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Author Topic: Becoming too picky a reader
TheoPhileo
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The more I learn about writing, the more picky I find myself when it comes to reading books. I recently picked up Gods & Generals by Jeff Shaara, and certain style quirks of his drive me nuts, cause me to mutter curses, wonder why he keeps doing that, put the book down for five minutes to cool off. (If the structure of that last sentence annoys you, especially if you were to encounter that exact structure five times to a page, then, maybe I'm not alone in this). Not to mention directly narrated thought (combine *that* within the above structure... ick), and several other things I could rant on about.

So my question is this: am I just becoming an elitist snob? Is that normal? I know books like The Da Vinci Code break real rules, but these seem simply to be style issues which I disagree with, not necessarily "rules."


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mikemunsil
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quote:
So my question is this: am I just becoming an elitist snob? Is that normal? I know books like The Da Vinci Code break real rules, but these seem simply to be style issues which I disagree with, not necessarily "rules."

No, you're becoming a writer. A better one, that is. You've developed the critical mind.

The only real rule of writing is to communicate (as in to achieve the willing suspension of disbelief) with the reader. The craft of writing includes 'rules' that help you to do so. If you can communicate with the reader you can break any rule you care to. Most of us can't (yet) communicate that well, so we follow the 'rules'.


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Ergoface
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One of the biggest reasons I put off trying to write was because I greatly feared losing all enjoyment from reading by becoming too critical. Now I have found that I was partly justified in my fear. I used to be able to read almost any SF and enjoy it, even if it was badly written. Now with my writer's hat on I find I can't help but be more critical.

The one real benefit is that now I am even more in awe of certain authors who write so well it makes me dispair ever being that good.

I'm still not sure if the tradeoff has been worth it, but now it's too late.


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ChrisOwens
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My wife is trying to get me to read the Lemony Snicket books. It's kind of a drag.
Maybe it has nothing to do with having writing as a hobby.

Of course compare to the Runelord series, everything else is looking mighty dull... if I can only find the Lair of Bones somewhere... no bookstore seems to have it...


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J
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The thread is well-named. The danger to us doesn't lie in becoming critical of all the writing we read; it lies in becoming picky, which is something else entirely.

It's human nature at work, essentially. We spend a large amount of time reading and writing and thinking about writing and talking about writing and writing about writing. As we become more adept at the craft, we have more and more trouble distinguishing between rational criticism and personal preference--that is, we become more prone to clothe our unfounded opinions in the garb of whatever expertise we may have obtained.

The effect when we read is profound. We attribute poor writing both to writing that is actually poor and to writing that doesn't suit our own preferences. This is the essence of being 'picky.' For examples, read any thread in the F&F section.

That being said, I think the tradeoff is worthwhile. A little self-awareness and humility, besides being generally healthy, go a long way to curing pickiness. And balanced against the pitfall of pickiness is the benefit of critical reading. We can all agree that critical reading skills are a priceless gift.

Edited to add that the Runelord series is a highly original and entertaining story, but is very poorly written--and that ain't being picky.

[This message has been edited by J (edited December 02, 2004).]


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ChrisOwens
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J: <Edited to add that the Runelord series is a highly original and entertaining story, but is very poorly written--and that ain't being picky.>

Maybe with enough effort, I can learn to write as poorly. If Runelords is poor writing, I don't won't to be right.

Of course, when I read it, I can't see the writing, because I am experiencing it. I did catch two typos.


[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited December 02, 2004).]


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Rahl22
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I'm not like this. I have more appreciation for really well written things. For example, if a chapter ends with a whopper of a sentence, I may stare off and really let it sink in.

Sentences I don't like, I usually just note but move on.


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dpatridge
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actually, reading has made me far more picky than i would believe writing ever will...

i won't even TOUCH Harry Potter, i was forced to read an excerpt of it once, and was profoundly struck at how unprofound the writing was, and i do not like the unprofound.

my reading material grew from mainstream contemporary to mainstream mystery to the speculative in a matter of just two or three years, and since then, within the speculative, i've moved on to deeper and deeper writing. has anyone read Crown of Stars? i'm certain most of us here have read Dune and Foundation. those are all three examples of the kind of writing i'm quickly growing to expect, and i won't accept anything less...

the above transformation, i believe, is entirely based on reading experience, not on writing experience


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ChrisOwens
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<i'm certain most of us here have read Dune and Foundation. those are all three examples of the kind of writing i'm quickly growing to expect, and i won't accept anything less...>

Then don't read the Dune Prequals...
They weren't bad in a sort of action kind of way, but I'm sure it made Frank Herbert turn over in his grave.


