posted
There's a very interesting article at Slate.com about the correlation between names and lifestyle. It's making me think of the way we name characters; we might pick a good name for a character, but how often do we think about what it was like for that character to grow up with that name? On the same lines, what does the name say about the place/family where the character was born?
Read the article, I think it's interesting food for thought.
posted
Hmm. That is interesting. For me, I've always been aware of the effect names have on the people who bear them. I'm one of the billions of Brittanys out there, and I have to say that I really don't like my name. It's pretty enough, but it gets really annoying when you walk into a room and say "Hey, Brittany!" and six people look up. The sad thing is, my mother thought that she was picking something original for me. *sigh*
I've never liked my name, so I have invented all sorts of nicknames for myself over the years. For a while, I refused to go by Britt because so many other girls did. Then, after other girls started to go by Brittany, I let people call me Britt (but I never really liked it). I've been Anne and Rachel and Jaina and several other things, and I have friends who call me all of these. But my real name certainly had an effect on me--it's part of the reason I like to imagine so much. I spent a lot of time imagining that my name was something other than Brittany.
As for what it says about the place/family--I think we all do that subconsciously. We know that if we're writing a fantasy story, we're not likely to name a character Sally because that just doesn't seem to fit with the fantasy world. But for sci-fi, Sally doesn't seem so ludicrous a name.
So I don't know. Maybe I think too much about my characters' names. But names give a definite flavor to a story, and it takes a good understanding of the culture you've created to be able to come up with names that fit it.
There's my two cents, assuming it's worth that much.
[This message has been edited by Jaina (edited April 12, 2005).]
posted
I've never really thought about how my characters' names have affected their lives. I guess that's probably because I try to choose fairly unremarkable names in their world and culture.
quote:But the kind of parents who name their son Jake don't tend to live in the same neighborhoods or share economic circumstances with the kind of parents who name their son DeShawn.
My father named me Richard, the name that he had chosen for himself when he came to this country. Although I was aware of the declining status of this name throughout my youth, I never had any problems with using it as my name. Then again, I never had any problem using anything else as my name either.
One thing that I find moderately curious in retrospect, why would my father name his second son after himself? I'm afraid that the explanation offered in GATTACA for this sort of thing just doesn't cut it...though my middle name is Surpassing Brilliance (in Chinese, of course). My father claims that this means brilliant son of the next generation, which makes sense because my brother would then be first son of the next generation.
It is true, the official explanation has always been that it was because I demonstrated truly remarkable mental development immediately after being born. But that doesn't explain why my father's name was still available.
posted
I think it is interesting that names you have chosen to go by are Anne and Rachel. My name is Rachel Ann and I've always hated it for being so plain. Plus when you hear your name yelled a lot when you are a kid, it starts to grate on your ears. I want to give my kids more distinctive names, although I am also aware of the trap of a name being too unusual. I want to give my children names they won't hate later in life, but for almost every name in the book there are negative connotations somewhere. There is a funny, satirical baby name book called "Don't Name Your Baby." The author claims that all names are aweful and it says on the back of the book that the author has two children named # and *. The things said about some of the names are hilarious.
Posts: 818 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I would be willing to bet I know what happened with Winner and Loser. A lot probably has to do with expectations.
Loser probably didn't have many expectations placed on him so when he did well and rose above his name, he was aplauded etc...
Winner on the other hand had a lot to live up to. He was expected to be a winner and when he didn't meet those expectations he became depressed and just gave up all together... ------------------------- It is interesting to look at some of the trends and try to guess...er...figure out "Why?". Some very interesting ideas in both of the naming articles.
quote:But the kind of parents who name their son Jake don't tend to live in the same neighborhoods or share economic circumstances with the kind of parents who name their son DeShawn.
This sort of thing goest to the heart of the matter: Baby naming says more about the parents than it does about the child. I think someone else around here mentioned that in another thread, but I think it does ring true.
Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
autumnmuse: Anne was because of the Anne of Green Gables series, which was an addiction of mine at the time. Don't know why I picked Rachel, though. I'll have to take a look at that book, it sounds great!
