posted
I understand that language is a huge part of what makes peoples/cultures what they are. For example, in the language spoken by the Inuit peoples of the Arctic circle, there are several (I've heard something along the lines of 100, but someone debunked that. Point being, there are quite a few) words for 'snow,' whereas there is no word to express thanks, because the culture insists that any member of the society help another member, and the helping party does not expect thanks because they expect to be treated in kind if a similar situation were to occur.
Now, that has to do with a question for a race that came to me as I was reading the two-page-long Alien Language post; if I had a race that communicated only through shifting harmonies (the idea is that, like birds, this race can produce two distinct tones at the same time. I've heard that there are Tibetan monks that devote their lives to learning this ability, which would play in later in the novel). Therefore, in order to communicate, human delegates must always be in pairs--I've got several potential plot-lines forming, and one of those has humans as a servant class to this race. Those with the most musical talent (therefore the most skilled communicators) would have the highest role within the servant class.
Basically, this a brain-storming thread. I tried to start writing a story based on a humans-as-equals-attempting-to-communicate plot, but that failed. Hence the ungodly hour of this post.
Please, any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
Sounds like an intriguing concept. I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for in the way of brainstorming, but it sounds like something I'd love to discuss.
As for your plot, it sounds like you're discarding the easier plot line. Going with humans as a servant class is going to require some weighty backstory/exposition, whereas "we came, we discovered, we tried to figure them out" is more staight forward. That being said, though, the other has far more potential: Why are humans a servant class now? Did we get conquered? Are we colonizing and just ran into them and are now getting by as menial workers on an already settled planet? ... Lots of fascinating possibilities, but it sounds like your story is set well-along in the timeline, so the exposition would have to be handled deftly.
As for the method of communication, I think it's an incredible idea. I assume from what I gleaned from your post that at first, several (2 or more) humans are required to act as a single communicator, and later in the story you bring in a person (people) capable of creating multiple tones by themselves. I'm not an expert, but I've been interested in Mongolian throat-singing for the past few years, and have learned a good deal about it. I'd be happy to share whatever I know. I'm the only I know that listens to it (my son says it makes his brain bleed, and my roomate has threatened to kill one of us if I don't use headphones), so it would be nice to have someone to discuss it with. Let me know.
posted
Wow, what a clever bent to take with that concept! I love the must-have-a-partner-to-communicate thing. Now THAT would produce some interesting dynamics between partners, wouldn't it? You might be able to take that in a couple of different directions, if you wanted to make a character story.
-One communication partner dies, and the other has to find a new partner with the same "dialect", quirks, etc.
-A communicator's partner discovers that his counterpart is involved in something underhanded or dangerous or political, or something that endangers everyone else.
-A communication partner dies during an out-of-the-way trip, leaving the single survivor to try and make his way back to a place where he is capable of talking to people, without the aid of communication.
-Two partners have a fight (or a romance), and have to work together nonetheless.
-One partner begins to go a little crazy for whatever reason, but the other can't stand to work with anyone else, so he does anything he can to cover it up.
Or something else like that, or a combination of ideas.
If you put the focus on one or two characters rather than the big sweeping idea, you can get both across pretty effectively. My WIP deals with a multiple-universe setting with massive amounts of interracial and interspecies interaction, but that acts more as a backdrop to my characters' struggles, rather than the main focus.
posted
A synthesizer could also do the harmony. Given _current_ tech levels, I think it would be easier to use 2 people if in addition to harmony, the alien language required the same sorts of sounds a human mouth makes.
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Those are basically where my thoughts are headed: two or more humans required to make the appropriate sounds, the aliens themselves can form only vowels and some sibbilants (I'm not using a bird-like race, here, but we just got a parrot and I'm constantly aware of how adorable it is when he tries to make sounds that are beyond his ability), the story would focus on the relationship between two singers--one who, as Jeraliey suggested, is involved in something potentially underhanded. I'm not sure yet whether the aliens are our captors on earth itself, have encountered a small human outpost, or whatever. That's going to take some thought (as this entire story is, it seems).
A synthesizer couldn't work because, as you say, vowels sounds are required. I don't know how familiar anyone here is with music theory but, if you're a singer, have you ever tried to produce all eight tonal variations between (for example) c and c sharp? There are some very sadistic choir directors I've had that have forced that on us (if you live in the Chicagoland area, PLEASE don't sign your kids up for the Chicago Children's Chorus. They sound great, but the director is evil incarnate). Basically, the alien language requires such subtlety in tonal variation that only some very skilled individuals would be able to produce them at all.
onepktjoe, if you wouldn't mind, do you know of any good online or print resources in regards to Mongolian (Ach! Mongolian. I feel like such a dork for saying Tibetan...) throat singing? That would be great!
Thanks, everyone. This is starting to take shape in my head into something that might actually work as a story!
Don't feel dorky. Tibetan Buddhist monks use throat singing in their prayer chants also. The Mongolians (Tuvans, actually) claim their people began the practice, but who knows?
If you google throat singing, you'll be able to keep yourself amused for hours, but here are a couple of links that are a good place to start:
If you'd like some larger examples, drop me an email and I'll send you some.
