posted
How about if we move the discussion of surnames that refer to old professions (Tanner, Fletcher, Thatcher, etc) from ArCHeR's Anagennisi topic over to this one?
We can broaden it to a discussion of surnames in general (and I'll change the topic title to Surname Play).
posted
Not all names are proffessions, of course. Some, like my mother's maiden name, are locations where one lived. Shaw is a clearing in the woods.
However, I'm not sure if my surname would be considered a title, nickname, or profession. It's Reichard and means something like "harsh ruler" or "bad ruler" or something to that effect...
Godfrey is germanic/nordic and is clearly an association between the deity Frey/Freya/Freytag with the addition of God at the front. Not sure what the original reasons were for combining the two, but is is now a very prevalent name in England.
quote:When this was going in Archers thread I had a couple of ideas, but didn't want to clutter his story thread even more.
One, coming up with surnames based on current modern professions that in 100,200 or 500 years are nearly forgotten.
Max Barry actually had a lot of fun with this in Jennifer Government. It's a satirical look at capitalism, and everyone adopts the name of the company the work for as their last name---hence the title character being Jennifer Government.
There’s Hack Nike, and his bosses John Nike, and um...John Nike. Jennifer’s daughter’s last name is hyphenated, Government-McDonald’s. Apparently, school’s are run by corporations too, with her daughters being owned by McDonalds. Pepsi schools are better.
posted
It was a very entertaining book, CS Friedman does something similar in "This Alien Shore" and there is a touch of that in Neal Stephensons "Snowcrash".
posted
As I understand it, there are four basic sources for surnames:
1--patronymic (child of father's name) 2--occupation 3--place of origin 4--descriptive in some sense
I think Godfrey might fit under the fourth category, but it's rather "everything else" anyway.
Of course, interpreting a surname as being under a different category (such as occupation for Godfrey--you know, don't you, that there were people who did that, but they were called "iconoclasts") is a way to play with surnames.
Salesistant Frycook, definately fits what I had in mind. Grammer or Programmer Manager Senator, Gressman (for those political families like the Kennedy's and Bush's)
Children can take the name of the mother as well...Matryonic.
posted
Lewis, from Louis, from Ludwig, from the Germanic name Hludwig which meant "famous warrior", composed of the elements hlud "fame" and wig "warrior
So, let's see, if you lived in Hawaii and got into some lava that was running so quickly that you couldn't avoid it and burnt your foot, you might end up with the surname "Pahoehoe", and if you were always faster than the lava, but prone to giving warnings, you might end up as "Aa"?
Godfrey From the Germanic name Godafrid, which meant "peace of god" from Germanic god "god" and frid "peace". Godfrey of Bouillon was the leader of the First Crusade and the first ruler of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem.
posted
Purely made up, of course, but one could say that Munsil possibly could be a slang word stemming from municipal.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Jan 2005
|
posted
Ha'i mai 'oe, mike. (You tell me.) Pahoehoe and aa are, as you obviously know, the words for smooth lava and rough lava, so it could work. That first guy could also be one of the Eleelewawae, a running together of the words 'black' and 'foot.' An early forbear of theirs was set adrift for being so lohi (slow) in not outrunning the lava -- a skill highly prized among Hawaiians -- and survived to step ashore in North America. His ancestors here are the famous Blackfoot Indians.
And now you know.
Hoopunipunis, hoopunipunis, all of it hoopunipunis.
Actually, the one to ask is Punahougirl. She's the genuine article. I'm just the next step up from a malihini (newcomer), but cannot remember the word for return visitor.
I thought that Munsil sounded a bit Germanic, so I looked it up in a German dictionary. A Munster is a church that has to do with a monastery. That's as close as I could come.
quote:Munsee or Mun·sees 1. One of the two Algonquian languages of the Delaware peoples, spoken in northern New Jersey, downstate New York, and western Long Island. 2. A member of the Munsee-speaking branch of the Delaware people.
So does that mean Mike is the descendact od someone who spoke Algonquian?
quote:An early forbear of theirs was set adrift for being so lohi (slow) in not outrunning the lava -- a skill highly prized among Hawaiians -- and survived to step ashore in North America.
So, I guess his feet healed during the trip?
Anyway, I've heard various suggestions of the origin of my surname, including a gaelic version that translates in a very unflattering way. Thanks.
I just found one I like best; "Maunsell" was a member of the Norman contingent who invaded England in 1066.
posted
what about my last name. Patridge... notice it is NOT Partridge, i am not a bird, or at least i certainly hope i'm not :P
Posts: 477 | Registered: Oct 2004
|
posted
Could it be a variant on PÀDRAIG? Gaelic for Patrick, from the Roman name Patricius, which meant "nobleman" in Latin.
Posts: 2710 | Registered: Jul 2004
|
posted
You're forgetting one thing when talking about future surnames. The whole point of surnames was to identify one John from another, etc. Since we all have surnames now, all we can hope for is a good nickname.
But hey, maybe orphins can start doing it when they find out they're adopted, and pick a career.
(btw, I have recognized all of the jokes, I just like adding factual things when they haven't been added)
posted
I just had a thought. What if we went back to patronymic or matronymic names? Can you imagine Shaniquasdotter? Or Codyson? Pick your favorite weird name and stick a son on it.
How about Blogger for an occupation/hobby born name?
posted
Archie Fire "Lame Deer." Lame Deer is what he went by. Archie was his Anglo name. Fire was the family name, given by a white gov't worker; the gov't wanted the Indians to have last names, so he looked around the room, saw the fire, and said, "How about 'fire'?" So says Lame Deer's book, Gift of Power.
quote:You're forgetting one thing when talking about future surnames. The whole point of surnames was to identify one John from another, etc. Since we all have surnames now, all we can hope for is a good nickname.
What if we have a new Dark Ages between now and the proposed future? The loss of present knowledge could account for a return of the old naming system.
"Before the America and the Euro blew up, your great granpappy was a Tee-ess-arr for the Citee Bankers in the Man Attan. And that's why our last name is Tessar, Johnny. Now go clean out the megaroach stables."
In a post cataclysm world, where things were knocked back a few hundred years, you might eventually give rise to "profession" based naming. You also might have families that proudly hold to pre-cataclysm professions as a point of status or pride.
posted
You're not getting what I'm saying, though.
People didn't give occupational names because they were in a more primative time. They did it because they didn't have last names. There is no need to change a last name, unless you really hate it, or you get amnesia and forget it. Not many people hate their names enough to outweigh their since of duty to their family, and amnesia is mostly only a temporary affliction.
So, unless there is a giant bomb that erases everyone's personal memory, or makes everyone despise their own name, I don't see occupational naming in the future outside of orphans...
People have had last names or titles since they could talk. I am pretty sure Grog the caveman was also known as Grog Bearkiller.
The conventions for establishing a last name have changed, the supposition of the story would be that due to some sort of cataclysm, naming conventions had rolled back to an earlier method.
Population density creates the need for family names, if there are only 50 people in a community, everyone knows which Mark your talking about, at 2000 people, you need to know it's Mark the Miller, i.e. Mark Miller.
posted
Speaking of cataclysms: among the people affected by the Indian Ocean tsunami was a village where everyone has only one name, so even in modern times surnames aren't always necessary. (I would expect people to give those villagers the village name as a surname, but I haven't seen that done yet.)
Anyway, so you're right, ArCHeR.
If someone wanted to write a story set in the future with surnames referring to occupations people have now, that someone would have to come up with a reason for the change in surnames, but I wouldn't think that would be too hard. Science fiction writers have come up with even stranger things and had plausible explanations for them.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
