own. He has power that he's quite adept with, having grown up with it, but nonetheless, even I find it a little implausible. This failure to suspend belief, I believe is a failure on my part as a writer.
So...help!
Naturally, any and all help would be appreciated. Just ask, and I'll give you your own paragraph on the dedications page.
I'm only half kidding. Guess which half.
CVG
--"You can't change the world, but you can make a dent." Edward Norton, DEATH TO SMOOCHIE.
--(When asked his opinion on western civilization) "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma(sp?) Ghandi.
"Oh my God, they killed Kenny!" "You bastards!" Stan and Kyle, respectively. SOUTH PARK.
posted
I guess you've already convinced me that it is plausible for all of those things to happen. And there are countless stories where young teens (and younger) do excel and succeed in extraordinary circumstances.
Ender's Game forces us to suspend disbelief that children can act they way they do. Same with the Harry Potter series (but maybe less so).
If you're 15-year old is compelling enough, has strong motivations for fighting a group of mercenaries, than why not? Anything is possible. Right?
posted
Wisdom does not depend on age but experience, if I can paraphrase Kun'Fu Tzu (or Lao Tzu... I can never distinguish between the two). Just look at the "greatest generation" Sixteen-year-old kids lying about their age and joining the army. Fourteen-year-old russian kids fighting in the streets of stalingrad, ten-year old wielding Panzerfaust anti-tank rocket launchers in the streets of Berlin. Look at images of the mideast where ten-twelve year olds are packing AK-47's and know how to shoot them. Twelve-year-olds in LA gangs. Think back on the days when children were down in the coal mines or out in the fields. And of course think back on the horrifying tale of the Children's Crusades.
My point? Children are allowed to be children today because they live sheltered, comfortable lives. They grow up late because they don't have to. I still haven't grown up. At least middle-class and above, although even most poor families take care of their children first. But if you look at those exemples below (and ack, research, oh my god no) you'll find that children are nowhere near as delicate as our society tends to view them. In fact, we shelter them so much that we are blinded to their true potential.
Children are the most versatile, the most resilient people on Earth. They can take a lot, and yes, they can dish out a lot. Cruelty is a part of a child's makeup. But our society views children as underevolved beings that somehow mutate into adults at 18. but realy children are the foundation of what we will be. Their experiences makes them into adults, not their age, and the harder the experience, the faster they become adults.
If your fifteen year old has been through enough s#!t he'll not only be very adult in his world view, he would be more adult than most adults who've led a nice suburbian life and 9-5 jobs.
posted
He ages mentally, if not physically, so by the time he's extolling the virtues of love, and opining on evil, etc, he's reached an age when he knows what he's talking about, he edits, because, as a human, I too make mistakes. I suppose it's the imagery, above all, that gets me, because no matter how old I know he is, he still looks like a 13-year-old.
Also, Ender's Game works because OSC establishes early on that Ender is unique. Ethan, my character, while unique, isn't unique in his uniqueness, if that makes as much sense as I'm hoping it does. He's a regular teenager in a world where some people have these special gifts, only his are a little more special than most. As a regular teen, he's thrust into a conflict that climaxes with his being thrown several thousand years into the past, with no possibility of getting home (he later finds out.) All of this happens before the first page. My point (he writes, after realizing that he's been typing for minutes on end without reaching one, shamelessly plugging his novel, due out April 19th, 2026) is that Ender's Game works because OSC makes you believe Ender is special by showing it early on, in the brutal, yet self defensive beating of the bully who attacks him (and who's name I forgot, to my shame. Barney? Bernie? Benson? Oh well.).
Hm. I guess I just answered my own question. Okay, then.
Still, any more opinions would be welcomed.
CVG
edited to add: Good point, BF. You posted while I over-diligently worked on mine, and thus made my own post obsolete, but still, good points, all. Or, if not obsolete, then you answered the original question. Put Eats (his brother's nickname for him; sometimes I just love writing ) through enough crap, and he'll be able do deal with anything that comes along, including mercs. So...thanks!
[This message has been edited by cvgurau (edited August 15, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by cvgurau (edited August 15, 2004).]
posted
If you ever doubt a kid's ability to deal with really REALLY rough stuff, just spend some time volunteering on a pediatric ward. Words fail me. It floors me every day.
Posts: 1041 | Registered: Aug 2004
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He won't be a regular teen for long, though, as long as he continues to mature mentally and emotionally. His unchanging appearance will have its own effect on his psyche, though, as he finds that it locks him into a role that he may have outgrown mentally and emotionally.
Could be a very fun story to explore and to read! I have no problem with him remaining a set age physically so long as you have him respond appropriately to his mental and emotional maturation.
Take the doubts you are having about his unchanging physical age and give them to him as frustrations over his non-aging appearance. Imagine how YOU would feel now, if you were still physically a 13 y/o, but knowing all that you know now and having experienced all that you have to date.
It would probably have driven me insane by now!! Arrrghhh!! *g*
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I've often wondered/wished I could go back to an earlier time knowing what I know now. I suppose everyone does at some point. But there's been plenty of stories written that covers that... I really don't have to wonder so much what it might be like, thankfully.
Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
It all sounds plausable and would work, except the true love part. I think 15 year olds are capable of love, but the whole true love thing... they're too young.
Posts: 79 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
HSO--I've often wished for the same thing, but with respect, this isn't really that. It'd be cool, though .
Mike--I had it read to me back in the fourth grade, nearly a decade ago (by Mrs. Novak, a teacher so cool I'll remember her forever...which is a bit off topic, I realize). I remember a lot of the story, but don't really recall any of the...uh, insert family name here...agonizing about their immortality. I remember that (Warning. Spoiler) Winnie refused to drink the water, and gave it to a frog instead, but other than that, nothing on it.
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You might want to read it again, CVG. The family hated their immortality.
I have only tried to read one book by Anne Rice and I didn't finish it, so I don't know if this is true; but I heard that in one of her Vampire Lestat books (the one they made into a movie with Tom Cruise, in fact) there is a young girl who was made a vampire and has to live eternity in a prepubescent state--which she supposedly complains about all the time. (I think Kristen Dunst played the part in the movie.)
If his hormones haven't started raging, the 13-year-old body probably won't be a terrible problem for your protagonist. If they have started raging, though, you're going to have a pretty miserable kid on your hands. I'd vote for never starting them, and forgetting about true love, etc.
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Claudia is the child vampire in Anne Rice's Interview with the Vampire. She never ages physically, but ages mentally. A certain portion of the book is about the issues that causes. There is, yes, a certain amount of whining about it.
[This message has been edited by GZ (edited August 15, 2004).]
posted
What do you mean by normal teenager? Because I've seen some teenagers who just don't grow up but there are other who would be able to function in the adult world if given just a few months to adjust to it. I agree with all the others that children are very versatile creatures. I have no problem believing in a thirteen year old protagonist. Especially if he has had a lot of experiences because he wasn't sheltered (for good or ill). As for the true love thing, I think that it's ok if he's talking about that. I don't think children have any problem understanding true love, sometimes I think they get it better than some adults.
While not all children develop this heightened philisophical sense you are talking about I wouldn't think it anywhere out of the ordinary. However, keep in mind that there will still be moments of childishness that seep through. I've read that that is one of the biggest problems for children who are forced to mature extremely fast, they relapse from time to time. (I hope that makes sense, I'm really tired.)
posted
In the August issue of FSF there's a story called "Start the Clock". The premise is that a communicable virus stops everyone from ageing. So the world winds up dividing into communites of people with similar ages. The "Nines" the "Fourteen/Fifteens" the "Geezers" people who are thirty-plus. It's very good, and an interesting look at what would happen if a person was arrested in development for years.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote: I have only tried to read one book by Anne Rice and I didn't finish it...
Thank god. I thought I was the only one.
I tried reading Interview with a Vampire (on request from a friend who raved about it), and I couldn't finish it. Twice. I don't really like abandoning a book, but sometimes, you can't help but put it down.
posted
Ditto CVG. My ex-wife read Anne Rice all the time. I couldn't get past thr first couple of chapters of "Interview" and I usually finish all books I start, even bad ones. I couldn't force myself to read Interview
Posts: 83 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
The main problem with whining in Interview with a Vampire isn't Claudia, its Louis - the Vampire of the title. The film even made a thing of it at the end with Lestat saying:
quote: Oh Louis, Louis. Still whining Louis. Have you heard enough? I've had to listen to that for centuries.
Now Lestat, there's a vampire.
All that said, I didn't read her later books. It all got a bit repetitive.
posted
From what I remember (it's been a while)Anne Rice was just too gothic for my tastes. I mean, I'm not exactly president of the Sunshine Club, but Jesus Christ. If that woman hadn't made it rich putting such thoughts on the page, she probably would have gone insane and taken half a city block with her.
posted
This is entirely personal, but I'd really prefer that you not take the Lord's name in vain around here.
Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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posted
To get a little bit closer to topic, has anyone read The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde?
Dorian lives his entire life more or less as a boy. Not as young as 13 but not much older (17-20ish I think. I don't believe Wilde ever assigned an actual age, but I could be missing something). It's an interesting look at social behaviour with a touch of philosophy.
While Dorian doesn't age physically, he does age mentally at least in some ways. It could be argued that because Dorian isn't forced to take responsibility for his actions, he never really "grows up" (Peter Pan syndrome).
posted
"Ethan, my character, while unique, isn't unique in his uniqueness, if that makes as much sense as I'm hoping it does. He's a regular teenager in a world where some people have these special gifts, only his are a little more special than most."
Ender, OSC's character, while uniqe, isn't unique in his uniqueness, if that makes sense. He's a regular child in a world where all the children have special gifts, only his are a little more special than most.
In fact, Ender even came from a perfectly ordinary middle-class household.
[This message has been edited by Eric Sherman (edited August 17, 2004).]
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...); the entire spectrum of human emotion, basically. Would it seem ridiculous, for example, for such a young character extolling the virtues of true love, opining on the nature of evil, and so on?
) through enough crap, and he'll be able do deal with anything that comes along, including mercs. So...thanks! 