JBSkaggs: Really? There were about five Brittanys in my graduating class alone. It really is a mid-80s name, though, so most of the people who have it are in their late teens/early twenties right now.
posted
The name thing is interesting. I think the whole naming of characters thing -- as discussed by OSC -- is important. I just read "Eragon,” which was a fun, if not innovative story -- but every time I came across one of the stereotypically fantasy character names -- Brom, Eragon, etc. -- I winced. They've become a real distraction and kill whatever suspension of disbelief I have reached. Of course, I've used these types of names in a few stories. I’m not quite sure what the solution to the naming issue is.
[This message has been edited by Lanius (edited April 12, 2005).]
[This message has been edited by Lanius (edited April 12, 2005).]
posted
Story about a class where the teacher said, Chinese immigrants often pick American names, and there was one who picked Patience for herself, because it was a quality she hoped to have. "If you picked a name on this basis, what would you name yourself?" she asked.
posted
Survivor, it's only 1/4 as inexplicable that my name was still available when I was born. I mean, the two oldest were Mom's parents, the next two names were a bridesmaid and a sister, before they get around to using their own names. I'm thinking the Nixons are the only explanation makes any sense. Though I don't know the story of how dad picked his name to begin with, or even when it happened. I believe Nixon may have been vice-president, though. I don't know how Dad regarded Nixon. He was so disillusioned after Watergate, but to be disillusioned, one first has to be illusioned.
Posts: 366 | Registered: Sep 2006
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makes me think that maybe, even though i already know quite a bit about Slicer, Viniece, and Yulanaia, perhaps i do not yet know everything... i really should go back and try to establish the whys of all my character names in my stories. not my whys, but the whys of their parents, the whys of their cultures, and the whys of themselves...
well. as for my own name, my parents gave it to me because they wanted their youngest boys named from the scriptures. and me especially they wanted to join the scriptures together. my full name is Andrew Lehi Patridge, Andrew was an Apostle in the Old Testament, and Lehi was a prophet in the Book of Mormon. as for myself, i go by Drew, i do so because i feel it is a much more unusual nickname for an Andrew to use, plus i feel it has artistic meaning. i even used the name Kaita in my Japanese class, which is a noun form of the draw verb in Japanese
The other fun part about names in our family is that sometimes if one of us kids complained about something random, a typical response would be "You guys are just lucky we didn't name you kids Egbert, Hortensia, and Bartholemew! Quit whining for a minute and be grateful!"
Dunno what this says about me...
But I love my name, which roughly translates to: (G-d is my judge)(date palm)(man of peace). Cool concepts, all, and with pretty renditions if you ask me. They don't really make too much sense together, but definitely cool concepts
posted
I thought it was interesting that the article said that black children are usually given distinctively black names and that white children are given distinctively white names. I know this is definitely not true 100% of the time as I have a name that everyone automatically assumes is a black name. I'm white, however, so when people read my name and then see me, they're expecting to see a black person, but don't.
And then there's the black names that weren't originally black, but European. Tyron, for instance. That's a Celtic name, but most guys I see with that name are black. My name (which I'm not going to give--I'm too cautious) is actually a Slavic name, but most people with my name are black (except for of course me).
I absolutely hate it when people assume that I'm black from just reading my name--not that I have anything against blacks, by the way,for I certainly do not. I'm just tired of people thinking I'm black just based off of my name. It gets on my nerves.
What's really interesting, though, is that my name is actually an Eastern European word (not sure which language exactly) for "fairy," which I think is completely appropriate as I love fantasy. Looks like my parents named me the right name, eh?
My kids have unusual-- well, they used to be unusual-- Celtic or Welsh names. Who knew that the name Liam would get popular when I gave that name to baby #3 back in 1996? But it's sometimes fun to see how people try to pronounce Dierdre.
