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Author Topic: Fantasy without magic?
Minister
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I'd like to get some opinions about this. Is it okay to write a "fantasy" story without blatant or frequent reference to magic? I ask, because I've been working on a story that I'd like to set in a world geographically and politically different than earth -- but operating on the same principles we see in nature. I'd rather not use the old "parallel universe" gimic or go through having to explain a space expedition stranded on a planet that has lost all of its advanced technology, etc. (the tech level I'm using is roughly late medieval). Are there people out there interested in, buying, and reading material set on worlds not earth but like it?
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shadowynd
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Just curious: Does the tale have any other classical fantasy elements to it? Will there be any elves, dwarves, dragons, unicorns, etc? Magic wielders? You seem to indicate magic is present, though not commonly seen in the story.

Susan


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Keeley
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The first book that came to mind when I saw your post was Jackaroo by Cynthia Voigt. But it's set very much on earth in the medieval period and reads more like a historical novel than a fantasy (Amazon.com calls it a historical adventure/romance though my library thought otherwise). Also, the Jackaroo is borderline magical. He seems to be everywhere at once. I saw through a lot of the twists but the story is good enough that I didn't care. It was a really good ride.
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wetwilly
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Q: Is it okay to write a story about X?

A: Yes.


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Minister
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Shadowynd: Any classically fantasy elements would be strictly in the background. I suppose that there is no reason why dragons, wizards, and sea serpents cannot exist as part of the setting, but I don't want them to play an integral part in the plot.

Wetwilly (I have wondered the rationale behind that username, but am not sure I want to know) ;-): I'm not looking for permission to write the story; I'm wondering if there are parallel works out there or a market for them I haven't found yet.


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mikemunsil
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Is it "magic" if its not magic to the characters? You could take any number of tales about current life in America, and relate them to a stone-age tribeman elsewhere in the world (if there are any left), and many of the elements would be perceived as magic.

I recently took part in a flash challenge on another writing board (Scrawl) where the majority of the writers are NOT INTERESTED IN FANTASY. But they are interested in writing challenges and they made the mistake of asking me to suggest a topic. So, I gave them my Bridgetown milieu and asked them to write a short story in an hour and a half that honored the milieu and its established characters.

They were amazing. Many of them simply wrote in that mileu and honored the theme and characters, but wrote about dramatic events that could have happened elsewhere. They definitely fit the genre but they had no overt references to magic.

On another note, are you in fact writing magical realism instead of fantasy? There was another thread on the board about taht if you are interested in pursuing that topic.


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Christine
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I can't talk about marketing, but if you have it in your heart...write it! If it's good, people will busy it.
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GavinLoftin
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I agree with Christine. When I'm writing, I don't worry about who my readers are or if there is a market for my story. I write it because it needs to come out.
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GZ
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Why Not? It might read a bit more like alternative historical fiction, but I think many fantasy readers would respond well to that (and do).
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Minister
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Thanks for the input, everybody. Mike, it's actually kind of a quest story. But I got sick of reading quest stories wrapped around magic objects or abilities, in which the plot is manipulated at will by the use of magic phenomenon, so I decided to try telling one that didn't rely on magic as a crutch to prop up the plot. I would set it as historical fiction, but the plot doesn't mesh well with our geography and history. Any further thoughts/suggestions are welcome.
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shadowynd
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If it's good, I'd buy it. I think it's rather a refreshing idea! If you need readers later, please count me in.

Susan


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Michaelpfs
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I agree with most everyone here. If that's the story you have inside, get it out. It's okay to write whatever you want to write.
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Pyre Dynasty
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I don't think Magic is the crutch of fantasy most make it out to be. It's just something you can do in fantasy. The only real requirement for me is that you make it Fantastic. I sometimes write on a serial that's fantasy but there is no magic. And on my current WIP magic has been abandoned. Write your story and then ask it what it is.
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Jules
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Minister: the story I'm going to start writing for NaNo is in a very similar setting to the way you describe yours. It is, however, an important part of my story how this world came to exist (a variation of the stranded colonists idea you mention) because, as the reader will discover towards the end of the story, some of the characters are from Earth and have the use of advanced technology. Most of the population (including all of the characters I intend to use as viewpoint characters) believe these people to be prophets with magical powers granted by the gods.

