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I know, I should google, but most of the references I found on the net were evasive. Is it possible to have a dust storm in a rocky desert (Moroccan regs, for instance)? Thanks in advance.
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True. The main difference is that a storm in a rocky desert is a good deal less dangerous. This is for two reasons, one is that there is readily available shelter and the other is that storm patterns in a rocky desert are erosive rather than depositive, so there isn't as much chance of getting buried or anything like that.
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I thought more of something that, while less dangerous, would obscure the vision and make it hard to get bearings. Is it possible, or do I have to fall back on sand deserts?
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Ok, thanks Mike and Survivor. Now my main character will be able to get lost in a rocky desert :-)
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Believe me, it's very easy to get lost in a rocky desert even without a sandstorm. You can't easily navigate by the sun, if you're anywhere in the tropics, and unless you have obvious landmarks (which would tend to be distinctly shaped mountains), then one ridge or dip looks a lot like another. Plus if you're following things like slot canyons, or even wadis, they twist and turn and you can easily lose track of where you're heading. And then there are the distoring effects of mirages...
[This message has been edited by tchernabyelo (edited October 03, 2005).]
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Actually I hadn't even thought of that (shame on me, I spent some time walking in a rocky desert around last Christmas). My MC is supposed to be a trained guide, though, so he knows the terrain. I wanted something to confuse him a little more.
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Rain is very good at throwing off desert guides. The overcast sky prevents taking direction from the sun or stars. Also when it rains in the desert, it usually pours. Sheets and sheets of dark gray curtains of rain. Such rain is good for shifting some rocks, especially if they were on the edge of a drop off. Rain removes tracks and changes the landscape due to run offs and flash flood ravines. Also rain is followed by a quick bloom of color. The sight of dense and sudden plant growth will throw off someone used to the golds and browns of scrublands.
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Rain in rocky desert canyons is prone to causing flash floods... and a flash flood is death if you don't scramble quickly to higher ground. It can be on you before you know it. You also deal with lightning strikes.
I live in Eastern Oregon, much of which is considered high desert. It's rocky and hill-laden, and there are draws and little natural vegetation on the hills beyond sagebrush and scrub oak and juniper trees. It's dry in summer, and parched conditions produce cracks in the earth which can twist an ankle or break a leg if you aren't careful. Periods of heavy rains in spring or fall can unsettle the rocks and cause sudden rockslides.
You can most certainly be blinded by blowing dust. While it's not the all encompassing "fog" of blowing sand, dust in high desert will have particles that can get in your eyes and make it hazardous to keep your eyes open. Steady winds are a hazard in some canyons. I live in the Columbia River gorge, and the wind is like a wind tunnel on some days. Vegetation is the only thing that keeps dust levels down. On the days dust storms are bad, it hangs in the gorge like smoke, coloring the air a dirty brown.
Another hazard in this high rocky country are rattlesnakes and (less often), scorpions. There are always black widow spiders and brown recluse spiders, but we've pretty much covered those in a different thread. Cougars are not unknown, and neither is an occasional bear. Coyotes are aplenty.
There are enough hazards for the unwary in this type of country that surely you'll find SOMETHING to foil your protagonist's journey.
I might advocate again for anyone who has a character who is an experienced outdoorsman, tracker, and guide to read anything (preferably everything) written by Tom Brown, Jr. His first book, called "The Tracker" is an autobiography in how he became a tracker. You will find a wealth of information about HOW an experienced guide reads his outdoor environment.
The bottom line is: if your guide is highly experienced, trained outdoorsman, rain and blowing dust won't phase him or make him lost. Be sure you are aware of the simple techniques used by real-life trackers and guides so you don't stumble by claiming he's experienced, yet portraying him doing something incredibly stupid that no experienced guide would do -- under normal circumstances. It also gives you a better grip on what "abnormal/hazardous" circumstances might look like.
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited October 03, 2005).]
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Thanks, Elan. FYI, I'm trying to decide whether my protag is going to be in a rocky desert or in a sand desert. I haven't done my research on trackers yet, but I wanted to know beforehand what could befall him in the desert (lots of nasty things from the look of it).
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We have dust storms here in Florida...dust blows off the Sahara, crosses the Atlantic, and blows into here...but they're not the traditional strip-the-flesh-off-your-bones kind you get in the Sahara itself.
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If you mean the character in the story that gets lost, he could lose the compass in the storm. There isn't much danger that a person will be buried alive in such a storm, but losing your compass while running for shelter/high ground and then having it get buried/washed away isn't improbable.
And being lost in a rocky desert...it isn't about knowing which direction is north. You just can't follow a bearing the way you can other places, there are always cliffs and canyons and all that kind of thing in your way if you try and follow a straight line. It isn't like a forest, where you can't easily tell north without a compass but if you have one you're fine. You can tell north just fine in a rocky desert as long as you have a sense of morning, noon, and afternoon (which you develop real fast in any desert). But if you lose track of exactly where you are compared to where you've been before, you're really hosed without (or even with) a good topographical map of the whole area. Sometimes the map only tells you just how hosed you are (oh, all I have to do is climb this overhanging cliff before nightfall and I'll be fine...).