Another thing you might want to look into is Inuit throat singing, since it requires two or more people. It's more of a breath and sound game than actual singing, but some areas use it for story telling, as well. Before it was banned by Catholic priests about a hundred years ago, two or more women used to sit facing each other, lips almost touching (no doubt what inflamed the priests), and use each others' mouths as resonators. It's not done that way anymore, but it still has an interesting, other-worldly sound to it.
posted
Would there be anything stopping the human whose partner is involved in illegal activities from just alternating between parts, assuming one of the aliens was patient enough? Or is the range too great - must the partners always be one man and one woman to accomodate?
Does a trombone or violin slide give the aliens an instant headache - or epilepsy?
Having learned to comprehend one or another alien dialect, a Navajo kid starts taking orders from his translations of an owl's hoots . . .
This topic is impossibly rich. Good luck with your story.
posted
Wow. I'm really quite jealous of that idea and all the rich social possibilities and culture you can spin from that. The theory you were talking about with Eskimo words for snow and forgiveness is called "linguistic determinism." It's most famously explored in the book 1984, and it's debated by linguistics a lot, the language-as-culture thing. Fascinating stuff. I already want to read your book.
Posts: 189 | Registered: Jul 2005
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That seems like an interesting idea. I'm still a little fuzzy on the details so I'll keep this short.
One of the courses I teach is on the phonetics of speech. After we go over how the human vocal tract forms vowel sounds, we also usually cover throat singing and speech for singing. If you have specific questions about plausible alien speech production mechanisms, or how humans might interface with such beings, feel free to email me.
If you're into the idea of learning more about human speech production, I can recommend either "Vowels and Consonants" or "A Course in Phonetics", both by Peter Ladefoged.
posted
> A synthesizer couldn't work because, as > you say, vowels sounds are required.
We have music synthesizers that can produce harmonics. We have speech synthesizers that can produce vowel sounds. I have difficulty believing it would be impossible to combine their capabilities to produce a harmonic vowel sythesizer.
posted
That said, it's certainly plausible for the aliens to have a religious (or other) taboo against mechanically produced speech, which would then require humans with the abilities you're talking about in order to avoid offending them.
Posts: 1517 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Here's a complication. What if the aliens can only hear sounds that are out of normal human auditory detection range (ie dog whistle). We would NEED mechanical methods, or very special humans.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Aug 2010
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posted
...or the aliens could be afraid to give human servants synthesizers because maybe a servant in the past managed to turn one into a tazer. I mean, if you can modify an electric shaver into a tazer...why not a synthesizer? Sort of like in the Middle Ages serfs weren't allowed to have swords. Just an idea. Posts: 189 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
So far, I've constructed the alien society in such a way that the upper class is constantly subjugating the lower class members of the society--prior to the discovery of the humans, the aliens constantly struggled internally. The aliens have issues with eye contact--because of the nature of their language, it is more important that the listener and speaker be able to hear eachother properly. There would thus be special rooms for important conversations, to which only the upper class aliens would have access. These rooms would be acoustically balanced so that--depending on the number of people intended to converse--only two or three spots in the room would allow for anything other than muddled conversation. Therefore, if the room were constructed so that three people (aliens) would be able to participate in a conversation, servants and such-like would be able to walk around the room, but hear only some sounds or, perhaps, a horribly echoed jumble of words. Because the alien language consists (mainly) of vowels, with few consonants, the starting and ending points of any word are determined by pitch--echoes would make differentiating one word from another nearly impossible.
Because the aliens are so classist--I'm not sure yet whether upperclass aliens have some marked physical difference (because they're musical, I keep getting this image of birds with special plumage setting them apart, but I don't like that method of creature construction "Well, see, it's basically this really big bird...". I'm kind of worried that that's the direction my brain is taking this)--they determine that certain tools, etc, are fit only for the upper class. Therefore, when humans arrive, they become the lowest class, and the low class aliens restrict all but the most menial utensils from their use (therefore, no synthesizer. I hope that works).
Anyway, the way the pairs of singers function is that they sit facing eachother so that they can communicate visually with gestures, etc. Therefore, the singers can tell eachother where the conversation is going, and match eachother perfectly.
As such, the singers can form the basis of a human resistance--because the alien language is completely auditory and relies on visual signals and gestures not at all, they don't realize that two silent humans can be communicating.
The concept of music as art is not completely foriegn to the aliens, but the concept of an instrument is. Therefore, a trumpet would seem implausible to them.
I'm thinking that music, to them, functions the same way that poetry does for us. Perhaps, later in the tale, the aliens see humans talking as a new art form and they employ speakers to sit and talk, using (of course) the most guttural and harsh sounds they can produce, which would seem--to the élite--an interesting and novel art form.
Does anyone see any glaring inconsistencies that I'm missing? I know I'm going to have to work very hard to construct this society as believable, as well as making the humans' role believable as well. That won't work if there's something completely amiss with what I have right now, though.
---------- Wellington
Edit: Grammar
[This message has been edited by 'Graff (edited July 19, 2005).]
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