I consider my story science fiction with an early-mediaeval setting and an epic fantasy theme. I don't think it's particularly important to identify on which side of the distinction between science fiction and fantasy it falls, though. Just call it speculative fiction, send it to publishers who deal with both and see what they think of it.


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bladeofwords
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Yeah.


I mean, go ahead. I like the idea of writing fantasy without magic. Or better yet, fantasy that might have magic. Sometimes there are things that none of the characters truly know or understand and magic would explain (but so would something else).

the only novel that I've actually finished (not including my novel that ended up only being a novella) had this exact sort of world. There was no magic to speak of other than things that could be construed to chance and superstition. I would say it was pretty undeniably fantasy though, especially for me because as the story progresses (past what I wrote that is) it gets even more fantastic. So yeah, I think you can do it.

Mind you, my novel isn't a best-seller or even published so I can't offer any advice on the market, but really, who cares as long as it's interesting.

Jon


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RFLong
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have you read either of the G R R Martin short stories in the Legends collections (there are 2 volumes out now and he's in both). The story in the first was called "The Hedge Knight" I think (I don't have them to hand to check). Both of these are set in a fantasy world (same one as his Song of Ice and Fire novels), but do not contain magical events or use of magic. They are also really good stories. The fantasy element comes from the setting - a created world rather than this one. Magic is part of the belief system, real in their world, but doesn't impact the stories.

While there is definitely magic used in the novels, they don't rely on it - its another facet of the world he has created without being an overriding factor. In fact, while reading the first one I remember thinking "but where's the magic? - this is more like a historical adventure story". (Then I got to the end, before anyone shouts me down!)

So, nothing wrong with fantasy stories not containing magic at all, though Martin is the only one I can think of making use of it.

On an aside, Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels - SF or F? I'm sure this has come up before. Its an SF set up with a Fantastic atmosphere but absolutely no magic. Just a thought.


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yanos
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I can think of a number of books which fit this quite well. Although most of them do tend to head towards the old slash and hack or post apocolyptic types. Battle Circle by Piers Anthony might be worth a look.

Alternatively look at George R Martin's series which has very little magic. Though the political setup there is based on medieval times.

But I guess what I really want to say is that, yes there are books out there with little magic, and yes they do sell. The important thing is the characters and the plot.


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djvdakota
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An Minister, you're not the only one out there writing such stories--me, for instance. So if we're writing them, others will be ineterested in reading them, and still others interested in publishing them...we hope.
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hoptoad
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I agree with Mike.

Isn't magic more about world-view than world?

The "You see what you look for" effect .

I mean if people believe in magic, everything they see and hear and experience will confirm its existence to them.

If they believe in something else then they will find something in the 'event' that works to affirm their particular worldview. Be it science, religion, magic, spirits, chaos, the grand-master-scrabble-champion-in-the-sky or whatever.

We have, as humans, a tendency to want to connect the dots, some use a pencil, others a crayon. Whatever the medium, isn't the act designed to bring order to an otherwise apparently disordered universe? Consider the attribution of images to random stars, calling them 'constellations' and dubbing them 'the big dipper' or 'scorpio'. Or those bible code books -- random occurences of letters etcetera, imbued with meaning not by the writer but by the reader.

I don't care if there is any 'real' magic in your world, I only care if the characters believe there is. That is what you need to decide. Let me in on their world-view and hang the rest of it.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 01, 2004).]


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hoptoad
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Come on people what is this 'if it's in your heart stuff?'

Go ahead and write whatever you want but fantasy is by definition characterised by highly fanciful or supernatural elements.

Without those elements it is not really fantasy.

In other words, without the supernatural, you had better make the milieu strong enough to take up the slack.

Otherwise it is like wanting to skip the science in science fiction.

Maybe we could call it 'soft-fantasy'?

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 01, 2004).]


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Magic Beans
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A story about something that did not ever happen might have fantastic elements in it, and if those elements are strong enough (and the plot fails without them) some might call it fantasy outright. A story about something that could not ever happen would always fit under speculative fiction, if not be called fantasy. The fantastic in a story isn't the same as having magic in a story. One could have creatures or customs or anachronistic & incongruent technologies that never did and do not now exist in our world.

