posted
A hypothetical situation: Say you are an unpublished nobody author. You have a finished novel, and there are several scenes in it that could be stand-alone short stories. Do you (A) Go after the bigger fish first and try to get the novel published, and try to publish the short stories later?
(B) Try to publish the short stories first so that you can say that you've been published when you send the novel out?
or (C) Do both at once?
Would there be legal issues with choice C? Or with the other choices for that matter?
posted
Would the individual scenes have quite as deep a meaning if they're not surrounded by the context of the story? What I'm trying to figure out is not whether the chapters CAN stand alone, but rather whether they SHOULD. Would people care about the characters as much as in the novel? Would they be well enough developed? Are there aspects of your setting that would have to get info-dumped since you don't give yourself the advantage of the full, natural introduction and development you get from your novel?
My opinion: I'd take a really REALLY close look at the potential short stories, and be brutally honest with your analysis. If you didn't know any other part of your larger story arc, would you understand/care about what's going on in the short story?
I tried to write a short story using the setting of my novel (it wasn't even a part of the larger novel's story arc; it just used the world I created!), and I found that I just couldn't get the story in with the amount of world-introduction that was required. Even after I figured that out, the whole story still seemed shallow and unmotivated. It wasn't until I rewrote it as a completely separate story that I believed it could actually stand alone. (Quick unsolicited plug: Speaking in Flowers, coming soon to an F&F forum near you [hopefully!])
I don't know if this opinion is particularly relevant to your question, but I would definitely recommend taking a second look at the actual story you're thinking about removing. If it's usually propped up on both sides with the rest of your novel, you have to be really sure it can stand alone before you remove the supports.
posted
Thanks Jeraliey, that's good advice. I'm not actually in the situation I described, my question was completely hypothetical. However I can think of a published novel where this would have been an issue. One of the volumes in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun series had a scene where the characters had a storytelling contest. As far as I could tell, the stories had absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the book. I don't know if Wolfe ever tried to publish them.
This probably is not a very common situation, but I was just curious how Hatrackers would handle it if they were in it.
(Granted, in the Wolfe novel I did get the feeling that these were short stories that he'd written at some other time and had not been able to publish, so the storytelling contest was merely a device to get them into the novel. I don't know if that's true, but that's how it seemed to me.)
posted
In this situation, you do whatever you like. There aren't any major legal issues as long as you warn the potential publisher that parts of the work have already been published and you didn't sign away the farm when selling the parts you sold first.
That said, this is easier to accomplish in a safe and legal manner if you are an established writer known to both the short fiction market which took the extracts and the publisher considering your book. It helps to have a good agent who supports what you're doing. And you do have to acknowledge that both the markets publishing your material in this situation can put the kebosh on this if either doesn't like the idea.
For an author looking for first publication, this is mostly just another reason for people to say "no thanks". The reason that established authors get away with it is because demand for work by those authors outruns supply. So the publishers involved will go the extra mile to have something from that author. Generally, it would be expected that newer authors would be in the reverse situation, having more work available than demand for it.
posted
I judge that we need an expert to answer this question. We're just speculating.
I have seen at least one novel that started as a short story and was expanded. The short story was "Rammer," the novel was _A World Out of Time_, Niven, and both were great. It can happen.
But I want to emphasize that if you go ahead and publish the short stories, then try to sell the whole as a novel, it will likely be more difficult because you may have used up a good chunk of your first publication rights. Even if the whole thing is as yet unpublished, publish too large a chunk and whoosh...there go the rights. That's part of why Frags & Feed has a 13-line limit -- so you don't give away your first publication or electronic rights.
If you have difficulty selling the novel to a publisher, you may consider trying to sell it as a serial to a magazine. That won't pay as well, but it would be a way of getting it published.
Or, if you sell the novel, trying to publish some of the short stories seperately could be used as a marketing ploy, but the publisher might not go for it.
posted
I've seen several stories that say "This is part of such and such novel" and the novel has not come out yet. For a magazine, taking a section of an already published novel would be the same as taking a previously published story. It's not good for them, because it raises the chances that people have already read it. For a book publisher, a story taken from a novel would act as a tease to the novel itself.
Part of the thirteen line rule keeps us below ten percent. Ten percent of a novel--depending on the novel--could easily be a short story. Besides, the rights for magazines and novels are different.
posted
A rather different approach (and a bit more friendly to new writers) is short stories that end up becoming the author's inspiration to write a novel, as well as the publisher's inspiration to buy it. It is certainly true that magazines typically offer the author more latitude in publishing the same story later with a differnt company (don't just assume this, though, find out).
Also, the case that MR mentions (where the book has already been accepted by a publisher and the publisher gives you permission to sell parts of it to a magazine as short stories), is not too rare. Extra press, particularly target audience directed like that, is something that increases the publisher's chances of a healthy profit. But that is something for the publisher to decide once you've sold them your book, don't do it on your own or you will get yourself in some very deep...deepness.
Before you sell your book, though, it's all up to you.
posted
Monetarily you will not get anywhere near the financial gain for a short story that you will for a novel. OSC has written an article about writing short stories versus novels. Have you read that yet?
Posts: 451 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I can see that there are a lot of different ways to do things and the specific situation would determine the outcome.
It seems to me that the advice could be summed up like this: unless specifically worked out with the various publishers ahead of time, selling excerpts from a novel as short stories will probably do more harm than good when it's time to sell the novel itself.
JB: Yes, I've read that article. (I've obsessively read everything by OSC that I can find ).
posted
First of all, when you have a short story published, you should only sell serial rights or anthology rights.
Second, when you have a novel published, you sell book rights (and usually split the subsidiary rights with the book publisher). (More or less--I'm simplifying here, okay?)
If you are going to try to sell excerpts from an unpublished novel, only send them to professional magazines or anthologies (those that pay at least 3 cents per word). You do this because they are the only credits that a book publisher will pay attention to when you send around the novel manuscript.
It can actually be a plus to have ANALOG or REALMS OF FANTASY print something that is part of a novel you want to sell. It can generate interest in "the rest of the story" and create a readership that is more likely to want to buy the book because they've read part of it as a story. Book publishers and editors pay attention to what is published in the professional magazines.
Having part of your novel published as a short story in a professional magazine or anthology is not the same as using up your electronic rights by posting that same part of your novel on the Internet. When you post that much of your novel on the Internet, you are giving it away. When you are paid by a magazine or anthology for the right to print it, you are being professional. Do you all see the difference?
Acting like a professional will get you treated like a professional and other professionals will take you seriously.
So, if you have a novel excerpt that works as a short story, go ahead and send it to the professional markets. It is easier to sell a novel after parts of it have gained readers through magazine publication than it would be to do the opposite. If you get all the money out of your writing that you possibly can, all the better for you.
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