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Author Topic: The state of literature
reid
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Here's an interesting report on reading trends in the US from the NEA. The report was published in June of this year, but the data spans 1982 to 2002.

http://www.arts.gov/pub/ReadingAtRisk.pdf

-Women read more than men.

-Reading is on the decline.

-Writers are increasing in number.

-Reading rates increase with education level, income.

-The percentage of young readers (18-24) is declining at a much faster rate than any other demographic.

Brian

[This message has been edited by reid (edited December 03, 2004).]


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ChrisOwens
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That sounds depressing.
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franc li
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Eh, I can't even be troubled to read the report. They should have titled it Harry Potter and the spectre of illiteracy, then people would read it.

I think illiteracy, or lack of reading, is something we should always be concerned about. I would assume they are not counting reading people are doing on the internet.

Also, isn't increase of writers a good thing as far as the whole literary question goes?


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J
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The increase in writers could be a good thing or a bad thing. It could be good in that more writers = more literature to be read, or bad in that a greater proportion of writers to readers = reading as a more 'specialized' hobby.

Think medieval period--all readers were also writers, because the art of reading was so specialized.

In the age of modern literacy, the act of reading is common. But the art and practice of reading may be becoming more specialized.

[This message has been edited by J (edited December 03, 2004).]


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Keeley
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Or this could just be a statistical blip related to the popularity of sight reading for a time in our nation's schools. Phonics is taking hold again (from what I understand) and the last study I looked at showed a correlation between the level of literacy and the popularity of phonics as a method of teaching reading using the graduates that are in the year range you've mentioned.

Of course, this is all based on memory.

Another thing to remember is that 34.5% of all statistics are made up.


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Christine
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Actually, Keeley, it's closer to 93.5% of all statistics are made up.

But seriously, you are dead on about phonics. Every so often the education field cycles and decides phonics isn't good enough and tries dumb ass (sorry, there's no better way to put it) techniques such as whole learning and the like. Sometimes they want kids to "think" and learn to use "reasoning skills" and so if they spell it kat then that's ok because they're trying to sound it out. Ugh!

Anyway, I did phonics and if in a few years when I have school age kids I see them cycling to one of those other approaches I'm going to have to teach them to read myself.


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Phanto
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Come on. Phonics is a great approach, but to work best, I hold that it should also use some aspects of whole word reading.

Why?

Because when I see a word or phrase, I do not need to vocalize it. The unit as a whole is already in my mind, and recalling it requires just a few prompts.


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Christine
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Phanto, I believe that youa re misunderstanding the difference between phonics and whole learning. It has nothing to do with learning to recognize a whole word because ultimately both approaches propose to get you there. Of course we don't still have to sound at words decades after kindergarten. Phonics basically starts at the beginning, getting young children to learn the English language from its smallest parts (phonetics) and working up. Ultimately, they will learn to recognize words in their entirety and not by sounding them out, but it's a sort of first thing's first approach. You don't just look at a work and know what it says when you're four. That happens through reptition, and a lot of it.

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited December 03, 2004).]


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J
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Agree w/ Christine

"The roots of education are bitter, but the fruits are sweet."

--Aristotle


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djvdakota
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OK, here's a challenge--and an investment in all our futures:

Someone needs to write phonics readers that are actually fun and interesting to read!

Some of the best I'm using for my kindergartner (I'm homeschooling) are make-yourself books that SHE gets to illustrate after she reads what's on the page. She LOVES those.


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Minister
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Check in with A Beka Books in Pensacola, FL, Dakota. I was homeschooled using largely their program, and eventually ended up working for them in their video school program. They are, last I heard, the largest publisher of Christian homeschooling material. Most people don't know about them, though, because they don't sell through many major retailors. They are phonics based, traditionally inclined, tend to be interesting, and the artwork is superb. (I would sneak in as a kid and find the literature books for the next couple of grades and read them for fun.)
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Survivor
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The best approaches start with "whole word"-ish methods for a basic vocabulary of words (like less than fifty) including simple representatives of all the letters of the alphabet. You then teach kids the logic behind the writing system, in the case of our own writing system, that logic is phonetic. With an understanding of the logic behind the writing system, kids can read independently without needing a fully literate adult with them 100% of the time. Eventually their reading skills develop to the point where they recognize a large vocabulary of words without needing to vocalize them anymore, and eventually that "visual" vocabulary of words will match or exceed their "vocal" vocabulary.