In straight-up swords & sorcery fantasy, magic is more like physics. Magical physics, if you will. It is a demonstrable, empirical force, that in our world would be called supernatural or miraculous. And in the terms of the story, it has nothing to do with the beliefs of the characters (unless that is part of the story). No way does a story need this magical physics to be a fantasy. There's room in the genre ghetto for everyone. The 'hoods aren't divided by high walls, they just blend into each other.


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hoptoad
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Magics Beans, I agree with your definition of speculative fiction and that fantasy is a smaller part within that larger picture.

But I also believe that fantasy should be fantastic.

The word fantasy comes from Greek 'phantasi' which means "appearance" or "what is visible or apparent" and could be applied to the imagination, as in "a vision".

So at its heart, fantasy is about the way things 'appear' to be. That may apply to the writer or the reader, but shouldn't it also apply to the character?

One example is Megan Lindholme's "Wizard of the Pigeons".

If the character's world-view does not 'at some point' incorprorate supernatural or fanciful elements you had better make the milieu fantastic enough to take up the slack. Otherwise call it speculative fiction as Magic Beans suggests, but not fantasy.

I'm not suggesting whacking an extra orc or elf in the mix for flavour. But the setting should serve to propel the story. It should not be incidental to it like: oh, and by the way they live in a castle.

I guess I am talking about applying a little rigour to the process of story creation.

Shouldn't the character begin to see and believe the 'fantasy' or interact with the supernatural or fantastic nature of the world they are passing through simply as part of the plot? They may deny what they are seeing or experiencing, but it must certainly 'appear' to be some way to them OR to the reader.

I never said that a story needs to contain magic in order to be a fantasy. But I do assert that a fantasy should be fantastic and have a reason to be so.

If you bristle against organising fiction into categories, why wouldn't you call ALL fiction fantasy or speculation and be done with it?

I know people who do.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 01, 2004).]


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yanos
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coughs in shame~

Well to be honest when I first read the definition for spec fiction, I thought, "Wow, that includes all fiction."

Now many months later, I am of the opinion, "Wow, that includes all fiction, unless someone finds a convenient more sellable label." Ah the joys in labels.

Basically though, I do agree that the world you create should support your premise. Other than that, let the story decide...


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cicerocat
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I prefer some sort of paranormal or supernatural in fantasy. However, magic is not a requisite for me. Not to long ago, I read a great fantasy trilogy (The Scavenger Trilogy by K.J. Parker) that didn't have magic in it. It was about the first time I've read and enjoyed a non-magical fantasy novel.

Cya,
CC


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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What are the book titles in the Scavenger trilogy, Cicerocat?
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hoptoad
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Scavenger trilogy titles:

Shadow
Pattern
Memory

The blurb says it's an intriguing tale of magic, manipulation and revenge. But maybe the magic is not overt, or is easily missed.

BTW the cover Art is fantastic, especially Pattern with the crows and the face.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 03, 2004).]


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Thank you, Cicerocat.
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Whitney
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Going back the orginial question, it seems to me that what Minister is asking is what may not necessarily fall into the category of "fantasy", maybe more like alternate reality. Sort of like Anne McCaffery's Pern novels before you found out that the people were transplants from Earth. I think the main reason she was categorized as fantasy with that series had more to do with creatures they had named "dragons". Publishing houses don't make a distinction, it seems, for a planet's natural (well, sort of) fauna and the magical creature it was named for. Her dragons didn't have any magic, just biology.

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shadowynd
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I would argue that she did indeed give her dragons magic or magic-like powers. The dragons were able to lift any amount of weight whatsoever, as long as they *thought* they could do it. They were able to transport themselves and their riders great distances almost instantly by going "between", rather like going through a wormhole. They could even travel through time the same way.

And what again about their biology makes this possible? Sure seems like magic to me!

Susan


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Robyn_Hood
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I guess it comes down to what is considered magic. If those are things that dragons do, then in that melieu it isn't necessarily magic. Even if it is magic, or at least supernatural, it may not be overt (I haven't read those particular books, so I may be off a bit. Forgive me if I am.).

Minister, I don't think it has to be blatant. I've been working on a story for the last several years that I would consider sci-fi. However, the only real sci-fi thing about it, is that it is set in the future and some of the main characters ride around in space ships and are technologically advanced. The bulk of the story (16 or so chapters out of 20) is more of a medieval action/adventure story.

quote:
Are there people out there interested in, buying, and reading material set on worlds not earth but like it?

