posted
Survivor and a few folks here have been following along my progress or lack thereof.
For the others I've been trying to get the opening for a novel right. I'd written a draft of the first four chapters and the basic outline is pretty well decided, but I found the opener needed a lot more work before progressing.
No sense continuing until the opener can hook readers more consistantly. But no sense trying to finish the hook if the first couple of sentences turns people off entirely.
One of the directions to go would be to open with a core psychological conflict before getting to the complexities of setting and action. I don't need an opener which shrieks "Romance" too loudly for male readers but I need one which opens with raw POV. This is the line.
"I married a man who did not love me though I had been bound to him from my earliest childhood memory."
posted
The problem is that it plays too heavily on the ambiguity of "love". And thus it is completely unclear what you're trying to say. Which means that you are not succeeding in opening with "a core psychological conflict".
Yes, a lot of that has to do with the differences in what men and women are likely to mean when they say "love". Even more so the differences between what children and adults are likely to mean by the term.
Reading this, I'm instantly prepared to deal with a POV character who thinks she's so empathic that she knows what men are feeling. And thinks that feelings are very important. Therefore, as the judge of human feeling, she's quite the important person, isn't she?
Frankly, I'm probably wrong. But that is my initial reaction to the line. Not that I would instantly stop reading. I've read enough "woman's fiction" to be used to it. To the point that I don't need to be told certain things in the first line.
The stereotyped girliness of the expressed concept aside, I think that the line is strongly written.
posted
I think the line is just fine as it stands, as far as I can judge that without knowing anything else about the rest of the story.
If I were you (which I'm not, so take what I say with a grain of salt), I would just write the story, and then go back and worry about these kinds of fine details after the first draft is finished. Maybe, in the course of writing the story, a natural voice will develop before you get to the end of the first draft. If so, that's a good indicator of what style opener you should use. Or maybe not.
As far as the line itself is concerned though, it works as a hook for me, and it doesn't make me think, "Oh brother, chick-lit. I'm done with this."
posted
I agree with the above advice: write it first, then come back and make a good begining.
My reaction to the begining as is, however, makes me want to run away in horror. I am a woman, but I hate romances, so if that's essentially what it is...you might want to ignore me. But after this first line, I'm already dreading long, heart-broken sighs and long, wistful discourses on what "love" means. I'd suggest replacing it with another word: hate, indifference, apathy...something to show that he didn't love her without saying "love" in the first line and making some readers roll their eyes.
posted
I find the line puzzling. Unless the core psychological problem is that this woman thinks a long engagement to a man 'should' or 'must' engender love in him, I don't think it works.
That aside, you are getting some excellent advice here. Complete the novel, then worry about the opening. Constant redrafting of a partially-completed work is one very effective way of never finishing it.
If the opening two sentences of a novel were all-in-all, make or break, then agents and publishers wouldn't ask for any more than that--certainly not for several chapters. So relax a little!
posted
I have no problem with the line you've got here. I don't immediately think "chick-lit" either, nor does it turn me off straight away or make me think it's going to meander through a lot of self-loathing and angst before the story gets going good. Hard to tell with it out there all alone and out of context, though.
I have to control the impulse to fiddle with my opening ad infinitum, so I have to agree with wetwilly's advice (and remind myself of it constantly).
Don't bait the hook until you've got it tied to the line, the line spooled on the reel, the reel mounted on the pole.
Edited to correct the original source of the advice. Sorry, wetwilly, I always check it, but sometimes still get it wrong.
[This message has been edited by Warbric (edited October 01, 2005).]
posted
I think the line stinks. But it's not the estrogen marinade that puts me off, it is all the gristle.
quote:I married a man who did not love me . . .
This is a wonderful turn of phrase. The POV character is doing the marrying, the man is not doing the loving. It grips the reader with clarity, emotion, and cadence.
quote:. . . though I had been bound to him from my earliest childhood memory.
The style in the second half of your sentence is exactly the opposite of the first half. "Though" is and instant brick wall. It forces the reader to anticipate that what follows will be a reason the man should love the character. But the phrase doesn't do that, it explains why they married, not why he should love her.
"Though" also spoils your nice cadence. It is one chewy syllable that takes six letters, most of them silent. The first half of your sentence used crisp lyricism like "married a man", the second half uses chewy words like "though" and "earliest."