As I understand it, this is essentially the basic description of most "phonics" programs, learning only a few words and representatives of the alphabet by rote, then learning by reading age appropriate material using the basic logic of our writing system, till literacy is achieved.

Dr. Suess and similar books that feature strong, simple rhymes with fun meaning associations are highly recommended for early readers, even though some educators have criticized them for their lack of emphasis on simple grammer and so forth.


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Pyre Dynasty
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So basically we need to get the right books in the kid's hands. And we can't forsake the adults compleatly either.
I think some people don't like books because they think the books think they are better than them. Which is crazy, for some reason.
My solution...teach everyone you know how to read. By that I mean teach them how to enjoy reading. Not just for our job security, but for their sake aswell.

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rickfisher
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Phonics is great--I fully recommend it--but it can't be the only approach. The major problem with our educational system is that it swings back and forth, always going whole-hog, instead of recognizing that a combination usually works best.

The main problem with phonics is that the least phonetic group of words in English is the one containing all the simple words that kindergarten kids already know. Words like "was," "once," "the," "two" and so forth. If you try to use phonics for these words, you wind up confusing the kids enough that they may never understand phonics. And then they'll never get to the point where they can read those words that they haven't seen before.

Phonics needs to be the mainstay--but let's not use it where it doesn't fit.


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Jeraliey
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This is why, for all it's faults, I adore the Harry Potter series. I'm teaching fifth grade right now, and I've tutored reading at an elementary level for a long time. I've found that getting kids to read is almost always like pulling teeth. Getting kids to read on their own for fun is like getting all your socks back from the laundry.

However, I was at a fencing tournament the day after Rowling's fifth book came out. I was walking around the gym, when I realized that everyone there under the age of fifteen (all the way down to a four-year-old reading with his big brother) had these enormous blue tomes open on their laps. It was not a small tournament, either. There were at least fifty copies of that book in that gym, all in the hands of kids. If not more.

It was one of the most inspiring things I've ever seen.


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autumnmuse
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Speaking as the oldest of eight children (my youngest brother just turned nine), whose parents love reading, I have to report on how hard it is to get even them to enjoy reading. To this day, the youngest four children still only read because my parents and their teachers make them. This is including really fun books, like HP or the Narnia Chronicles, or Lemony Snicket. The older ones will read some stuff, but only if I recommend it to them. When I was a kid, I'd get everyone interested in a book by reading out loud the first few chapters, until they were hooked, then handing them the book to finish on their own. I have always been a voracious bookworm, and still read almost 200 books a year. In my family, reading has always been emphasized and my parents really made it fun, yet still, out of eight children, only myself actually truly enjoys reading for pleasure. How depressing.

The worst thing I've heard lately as a teaching method for reading was something my friend's daughter is actually being taught in our public schools (I'm a proponent of home schooling for any situation where it is feasible, by the way): she has to look in a mirror while saying words (instead of looking at the word on the page), and she isn't learning actual letters or the words themselves; instead she is learning to memorize colored blocks, where the colors stand for different letters.

I was appalled. The poor girl! Somebody probably got their doctorate from coming up with that convoluted process, but I fail to see how it can help anyone.

[This message has been edited by autumnmuse (edited December 04, 2004).]


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Christine
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I think it's great that kids love Harry potter (and frankly, so do adults...I'm already on a list for amazon.com to give me a heads up when the sixth book's release date is announced), but there needs to be more. That can't be the only thing kids are willing to read otherwise it's not really reading, it's making an exception.
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djvdakota
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Actually, rickfisher, the greatest problem with our educational system is that the powers that be seek THE perfect system that will fit EVERY child. Since there is not such thing, they flip and flop back and forth instead of pulling their heads out of their...nether regions...and train teachers to teach to individuals AND segregate (GASP) the children by learning method--the tactile learners together, the visual learners together, and so on.
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rickfisher
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Yeah, I should have said ONE of the greatest problems. There are bunches. And another one related to reading is that they're starting too early, pushing it on the kids that just aren't ready and making them hate it for life. I've got nothing against teaching kids to read as early as they can manage it--but it should be an opportunity for those who can, not a requirement.

The other thing relates to reading aloud, as autumnmuse pointed out. My son has always loved stories--but he didn't like reading. We chose to read aloud to him for years and years. In about fifth grade, he finally started reading on his own. Heck, we still read to him a lot, but he reads to himself a lot too. He's finally learned to enjoy reading as well as just the story.