I'm not a huge fan of mystic, magical fantasy, so it sounds like a story that would appeal to me .

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Magic Beans
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There is almost never any scientific explanation given why fantasy worlds are so much like Earth except in geography, nor is any needed. It's a given of the genre.
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cicerocat
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Hi, sorry for the delayed response. Thanks hoptoad for posting those titles.

quote:
The blurb says it's an intriguing tale of magic, manipulation and revenge. But maybe the magic is not overt, or is easily missed.

I hope I'm not laying out too many spoilers for people. But in case I am, I'll leave a few extra spaces.

S
p
o
i
l
e
r
s

(since it doesn't like just a lot of extra return strokes)


But I don't recall magic in there. I don't count deity related things or special but natural abilities of a race of people as magic. There may be some borderline instances in there of magic, but I didn't really see it as so. Hope that helps.

Cya,
CC

[This message has been edited by cicerocat (edited November 07, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by cicerocat (edited November 07, 2004).]


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hoptoad
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I guess this is what I mean, don't care whether it is 'really truly magic' or not. Its what the character thinks it is that counts...

What does the character think is happening?
What are the rules of your world?


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Minister
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Frankly, the only problem I have with setting the story on earth is that the geography and politics just don't work in any time period I can figure out. I need a large scale on which to work, too large to place in an out of the way corner of geography or history. I don't have any problem with the world possessing exactly the same flora, fauna, natives, and laws of nature that earth operates under. I can invent religions, animals, etc., if necessary, but I don't see the point in it if it's not necessary.

Since medieval individuals often apparently perceived our world as containing things like magic, dragons, sea serpents and the like, I have no problem with some of the characters in the story believing that these things belong in the world. But I don't want those things to be central to the story. I want the draw of the story to be the plot and characters, not a fantastic setting. Thus, as the story stands, it is effectively set on earth, but with different geography, politics, cultures, etc. Again, if need be, I can add in elements of the fantastic, but I'd rather not if it's not necessary.


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Magic Beans
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I think we could, after having discussed this at some length, all agree that Minister's story idea would be classified for publishing and stocking purposes as fantasy. The one impossibility or fantastical element of your story is that the earth-like geography never existed in actual history and the characters of your story never existed in actual history, right? That would put it quite squarely in the realm of the fantastic, because it never happened and it's not related to historical locations or persons we know of.

So, even if no dragons appear, even if everyone is perfectly, normally human, and even if no spells are cast that have an empirically measurable effect, it'd still be classified as a fantasy. And I'm sure that if it's a great story, people will love it.

If you need to write it, then write it!

[This message has been edited by Magic Beans (edited November 07, 2004).]


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Jules
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quote:
What does the character think is happening?

Which raises an interesting question about my story: what if what the character thinks is happening starts out as "magic" but he learns half way through the story that its "technology", along with an understanding of what that means. How much, in fact, could that mean to him? Can someone who has been brought up believing in magic truly come to understand what modern technology is, where the distinction between the two lies?


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Magic Beans
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That's a great question, Jules. I have wondered about that myself. Any sufficiently advanced technology would appear to be magic. I had tried to come up with an inverse statement: Any real magic is an immeasurable technology. I had tried to bring those ideas together in a story where the inhabitants of the earth lived in a fantasy world with strange creatures and even some unusual powers. What they come to find out is that they are the products of nanotechnology and genetic engineering of the most advanced degree. They and their world is entirely engineered for the pleasure of their creators, a race of supermodified immortal humans I was going to call Guardians or even Gardeners.

I realized that what I really wanted to write was the fantasy story, and also realized that what I really wanted to write wasn't sf at all, but fantasy. So many of those creatures are now in my current fantasy WIP.

When I was working on the story in its original form, I had the idea that when it was published the cover would have the same look and feel as a fantasy novel. When you read it, you wouldn't know it wasn't high fantasy until much later in the story, then the shocking truth is revealed!


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Survivor
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We call medicine "science", but most of us treat it like magic (including most doctors...the rest tend to treat it as a religion).

The same is at least partially true of most of the modern technology we use on an everyday basis. For the vast majority of people, technology is handled "ritualistically" rather than "technologically". That is to say, most people use advanced technology by rote rather than through an understanding of the underlying principles on which it is based.