As for the black vs. white type names, I have a cousin, born and raised in Idaho, named LaDawn. Definately not a black person, but there are many caucasian people in the Intermountain West whose names begin with "La." Remember BYU coach Lavell Edwards? And my maternal grandmother's name is Lawana. But then, I have a black friend in VA named LaTanya.
posted
Keep in mind that many native American names (or American Indian, if you prefer) began with the letters LA. My mother's name is "LaReese", named after her great aunt, who was half-English, half-American Indian. My mother was born in '48, well before the naming craze of LaTanya et al... It wasn't until the late 80's or early 90's when people started automatically making assumptions about her ethnicity based on her name.
Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
It's very interesting to find out about people's and what their history is. It gives them more dimension for me anyway. There is a great website (which I can't remember right now) that gives you a huge number of names and their meanings. I am very bad as I judge people by their names. Three of my best friends are Bronwyn so whenever I meet another Bronwyn I have a very positive expectation of them. I don't like my own name, it really doesn't seem to fit - Lianne - but the fact that it is derived from the greek word for sun - Helios - that was taken through different language pathways is very interesting (well I think it is)
Posts: 112 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
You have three best friends[i] named [i]"Bronwyn"?
Nobody has ever explained Watergate to my satisfaction. And yes, I know about the burglarizing and wiretapping of the DNC at the Watergate Hotel, along with various theories about the FBI being involved one way or another. The part I don't understand is the scandal.
Since something like that is pretty subjective, I guess there is no explanation. As for my father, I don't know what he believed or now believes. If he was disillusioned with Nixon after the Watergate scandal, then I tend to think he must have believed that a) Nixon wasn't directly involved in it and b) Nixon failed to begin the coverup as quickly and effectively as he should have.
But then, I only ever knew the man post-Watergate. Perhaps there was a time in his life when he believed in things like right and wrong.
posted
We have a prosecutor in the next county over who has the married name of "Crystal Roach". She is an excellent prosecutor and is noted for handling big cases without flinching or backing down. Still, I wonder if it has hindered her career. If you were looking through a phone book for an attorney and your choice was her or "Bob Smith", who would you choose, assuming you knew neither party?
posted
I worked for a sales manager once who interviewed a lady with the last name Hooker and refused to hire her on that basis alone. I was pretty upset with him for that since it wasn’t fair and she was a good fit for the job on every other level, but he wouldn’t budge. He just could not get past that one thing.
I can see where in the case of Crystal Roach being an attorney, it could actually help her. What if her opposing attorney fails to see her as a serious threat and therefore does not prepare his case as well as he might have going up against Lester Wellington or whatever?
I think Roach is a French name pronounced more like "Rosh". Of course, flipping through the Yellow Pages and reading the name from an Anglo perspective, yeah, it would be harder to take seriously.
Of course with a strong track record and public renown, it could be a name that people would remember and even look for.
Just the same, I think I would add a "B" to the beginning. I'd rather be Crystal Broach. Of course then people would probably think of me as nothing but a tall, blonde bimbo!
posted
I think that names have an immediate influence on almost all of us, whether we mean to allow it or not. I think it comes from several things: One thing is past experience with other people of that same name. For instance, there was a bully who tormented the heck out of me in junior high, scared me to death. I cannot stop the schism of fear that flashes through me whenever I meet someone with the same name. I’ve matured enough to be able to give them the chance to prove they are not a junior high bully but it still enters into my opinion of them just for a moment.
Another influence on how we react to a name is how famous that name is in Hollywood. Unless their name is very common (John, David, Michael, etc), a mega movie or music star ends up with the patent on that name, at least as far as in the entertainment world. Parents might name their children after their favorite movie star but a writer would never use that name unless they purposely wanted to draw a comparison or make a contrast.
Finally, I think we all have an internal rhythm and sound we like for certain names. I noticed while reading the lists of the 20 Blackest Names that I tend to veer toward that same kind of sound and rhythm when naming my characters, particularly the female names. I really like three syllable names ending in an “ee-ah” or “ay-ah” sound. I never once considered any of the names I’ve created as “black” but I’m sure someone might.