I've noticed that kindergarten and first grade kids get read to A LOT less than they used to. The current ideas seem to hold that they have to start learning all this extra stuff (things that they could easily learn later with less effort) early, because the SAT scores are dropping, or something. Well, back when I was in elementary school, and kids were actually learning something (that might give you some idea of how old I am), the big thing we learned in kindergarten was to put away our own toys. Maybe if more kids today would learn that, they wouldn't get in so much trouble later, which keeps them from learning the hard stuff that today's educators are trying to teach in kindergarten.


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wetwilly
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Yeah, rick, they're saying they might not accept me in grad school because, apparently, during my freshman writing course, I didn't put away my toys. If only someone had taught me to do that earlier in life!

By the way, isn't Rick Fisher the dude from Robotech?


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Survivor
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Wow.

Do you mean that they won't accept your or that they've decided not to give you a scholarship, though?

Because, freshmen that don't put away their toys do tend to blow scholarships, but as long as they don't let their gross fiscal/material irresponsibility affect their grades, I thought simple acceptances were safe.


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wetwilly
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Well, as soon as I pick up my toys they'll let me into grad school. But screw them, what do they think I am?
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Robyn_Hood
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Something I noticed in this study is that there seems to be a decline in reading across the board. I didn't read the whole thing, but I compared the groups as they progressed through each of the ten year periods.

For example, 18-24 year olds in '82 would be 28-34 in '92 and would be 38-44 in '02.

It isn't just that people are reading less within each age group, but as people are getting older, they appear to be reading less. But that might not have anything to do with literacy, and might have more to do wtih time. We might have the same number of hours in a day, but I think the pace of life has changed considerably in the last 20 years. I probably read more now than I did 10 years ago, but not nearly so much of it is for pleasure.

Looking a bit at the study itself, I have some issues. Perhaps people are reading less. At least, less literature. And that is qualified by a novel or short story that was read for pleasure and was not a piece of required reading for either work or school. Well, when I was going to school I didn't have a lot of extra time to read anything that wasn't for a class. But I also made sure to take some classes that let me read things that I wanted. I took an early-English lit class and a couple of Shakespeare classes so that I could read what I wanted without taking away from my studies. But according to the perameters of the study, they don't count.

Another thing that bothered me is that the last part of the study was massive. In 2002 they decided to survey a larger sample group and do things far more in-depth. They then compared these results to simillar studies from 1982 and 1992. It isn't as though they asked the same questions of the same sized group every ten years.

Is the information useful? Yes.
Is it alarming? No.
Am I ranting? Yes. So feel free to ignore all of that

As to Phonix... Well, that is the method I learned on and it has served me well. I didn't learn to read until grade one, but I started learning some basics (i.e. A,B,Cs) and was read to long before that. I have a friend who learned using a sight method (I'm not even sure what that actually involves) and to this day, she reads less and has major problems with spelling and grammar. I don't know if the two things are related but they might be.

Then again the reason for a decline in reading might have something to with the nearly 300 t.v. channels available today (not to mention the internet) that weren't available 20 years ago.


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Keeley
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Dakota, do you use the Oak Meadows curriculum? When I was homeschooled, part of the curriculum included creating your own readers.

Regarding the phonics topic, sometimes it's not the method, but how the method is presented.

I would like to share one small story to illustrate, and preface it by saying that I've met some amazing teachers and I have a high respect for the profession. I considered becoming one when I was in college, but got scared away by some of the horror stories a friend of mine told me about being physically threatened in class. And she taught second grade.

The following story is a slam against a technique, not the profession.

My sister learned how to read using phonics. She loved reading and divided her time between that and art (she was a fantastic artist). When she entered first grade, Dad decided to put her into public school (she'd been homeschooled up to that point) for reasons that had nothing to do with the quality of her education. As far as I know, the school was also using phonics at the time (could be wrong on that ... my memory's not what it used to be).

My Mom got called into the principal's office later that year and was told that my sister was being placed in a remedial reading class because she obviously didn't know how to read. It took several weeks of talking to my sister and the school officials, but we finally figured out what had happened.

It turned out that each of the kids read the book together, turning pages at the same time. My sister, entralled by the story, would read ahead and lose her place. When the teacher would ask a question related to the page the class was on or ask my sister to read something out loud, she saw my sister flipping through the pages and assumed she was having trouble reading. Instead of testing her, the school just stuck her in a remedial reading course.