So I think that while some people coming out of a "magical" culture could be taught to understand advanced technology for what it is, it would probably be no greater a percentage than understand advanced technology after having been raised within the framework of a technological culture.

That is the practical distinction between "magic" and "technology", not only knowing what works, but why it works.

There is, naturally, another important distinction between magic and technology (all the more so since it is this distinction which lead to the rise of technology as the dominant force in modern culture).

In a simplified theological sense, magic costs you your soul, and technology doesn't. Of course we could argue back and forth about various quibbles of which one actually costs you your soul, but the idea that magic was "evil" and technology was "okay" is something that even the most superstitious peasent out of the Dark Ages could grasp (if he wanted to avoid being burned for witchcraft, at any rate).

I regard this as a special case that doesn't have anything to do with the fundamental difference between magic and technology, but it is an important special case because it illuminates the mystery of how technology ever developed. In fact, most people still tend to think of the "magic v. technology" question in terms that echo this old theological division. "Magic" is some special force associated with spirits and other supernatural entities which is "outside" the bounds of "technology".

Since I don't see any particular reason that using technology rather than magic to accomplish something would be particularly damning, I don't subscribe to the idea that there couldn't be a technology of using supernatural forces in some manner proscribed by religion. And, as I mentioned above, there are those that turn the equation on its head and assert that technology is "evil" and magic is "okay".

But it is just as easy to discount my distinction as the special case and hold to the other as the true distinction. After all, a great many more people believe in the latter than the former.


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Magic Beans
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Excellent points, Survivor. As people who are cultural products of the Christian viewpoint (whether we ourelves are Christians or not), we still operate under the notion that any magic must come from the devil or is evil, since it didn't come from God (then it would be a miracle). It's interesting that we live in a time where biotechnology/genetics has now reached the point where some religious people brand it ungodly or heretical or against religious precept. Thou shalt not suffer a Life Scientist to live...

Magic (as religion often is) is elitest and technology is democratic. Only the few wizards (priests) have magical powers, the rest of you don't. But anyone who can work a tool can make incremental improvements in the implements used in daily life.

You could say that in a fantasy world, magic is no more supernatural than rain or earthquakes. It would be part of that world's natural law. Magical Physics. Then you have to figure out who or what has the ability or knowledge to work with the physics, and how they came by that ability or knowledge.

[This message has been edited by Magic Beans (edited November 10, 2004).]


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yanos
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I seem to remember that the Catholic church has been pretty much against most new scientific and technological developments in the past, and only in the last 50 years has it embraced technology and all its little gremlins.

Asian culture seems to promote a more balanced view of magic, though they are very superstitious...


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Magic Beans
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Asiatic cultures aren't evolved from a dualistic Christian background or any "revealed" exclusive (and I mean that in the original, negative sense) religion.

Nothing against what you said, Yanos, but I think that often what looks like superstition to westerners are rituals or concepts that are suffused with multilayered meanings and resonances--very poetic. One might say almost magical. To early westerners, this was viewed as quaint, savage paganism (e.g. The Last Samurai). Current westerners tend to see it as anachronistic in the least, still mistaking it as something primitive. I think that's highly unfortunate, because if our own culture had evolved that way, we would be the richer for it. We in the west don't seem to have any kind of "everyday magic."

One of the things that actually don't like about the Potter books is that there's too much magic, as if the hundreds of volts of electricity used by Muggles were simply replaced with an equal amount of mundane magic for the wizarding world. This is totally a personal thing, but I like my magic rare and even a little frightening. It's not for washing dishes, in other words! I know this sounds like I just contradicted myself, but I know myself to be a product of Western civilization: there will always be that sense that magic is a little forbidden, is hidden knowledge.

[This message has been edited by Magic Beans (edited November 10, 2004).]


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Survivor
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The point isn't that Christianity hasn't suppressed specific technologies that were percieved as potentially threatening, the point is that only the universal condemnation of all magic allowed technology to supercede magic.

This process never happened in Asia, which is why Asian cultures were never able to capitalize on their enormous advantages in applied sciences during all the millenia they were world leaders in every concivable field.

As a side point, the confabulation of Christianity with the Catholic Church is very common, but I would hope for better from anyone actually interested in a medieval setting. The tension between Rome and Christians was one of the defining conflicts of that entire era, and lends it much of its interest as a subject for fiction.