I think it is a great idea to explore if our characters’ names had any affect on their lives but in general, it is going to be impossible to have every one of our readers judge our characters the same way just by their names.
posted
There was another Adam Williams (My name) in my Middle and High School. It sucked. I remember being called to be checked out many many times, and that's always great as a kid in Middle School. Of course when I got there they wanted the other one. After I graduated from High School I thought it'd all finally be over, but I was wrong. Got a call last summer, 2 years after, and it was some counselor or teacher from my old High School who meant to call the other Adam. I will never escape this.
Posts: 39 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
LMAO... that is the best story I've ever heard. Luckily, I've never had to deal with that issue because nobody else in this country has my last name (except for close relitives, who don't have my first name)...
Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
If first and last names go well together characters can be more memorable. My rule of thumb is to keep typical WASPy first and last names apart. If a character has the first name Mary she must have a last name that is Japanese or Polish. If a character has the last name of Jones he should have an exotic first name like Slobodan (or Indiana).
Posts: 976 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
See, Doc Brown, this is the kind of thing the article made me think about. I have a character, Scott Huang, who I named for the same reasons you mentioned. To make him stand out--but, the fact that he had a Chinese surname added all this history with it. Suddenly he had parents that immigrated; he felt neither fully American nor fully Chinese. Thinking about where he got the name added levels of richness to his character that I had not looked for, but welcomed.
His partner is Cameron M. Oakes the Fourth. The name just screams that he has a different background than Huang.
limo said
quote:I think if I were hiring an attorney I'd figure anyone who can survive past childhood with a name like Crystal Roach is bound to be pretty tough.
I think you're right, but I don't know if I would have thought about it before reading that article. I would have probably picked Crystal Roach for a bimbo attorney--well, okay, I would never name a character Crystal Roach--but its impact on her backstory wouldn't occur to me till later, if at all.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:If first and last names go well together characters can be more memorable.
What's weird (to me) is that both Jeraliey and I have stories on the go with characters with similar names.
Her character is Jeraliey Hudson. My character is Jeremiah Hudson.
We've agreed (in jest) that whoever publishes first must change the name of their character to something truly awful. Actually, neither of us care, but it I find it interesting that we would choose names that were similar, names that had a nice ring to it. Names, perhaps, are incredibly important in a story.
posted
oops... sorry... brain malfunction there. Yes, I meant to say that whoever publishes first gets to keep their character's name, and the other has to change their character's name to something truly awful.
posted
Bravo, MaryRobinette. Scott Huang is a great name for a fictional character.
If he were my character I would emphasize that he pronounces his last name as two syllables instead of one. I prefer having first and last names being different numbers of syllables. That way, when I decide whether other characters refer to him by first name or last name I can achieve different effects. To wit:
"I won't warn you again, Scott."*
"I won't warn you again, Michael."
"I won't warn you again, Yankovich."
"I won't warn you again, Huang." (Try pronouncing Huang as one syllable and as two syllables.)
Can you feel how the one and three syllable names leave the end of the sentence flat?
From a writer's perspective it is handy to have a two syllable name available for the speaker to choose. In subtle ways a two syllable name with this sentence gives the speaker a cadence that is intelligent and menacing. Choosing the one or three syllable name gives the speaker an oafish cadence.
Of course I can always compose my sentences to achieve any affect I want. But if a character has the same number of syllables in first and last names I lose some flexibility.
(* I realize this dialogue is terribly cliche and would never encourage anyone to write anything like it.)
[This message has been edited by Doc Brown (edited April 15, 2005).]
posted
I try to make all my main characters different from myself. I am a lower-middle class mid-twenties caucasian female. To date none of my MC's have been even close to that. Along those lines, I frequently change the ethnicity of my characters, although since most of what I write isn't set on Earth it doesn't matter as much. In fact, I find that I love worldbuilding to the point where most of my cultures have their own internal rules about names, which means I mostly cannot use traditional names. That can be both liberating and incredibly frustrating.