My sister didn't care though. In the remedial course, she was allowed to read whatever she wanted at whatever pace she chose. It made her extremely happy and she refused to go back to the "normal" class.


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rickfisher
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quote:
By the way, isn't Rick Fisher the dude from Robotech?
If he is, wetwilly, he ain't me. But there's a load of Rick Fishers out there, which is why I've decided to use F.A. Fisher for writing.

By the way, my point about putting away toys is that behavior is much worse in schools than it was, say, twenty years ago, and the kids who act up hurt everyone's education. I don't really think that the schools are responsible for this--it's mostly the parents' doing, though the trend is actually societal and the job is probably harder for parents than it used to be--but I also think that the trend towards early academics in schools, instead of early socialization, is a contributing factor. Because crucial tasks, both academic and social, are being taught at the wrong time, fewer people are learning them.

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited December 07, 2004).]


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bladeofwords
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I have two siblings my sister (third grade) and myself learned how to read using the phonics method. We both love to read. My brother learned using this crazy total immersion method and he hates reading, he just started highschool and he still hates reading. You can't get him to read for fun with threats of physical violence.

Another thing, I know that a lot of educated adults who don't read aren't reading because they don't have time. When you are working eighty hours a week it's hard to exactly have a lot of free time for relaxing. This is true even for me, when I'm doing a play after school (which takes up several hours a day) I don't read nearly as much.

Jon


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Lord Darkstorm
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Has anyone taking into account that most kids I know/see don't ever have a book in their hands? Most new music is created for who? Teenagers. Movies are more created for? Teenagers. My cable box has over 200 hundred channels...geared for? Teenagers. Vidio games...the same.

My point is that I don't think kids are reading because they don't want to. They have so many choices of distraction, and reading is so..."boring". I don't care what anyone thinks of the Harry Potter series...they are books, and it is the main books I see in childrens hands on the rare occasions I see it. Reading is being replaced with sitcoms and other badly written garbage massed produced for the box that occupies many peoples evenings. And yes, I get a bit bitter knowing that very little entertainment is targeted at me, someone who has a job, in preference for kids who don't. Of course, I do have books. Seems there is one market not completely child oriented.

(Yes, it is a shame that things have degraded this badly.)

As for learning to read, phonics worked for me. I love to read.


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Survivor
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quote:
You can't get him to read for fun with threats of physical violence.

I actually would like to meet someone who could be induced to read "for fun" with threats of physical violence.

Well, not actually


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Christine
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quote:
Harry Potter series...they are books, and it is the main books I see in childrens hands on the rare occasions I see it.

I think I tried to make this point earlier...Harry Potter is a good start for kids but as far as I can tell it's not getting kids to read again, as many claim, it's getting them to read exactly one thing -- the Harry Potter series. And now that they're coming out to movies I bet even that's going to go away soon.


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Lord Darkstorm
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quote:
And now that they're coming out to movies I bet even that's going to go away soon.

Sad thing is, I think you are right. I still think that it has helped a small percentage learn that books can be enjoyable. For that, I give her tons of praise.


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Kolona
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quote:
You don't just look at a work and know what it says when you're four. That happens through reptition, and a lot of it.

quote:
Words like "was," "once," "the," "two" and so forth. If you try to use phonics for these words, you wind up confusing the kids enough that they may never understand phonics. And then they'll never get to the point where they can read those words that they haven't seen before.

Don't underestimate kids. Just had my four-year-old granddaughter here showing off her reading skills (she and her brother are being homeschooled with phonics as the reading method). She's at the stage where she's sounding out the sounds, but when she came to 'the,' she gave me a knowing look and said, "I'm just going to say 'the.'" No confusion. She knew how to handle it.

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rickfisher
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quote:
when she came to 'the,' she gave me a knowing look and said, "I'm just going to say 'the.'" No confusion. She knew how to handle it.
Exactly. I don't think kids are incapable of handling these words--but they learn them as sight-words, not phonics. Phonics is essential--but there are some words, which are disproportionally found in simple, most-commonly-used words, which cannot be learned that way because they don't fit with the phonics rules. "The" is only slightly off, of course; lots of others are worse ("come" and "been" pop to mind as two that I hadn't mentioned earlier). Your granddaughter knew enough NOT to sound out "the", which means (as far as I can tell from this one little story) that her parents are doing a good job in teaching phonics, by not trying to force it on words where it doesn't belong.