I should also stress that it is only in the eyes of the superstitious that the main distinction between magic and technology is which is "evil" and which isn't. Which you brand as "evil" doesn't really matter, what matters is that you distinguish them on that basis. While the pressure on European technologists to clearly explain the workings of their technology in order to demonstrate its non-demonic origin was a proven bootstrap to having technology win out over magic, it is at least concievable that a systematic suppression of anything that relied on non-miraculous means would enable technology to become distinct from magic and thus eventually win out (just how this would happen is a matter of speculation).

In any case, without a major cultural impetus to distinguish magic from technology, the vast majority of humans can't or won't distinguish between the two. One major problem with modern science is that most scientists can no longer tell dogma from science. And non-scientists aren't any better off (except for the fact that they don't under as great a delusion for the most part).

I think that one interesting point made by MB is the elitism of magic and the democratism of technology. I use the term "democratism" because superstitious thinking will always be in the majority. But the technological viewpoint does tend to be characterized by a wish to disseminate knowledge throughout society, even though most individuals won't really understand it. Superstition, on the other hand, tends to want to concentrate knowledge in an elite cast. The odd thing is that the majority of superstitious people don't really want to be in that elite, I have no understanding of why this is the case, but it is.


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Minister
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Great discussion here. I particularly appreciated some of your points, Survivor. A pernicious frustration to me has been the widespread assumption that Romanism is a one to one equivalent to Christianity in general. I've debated writing some historical novels set in the middle ages centered on the tension that you described. Have you published essays on this subject matter? If not, perhaps you should consider doing so.
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hoptoad
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Fantastic reference book listed below on the subject of the last couple of posts. it is an insight into the dominant mindset of period 1280's (?). It is written by a monk caught-up in events that culminated in the Albigensian Crusade, undertaken at the behest of Rome, against a christian group in Southern France.

I particularly like the descriptions of the actions of the camp followers out to make a quid.


History of the Albigensian Crusade.
Pierre des Vaux-de-Cernay
(Translated. W.A. and M.D. Sibly. Boydell, 1998.)

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited November 10, 2004).]


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Survivor
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Man, let's not get into the whole "Whore of Babylon" thing Soldiers are men, after all, and even our own noble troops have been known to behave like boys. Still, a worthwhile bit of history to look at there.

I don't think I've published anything interesting about the religious diversity of the Middle Ages. For the most part I've been content to read what others have written on the subject. That material is out there, and anyone considering a setting based on Medieval Europe should look it over. Period documents and contemporary accounts are great, of course, so much more flavorful than the dry voices of academia


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Magic Beans
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quote:
This process never happened in Asia, which is why Asian cultures were never able to capitalize on their enormous advantages in applied sciences during all the millenia they were world leaders in every concivable field.

Yeah, there's some crazy stuff from that, too, like the world's first clock way before anyone else had it--but it was toy for the Chinese emperor. They didn't do anything with it. Still, it's this paradigm moreso than the western one that offers great ideas for fantasy stories. This is your oddball wizard doing crazy stuff without regard to the rest of the world. Funny that we want this less dogmatic and religious viewpoint for fantasy stories whose settings are often ripped from the western medieval period.

Here's an old thread from before I came on board here, that touches on this topic:
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000951.html

[This message has been edited by Magic Beans (edited November 11, 2004).]


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TechGnome
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I think Survivor hit it the proverbial nail on the head with "That is the practical distinction between "magic" and "technology", not only knowing what works, but why it works." -- In the book, "The Wizard's First Rule" by Terry Goodkind, one of the main characters noted that "It's only magic if you don't know how it's done." Which, if you think about it, is true. Even in traditional magicians, such as David Blane or David Copperfield, or Sigfried & Roy, you don't know how it's done, so it is magic to you. Same concept applies to SF or F.

It's the same concept I've been using in what I've been writing. It's a fantasy setting, but a fabled object is in fact something from 20th Century Earth. Since the people of this planet don't have the same technological capabilities we have, to them it's magic.

My $0.02.... you may refund any change you wish.

TG


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Survivor
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MB uncovers the font of all evil...destruction is nigh!
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Magic Beans
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LOL. Actually, Comic Sans MS is the "font" of all evil.
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Survivor
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You know, I would find that statement less puzzling if there were anything particularly evil about Comic Sans MS.

Or am I missing something?


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