The second half of the sentence is also passive voice. Passive voice may be exactly what you want here, since it begs the question "who would bind her to a man in her early childhood?" But if that is your intent you must write carefully. It takes skill to lead a reader into a passive phrase on active sentence. Perhaps Hemmingway could tell you how to do it, but I can't.
posted
Hmmm...I liked the contrast in form myself, but it heightend the ambiguity and melodrama of the content a lot for me. So we've basically covered a lot of ground, reactions are all over.
I suppose that's what happens when you encounter any line completely devoid of context. Just like the biblical quote in that one opening, which even if you know that scripture by heart still seems ludicrous when taken out of context like that.
So go ahead and write, then look it over with that perspective. Writing is good advice, I should take it more often myself
posted
'Though' is a difficult word. This was the previous version of the line and I tried it with 'though' and the semicolon:
I married a man who did not love me; I had loved him from my earliest childhood memory of the time I was given to his family.
Playing with this voice to see its limitations in the dimensions of active vs passive, bold vs timid, mature vs childish, confident vs fearful, stoic vs histrionic has been an awakening experiance. I think that establishing the voice itself will determine whether this is a major or minor conflict and how its consequences will be large or small.
It is good advice to finish the story, but in defence of dithering the last story was written from the POV of a teenager who had been shot and left for dead. This story will never work if his and his wife's voices bear too much resemblence.
quote:I am a woman, but I hate romances, so if that's essentially what it is...
I dislike romances as well, unless they are disguised as bloody warfare novels. (Enemy at the Gates comes to mind.)I tried that in the previous story, so now I'm trying to do the opposite.
Posts: 245 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Reading that line, I'd know the book wasn't for me--and I'm male. That doesn't mean it wouldn't appeal to some male readers, or even most. I can't vouch for them. The reason I don't like it is because it's too romantic, and that's what you feared. But don't let that stop you. Write the story, then go back and figure it out (as others have said).
Of course, this is coming from a reader who finally dropped the Robin Hobbs series (can't remember the title), because to me she made the male characters think as women would think and that finally drove me crazy.
posted
Hey, don't knock 'chick-lit'! Up until recently the only female writers I'd read with any regularity were Connie Willis and Margaret Atwood, neither of whom of course produce 'women's' books, in the derogatory sense of that word. (Incidentally, although the SF community all hoorayed over Atwood's novel The Handmaid's Tale (1986) it completely ignored her recent work Oryx & Crake, and yet this is a brilliant SF novel! Sure, Atwood vehemently denies ever having written SF, but there's no way someone can write such an effortlessly SF book such as this and NOT have a deep understanding of the conventions of SF. Personally, I think she's a closest sci-fi fan, only she doesn't want the stuck-up literary community to find out, coz she knows they'll disown her!)
Anyway, where was I... oh, yeah, chick books. An ex of mine turned me on to Jane Green. The packaging is like a million chick books that the London publishers churn out. I roll my eyes and avoid them. However, I humored my ex and gave her a try - the book, not the ex! . And, man, but I was gobmacked when I read her first novel Straight Talking (1997) . I thought, wow, if this is what 'women's' books are like now, then bring it on!
So, back to keldon:
quote:"I married a man who did not love me though I had been bound to him from my earliest childhood memory."
It's the word 'bound' that, for me, jars the rhythm of the sentence. As for those feeling the first half of the line works, but the second doesn't, then perhaps turning it into two sentences will work better:
"I married a man who did not love me. This, despite my being bound to him since childhood."
posted
Still doesn't work conceptually for me. Why should their being bound since childhood be expected to make the man love her?
Posts: 245 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I don't like the sentence. I found myself agreeing with Doc Brown's clinical explanation, although I'm not sure if that's what put me off. Mostly, I found the sentence plain confusing. The first part, "I married a man who did not love me..." was fine. It sets up immediate conflict of a character-oriented sort. It sets up a character story. It makes me expect this novel to be about a woman who married a man who did not love her and that all other plots will be secondary. It doesn't necessarily follow that I expect romance. The second part doesn't negate this expectation, but it doesn't continue to draw me in. It's the kind of thing that's going to require a lot of up-front exposition to work out of or risk leaving me unsatisfied with the presentation of information.