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited December 08, 2004).]


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Christine
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Kolona, I don't believe that we're underestimating kids or that phonics is useless because a few words don't fit the rules or that kids won't just learn those words as they come to them. In the end, a good phonics technique is going to have to adapt a little bit when it comes to words that don't quite fit the phonetics rules, although "the" only varies slightly. My guess is that it is a common enough word that your granddaughter had seen it enough times to just know that word...and that is the point phonics is trying to get her to reach. I suppose what I *should* have said is that you don't just look at a word and know what it means before you've seen it enough times. Before that, you need to have something to guide your reading so you don't have to go to an adult to help you figure out a word until you're a teenager.
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Kolona
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My word. I'd have to be a gross hypocrite to even imply that phonics is useless. I'm a heavy-duty phonics proponent. I think its absence in the schools for the last generation of kids has done them -- and society -- a tremendous, almost criminal, disservice.

I, too, don't think 'the' is wholly unphonetic, but falls into the more confusing portions of phonics. There is, after all, more to phonics than long and short vowels.

My point is that children taught phonics will pick up many words, phonetic and unphonetic, as sight words in the course of their learning, but children taught whole language too often won't be able to break down unknown words phonetically. The organization I operate through as a literacy volunteer is seeing more adults coming in who can read, but not well, and not with the necessary comprehension. One of my students was in college struggling with reading.

An interesting note: In another city, where the literacy volunteer training I went through used computer programs to help students -- especially with math, which was part of the program to help prepare students for GEDs. One of the instructors said -- too casually for the comment, in my estimation -- that often students mastered the computer math programs, but had a hard time transferring the skills to pencil and paper.

I'm wondering now if learning to read on a computer has similar glitches. Since many people, me included, prefer to read on paper rather than on a screen, maybe we're short-circuiting students by teaching them anything on computer in the beginning of their studies. Maybe computer work should be only an adjunct, not a main method. Kind of like learning to add, subtract, multiply and divide first, before using a calculator. Maybe the computer reading kids do today is backfiring, if only in that they're unaware of the pleasurable differences in reading a book as opposed to a computer screen.


[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited December 08, 2004).]


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franc li
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My daughter learned by computer, but it was a super fancy expensive program made available through a community resource. She was the best reader in her kindergarten and reads books independently. So I don't know about that one.

That color code thing just sounds scary, though. Sounds like a conspiracy between the school board and the manufacturer of Ritalin.

I learned to read well, but I wasn't much of a reader until adulthood.


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Robyn_Hood
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My mother loved to read and I know I inherited her love of books, especially Perry Mason Mysteries. When I was a teen, I couldn't get my hands on enough of them. I also inherited my mother's drive stay up all night long and finish reading just to the end of the chapter (of course, I never specified which chapter ).

After my mom passed away, my dad continued to encourage my sisters and I to read. He started The Reading Program. We received $1 for every novel we read (books had to be at least 100 pages to count); and for every two books we read, we also received a new book.

With the increase of dual income and single parent homes in the last few decades, I sometimes wonder if things like books and reading fall by the wayside while parents opt for "cool" gifts to entertain their children like computers, t.v.s, and video games.

[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited December 09, 2004).]


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djvdakota
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Keeley, the program we're using is called PhonicsWorks by K12 (William Bennet's homeschool program) I'm really quite happy with it and my little one is learning to read splendidly.

About kids learning to read--yes there is a giant push in the schools to teach kids to read from the get go. No more coloring and naptime in kindergarten. It's phonics from the first day. And now they're pushing for even earlier education, citing studies that say that children in high-risk families benefit from it, therefore all children will benefit from it. Bulls*&#!

The trouble is that most kids just aren't ready to learn the complexities of reading until they're seven or eight. And if they become frustrated before that point they're labeled 'remedial', they learn to hate reading, and when their optimal learn-to-read time comes along (which can be anywhere between 5 and 11 years old) they've already learned that it just isn't for them. Which is why I advocate segregated learning in elementary schools. Let them learn at their own pace and let them learn with children who are learning at the same pace they are. Then, once that light bulb goes off in their heads they can be reorganized into different classes. Class roles could be changed a couple of times a year as children fall behind or move ahead. The REAL trouble, however, with something like this is that the parents make a big deal out of it. It's PARENTS who say crap like, "Well MY boy is in the 'ADVANCED' class," with the clear implication that he is 'smarter than your kid.'