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dpatridge
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actually Chris, i have read the Dune prequels... and they are a bit disappointing, but then, they were written well enough that i managed to read them anyways.

actually, there are two series that people here repeatedly flame for being too derivative which i actually rather enjoy. i find that Wheel of Time and Sword of Shannara are actually rather intriguing, definitely not on par with Crown of Stars (i'm using that as my example because it is a highly original and extremely deep fantasy novel, rather than sci-fi), but not nearly so bad as many people seem to think it is

as long as a story is passably intriguing, no matter the originality, i enjoy it, but the moreso for those wonderful ones that only seem to come once every generation of authors

the problem i have with Harry Potter is not one of being too action-oriented, but rather one of a lack of an "interesting" factor... it's as though the author used a formulaic approach


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Survivor
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They make pretty good movies, though.

Really, I've always been a somewhat picky reader. I've never felt the awe that a reader is supposed to feel for writers, so I always found myself spotting examples of poor writing, stupid concepts, bad structure, melodramatics and placeholders, and all that stuff.

Becoming a writer has made me better at seeing past these various flaws, and has improved the degree to which I enjoy reading, so it's a win-win situation for me. It also gives me an alternative to reading something subpar, I can go and write something.


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Balthasar
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Let me take this discussion in a slightly different way.

Beginning writers tend to go through phases of extreme rigidity when it comes to the so-called "rules of writing" or the "rules of fiction." You might have an idea of what consitutes good description, or good dialogue, and when a writer goes against our own notions of how these things ought to be, we cringe.

Sometimes this rigidity is on a more abstact level. We might have an excessive rigidity to some notion about POV. Or about how a story should be structured. Or some other rule of technique.

This very thing happened to me. The more I read, the more I wrote, the more I studied fiction, the more I developed some ideas of what good fiction is. Ideas of description and character. But as I kept reading, writing, and studying, I started seeing other possibilities. This doesn't mean that I LIKE these possibilities--we are what we are, even as writers, and we can't do much about it--but I'm no longer throwing out anathamas.


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Silver3
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The only thing that's suffered in my reading is bad stories - I mean really bad, cringe-inducing ones. I can't finish them. And you know what? Actually there aren't so many of those around compared to the number of good or medium-quality books, so I can still read to my heart's content.

[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited December 03, 2004).]


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Jules
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There was one novel I read recently where I got to the end and realised that despite the fact that it had told the complete story of a war in which millions of people had died, nothing had actually happened. The main characters were largely unaffected by what had gone on around them. They escaped by a trivially easy route as soon as their boss showed up and ordered them out, and then sat back and watched the destruction from afar.

I don't know if I'd have been quite so dissatisfied if I couldn't have looked at the story and seen what was wrong with it -- that, essentially, the presence of the main characters had no effect whatsoever and they might as well have spent their time on holiday reminiscing about the past. That the ending was, while a logical conclusion, just not satisfying. "Oh, we've failed to prevent the war, which is what we came to do in the first place. Let's get out of here before the natives blow each other up and take us out with them. How are we going to do that? Oh, yes, we have teleport devices that can take us instantaneously back to Earth."


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Lord Darkstorm
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Since I've started writing, I've only experienced one book that I though could have used a serious slashing...pandora's star. I fought through two chapters of incredibly dull drivel on an alien race which was out right boring. It wasn't the concept that was boring, it was the dedicated two chapters of pure descriptive drone. The rest of the book was an overkill of too many characters that never quite came together. The ultimate was the cliff hanger at the end. That is a prime example of why authors should learn to trim the fat.

But I also have had to learn that my style isn't the only style. Some writers are sparce, while others are highly descriptive. If written well, I can deal with both. One of the things I have found helpful is the different writing books I read. After many different examples that explain various ways to accomplish writing a story, I understand that true enjoyment comes from knowing there is no set way to write.

I find that when I critique someone elses work, I am more observant of what I would concider a mistake. This is more because I am reading the story looking for what could be improved, over just reading the story. When reading a book, no one really is concerned with my opinion of how well it was written. If I don't like it, it is doubtfull I will buy more of that author's books. So for me, I look at the two in different ways. A book only requires me to read it, while reading for a critique requires a response. Of course, switching modes is something I have to do while developing software. Databases are delt with differently than the language used to write the software. Never though that those learning patterns would be usefull elsewhere.

Any story that grabs me, and pulls me in can get away with more mistakes than one that does not. Why care about the details when the story does it's job, entertains?


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franc li
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I'd have to say I don't think Harry Potter books make very good movies. I have watched them without having read the books and I always feel like I'm missing out on something that would make me care about what was going on if I had read the books. #3 was slightly less so, but still had it. Though Alexander Dane rocks my world. I forgot his real name.

I've learned to cook quite a bit. Things I cook really well, I suppose I can say I've gotten more picky about. But there are certain junk food aromas that I crave nonetheless. The just the frosting from a Hostess cupcake. Or a Big Mac. I like knowing Charlie can identify my by my Big Mac stench a mile away.

But I was always a picky reader, now that I think about it.


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wetwilly
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I'm not sure Charlie is looking for you anymore.
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hoptoad
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I think it is sad when the spark is squashed out of someone's writing because they read too many books like The First Five Pages.

One or two is okay, but reading numberless How To Write guides tends to produce readers who don't read and writers that don't write.

Paralysis by analysis.


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