Some good advice: Don't spent the rest of your life going over the first few paragraphs or first chapters. Write the dang novel, all of it, and you may be surprised to find out at the end that you have a better handle on how it has to begin. You definitely need to iron it out perfectly before submitting it, but worrying about it now will more than likely make you crazy.
posted
IMO, I don't think you should worry too much about the gendering of the line. If it's SF, I think I can say your core audience is going to be mature enough the blow right past it without giving that aspect much consideration.
I do agree that "though" is a problem because as a reader, it made me disconnect for a moment. I suggest you substitute the word "because", so that the line flows through linearly, and work from there.
posted
The word "becuase" completely changes the meaning of the sentence. I don't think it can be used here.
Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:One of the directions to go would be to open with a core psychological conflict before getting to the complexities of setting and action. I don't need an opener which shrieks "Romance" too loudly for male readers but I need one which opens with raw POV.
"I married a man who did not love me because I had been bound to him from my earliest childhood memory."
This does that. Simple. Clean. Any further clarification can be made in subsequent sentences/paragraphs.
[This message has been edited by Sariel (edited October 04, 2005).]
posted
Well, if you end up making the first sentence say the opposite of what the author intended, it's sure going to need a lot of clarification later on.
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posted
But...but...but...but...it's a lie. Assuming she was telling the truth before, at any rate. You can't lie or you will lose the trust of the reader and never gain it back. This isn't even like the one-sentence pitch after the book is written which will often skim the surface of what the book is about to the point that it is misleading (you can always clarify later, and you still can't actually lie). This is the first sentence of a book, and whatever it says it must say clearly and accurately. There is already quite a lot of information we need to know without finding out that we didn't actually learn anything true in the first sentence.
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posted
You don't think that "I married a man who did not love me though I had been bound to him from my earliest childhood memory." might lead to "a core psychological conflict"?
posted
You sentence doesn't turn me off because of content, but rather because of form. Perhaps the sentence could be split in two. I also wonder if the "bound" concept isn't too disconnected from the love/marriage concept. How were they bound? By her love for him? I'm guessing that they weren't literally bound together...in book form or something. "I married a man who didn't love me. However, even my earliest memories are of loving him."
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quote:Well, if you end up making the first sentence say the opposite of what the author intended, it's sure going to need a lot of clarification later on.
You have a point there, but it's not really clear in the unaltered version what the author intends. Does she love him? Is this binding an emotional one from her perspective, or a more ritualistic, cultural thing?
And I think Bumbler has a point also, that another option could be to split the idea of the sentence into two sentences. the cadence might work better.
posted
I think that 'because' would have turned things too close to his POV. He didn't love her because they had been raised together and psychologically he felt she was his sister. (Another cryptic anthropological reference here for Survivor is the 'Kibbutz exogamy' phenomenom. )
'Though' is her POV as she never developed the same kinship misperception. Much of the first chapter works on the active/passive dichotomy. She's not lying, but how that occurs is rather complex.
quote:The reason I don't like it is because it's too romantic, and that's what you feared.
Sigh. I don't like it either for the same reason.
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posted
I don't see anything romantic in it unless stupid acts is synonymous with romance.
I'd just go with. "My husband didn't love me though I'd been bound to him from my earliest memory."
Childhood is unnecessary as it's implied. The I married part also implies it was he actions which brough it about. Now if that is part of the conflict leave as is, otherwise just the simple statement is enough.
posted
Someone has a weird definition of romance. The first line is not romantic at all, just the opposite, in fact.
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posted
Put romance in quotes if you would. I'm just trying to find out if it comes too close to a sterotyped "romance" genre opening for non "romance" readers to tolerate.
[This message has been edited by keldon02 (edited October 05, 2005).]
posted
No, it is not at all typical of the romance genre.
But then again, I wouldn't go and try to decide, based on a single sentence, what genre a book is in. I'm much more likely to look at the back of the book or just go browse in the section I'm interested in. Is this in the scifi section? Great. Then all this first sentence tells me is that your main character has personal problems. It also tells me she's a woman, which unfortunately turns some men off, but as an author I've dcided to deal with that by ignoring it.
Write your story the way you like it or it will never sell because you'll never finish and even if you do you'll hate it too much to pitch it.