An interesting thing happened to my grandmother once. Her name was Flossie May Hicks (hey, it was a different generation). Once she got a piece of mail addressed to Floosie May Hickie.
Jaina, I have always been compared by people who know me to Anne of Green Gables. I would say I've always been quite a lot like her. In that sense, I love the name Ann. But, also from those books, Rachel Lynd is a meddling busybody, so that's why I didn't like the name Rachel as much. As an adult I like it a lot better than I did as a kid. I guess I don't mind as much that it doesn't lend itself well to nicknames. All my siblings had names that were easily shortened, but what do you do with Rachel? You can go with Rae, or Ray. Spelled the second way it sounds like a man's name. Or you can just leave off the 'el' sound. But then how do you spell that? Rach looks wrong, but so does Rache. Oh well. I was always 'Rachel.'
posted
I don't know how Mrs Roach pronounces her last name, but all of the news people pronounce it just like the common bug. As she is not someone to trifle with, I assume they are pronouncing it correctly.
Recently, I have been submitting stories under my first two initials and last name. I started doing this after a Google search revealed that I am a pro-skateboarder in Europe. (Dang I'm, good. )
A Google search on your name is not a bad idea. At least you can see if anyone else is using it that might cause confusion.
posted
That google search is a good idea. Apparently I'm a Celtic fiddler/dancer. Cameron is just too common of a name. I suppose I could use my middle name (no hits for that one!), but as that is my daughter's name as well, probably better not. Well, if it becomes an issue, I can always use my maiden name. Every hit for that name is really me OK, so there is one at the very end of the results that isn't.
--Mel
[This message has been edited by MCameron (edited April 16, 2005).]
posted
There's a girl who goes to Cornell with my name...I did an image search, and she even LOOKS like me! I admit to being moderately weirded out...
Posts: 1041 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Wow. I totally have MPD. I Goggled my name and I'm a website tech, on the Board of Directors at some college, on a Government Reform Commission, a nurse, a professor of nursing, and who knows what else. I never knew I was so accomplished. Posts: 225 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Maybe it's your evil twin, Jeraliey. Come from another dimension to rule the world.
As another suggestion, Google your name every now and then. The last time I did mine was about 5 years ago and no one else was using it then. Now I get page after page talking about skateboards. (I didn't know I even had a skateboard.)
posted
I'd google myself but with a name like Brittany there'd be kazillions of entries. Aw, heck, I'll do it anyway...
Hmm. Apparently I took first in the discus throwing competition at the Greater Miami Conference. And I'm on the Board of Education for some place in North Carolina, a Greensboro Lady Gater, a nursery attendant volunteer, and I took 7th place in technical sketching and design at the TSA national competition. And I'm only on page 2, out of however many pages makes up 13,800 results. That's crazy.
autumnmuse: That's funny, I didn't even think of Rachel Lynde. She didn't bother me much after the first book when Anne had to apologize to her. That kind of put her in her place, so to speak, though she was certainly never my favorite character!
posted
Hmph. Google "Scott Huang" and you get a fair idea what it's like to Google my name.
I'm not sure why a Huang would pronounce their name with two syllables. And for the purpose that Doc stated, it doesn't matter how that character pronounces his own name, only how other people tend to pronounce it. Of course, you can then do something amusing with how he percieves people calling him Hu Ang. Some possible meanings could be amusing, although I suppose that it is possible you could interpret as simply being a name (a rather strange name, but a name).
posted
Hm. I've never bothered to do that with a character before. I mean, as we can see, there are frequently more than one person with a name. I can understand wanting to make sure a made up alien name isn't a real word, but trying to come up with an untaken character name seems...unecessarily difficult.
Don't worry, Survivor. I pronounce Huang correctly in my head, tone and all.
In my Rampion story I struggled to find a name that sounded distinctly germanic, but not like an aging opera diva. That, in conjunction with this thread made me think about the way a name can conjure an instant image of a character. Take Ender's Game as an example. "Hot Soup" Han Tzu never has a physical description, but you get a clear picture of the kid, don't you?
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