I actually think the schools should reinstitue corporal punishment--for parents.

But the differing degrees of learning progression is one of the myriad reasons I homeschool. We learn at my children's pace. I have the freedom to take it nice and slow on Phonics when little one is struggling, or to let my oldest take off with Shakespeare for months at a time if that's what she wants to do, or to let middle kid skip ahead and do five or six lessons at a time in history because he just can't put the book down.

My son learned to hate reading in first grade because they were trying out some new program in which he had to read incredibly boring phonics readers three times! Not reading to master, just reading to read. If he masters on the first try, why should he have to read three times? At first I stupidly trusted in the skill and knowledge of the 'educated professionals', but soon abandoned it. I'd sign him off as having read it three times when he'd only read it once.

Fortunately, we found some books that ignited his love of reading, (Lemony Snickett) but not all children are that lucky.


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Survivor
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I wish my parents had bribed me with money and books for reading....
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Minister
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No fooling. They practically had to beat me with lead pipes, sharp ones, to keep me away from books. (Okay, tiny exageration there; doesn't that fall under artistic license? But I think my wife is considering taking up the practice.)
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Christine
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My parents couldn't afford to bribe me with money for books...they couldn't even afford the books. Fortunately, we ahve libraries.
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Lord Darkstorm
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My wife and I came to an agreement. She doesn't complaine about my books, and I don't say a word about the number of shoes she has.

Of course I still get the occasional comment when the amazon order shows up.


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NewsBys
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I wonder if some people hate to read because they can't make "mental images".
Maybe they lack the skills to take written words and create a scene or imagine characters.
Visual media has spoiled their minds. They are fed pictures through video games, TV and movies, so they never try to imagine things on their own. And TV is faster, they get the info in a second, not minutes or hours.
To illustrate this:
I paint. One day while I was painting in the park, it surprised me when a lady asked me how I could see the color of the sky and mix the paints to match the same color. I didn't understand how it could puzzle her, and I couldn't explain it to her. It is just something I can do.
Maybe it is like that.
I can easily take the words and create pictures in my imagination. Maybe some people can't "mix the paint".
So it won't matter how we teach them to read, if they can't unlock the real potential of reading then it will not be enjoyable to them. Sort of like trying to describe a color to a blind person. They are imaginally blind.

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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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When my children were learning to read, I noticed that #2 was not doing as well as #1 had done. So, I tried a reading competition that summer. It backfired. #1 was the clear winner as soon as it started, and #2 just gave up.

Next, I tried rewards, but instead of money, I rewarded them with my time. They had to read ten books that were a minimum length (100 pages for #1 and 50 pages for #2) and when they finished, they could choose a place to eat and go to lunch alone with me.

That backfired, too, in a way--I'm not all that wild about eating at McDonald's. But it did get #2 reading. (At our first lunch, she told me that she didn't know what to do with me.)

We did this over several summers (and only during summers--in order to get them to read for enjoyment and to not compete with school), with the minimum number of pages increasing, and the additional choice of a movie instead of a lunch.

#3 child was several years younger than the other two, and it didn't work quite as well, but it did work. All three of them are good readers, and they all read for enjoyment.

(#2, by the way, went on to enroll in a program called International Baccalaureate in which she earned enough credits in high school to be able to graduate from the University of Utah in three years with a double major--communications and linguistics. She is now in her second year of law school--lots of reading there.)

As they say in the ads for things to help people lose weight: "your results may vary," but I strongly recommend doing something like it. Rewarding kids with your time will benefit you as well as your kids, and it doesn't have to cost much money at all.


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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I discussed the information in the previous post with my #1 child since I posted it, and our discussion brought me to the realization that one reason the program may not have worked as well for #3 is because the reward of spending time with me may not have been as great a motivator for #3 as it was for #2 and #1.

Actually, spending time with me probably wasn't as great a motivator for #2, either. Her motivation may have been more that it gave her a way to be competitive, without actually losing a competition.

Anyway, now I think a better motivation for #3 might have been a reward of time spent with my husband.

So I'm posting this as something you who may want to try this program should consider. If the reward is time with a parent, one parent's time may be a better motivator than another parent's time.


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