The guy is a trained survivorist and goes into some of the most extreme terrain and survives on his wits and what little the crew leaves in his pockets. The idea is simulate an experience that a person could easily find themself in.
quote:Episode 2 - Arizona Desert The Sonora Desert in the South-Western United States covers an area of approximately 120,000 square miles. It is an arid, seemingly barren environment with scorching daytime highs and freezing overnight lows. Riding a dirt bike out into the official middle of nowhere, Les simulates a break-down scenario. He empties out the contents of his pack - half a gallon of water, a snack bar and his multi-tool-7 more days!
[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited October 04, 2005).]
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A highly experienced guide doesn't NEED a compass. He reads the land the way some people read a book. Tom Brown Jr. wrote about going into Death Valley and surviving for a couple of weeks with very little problem. I forgot what he took with him (a knife and one or two other things... not water, he distilled his own water). But he NEVER uses a compass that I can see. Tom Brown can tell from a man's footprint what his emotional state of mind was at the time he made the impression, how long it's been, whether he's hungry or not. There is a science to reading the land and he gives detailed analysis of HOW to do these things in his wilderness survival classes and in his field guide books. My brother took a class from him and was really impressed.
posted
In some rocky deserts you don't have to be IN a rainstorm to be effected by flash floods. Some of those ribbon canyons stretch for hundreds of miles, so a storm 50 miles away can bring a flood down on you, which is why hiking in some canyons is strongly advised against or banned during certain times of the year.
The rule of thumb is that if you see storm clouds on the horizon, or hear thunder (even very distant thunder) you stay on higher ground.
[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited October 04, 2005).]
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I don't need a computer but it's bloody useful.
I assume that during a sandstorm you stay still. Which means that the compass can help you orientate yourself that much quicker. Of course you could lose it, just as the guy could get hit by flash lightning or devoured by desert wraiths. It all depends on the writer.
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Yeah, during a sandstorm the guy would stay still. (and everyone else would). I don't know what he would do in the case of a rainstorm. Canyons might be a good idea. Or he could lose his compass, except he comes from a civilization that doesn't know what compasses are Posts: 1075 | Registered: Sep 2004
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A compass is only useful in combination with a good map. And if you know the sky, a compass isn't necessary even for using the map.
In a sandstorm you must seek cover, or you'll die for sure. A dust-storm would be less severe, but you'd still want shelter even if you have the right protective clothing.
posted
I thought this was earth based. Silly me! Also there are lots of planets where compasses would be useless. I wonder how well a survival guide would cope on a different planet ...hmm...
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Well, it's more like we are talking about a very specific type of terrain here on Earth (or an Earth-like fantasy world, Silver didn't exactly say that, though). For sand desert or marine navigation, a compass of some kind is almost essential (it doesn't need to be magnetic, but magnetic compasses beat all the rest hands down). For an area where you are constantly surrounded by distinctive terrain features which you must travel around, intimate familiarity with the area or a really good map would be far more important.
Compasses are most useful when there are no distinctive and permanent terrain features to use for navigation and you are able to take a bearing and simply go in a straight line. They are far less useful when you cannot go in straight lines and there are numerous permanent terrain features to use for navigation. Like I said, if you know the sky, you can find north well enough to orient yourself well enough to match the terrain to a map...if you've got one.
posted
I live near Phoenix, which is in the Sonoran desert, which is not sandy. We have dust storms every year. Why? We have monsoonal moisture brought up from the pacific ocean through Mexico. The moisture hits the heat from the valley (this is a summertime phenomenon) and causes thunderstorms. These thunderstorms are very spotty and fierce. They produce what is called a microburst, where air slams straight down into the ground and spreads radially, picking up a very very fine dust. The resulting winds are very strong, with gusts well over 50 MPH, and with the dust, they form a wall of dust that is called a haboob. It will slam through an area hard, but lasts only five to ten minutes, often with a downpour right on its heels. The dust gets over everything, and makes a royal mess out of a swimming pool. I've heard about a glass picnic table picked up and dropped into a guys pool in shards. My first dust storm took our beach ball and probably left it in Las Vegas. The haboob has varying amounts of dust. Sometimes it's just a hazy wind, other times, you can't see five feet from the end of your nose. The dust gets all over your mouth, in your teeth (even breathing through a cloth) and in your eyes. it also picks up a fungus that when inhaled can cause Valley Fever.
Hope that helps.
[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited October 07, 2005).]
posted
That is so freaking gross. Dust in my lungs, unpleasant but I can take it. Fungus in my lungs...that is not cool.
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Yeah, I forgot to specify because I thought it didn't matter. It's for an earth-like fantasy setting. Thanks for all the info. I'm still in two minds about my desert, but it will come in handy when I expand the story into a presentable shape.
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Survivor, I can tell you that you are 100% correct. It is gross.
I contracted histoplasmosis, a fungal infection of the lungs, from inhaling contaminated dust in an abandoned chicken coop. I was only five at the time, so I recall nothing of my illness but the long hospital stay.
Every chest x-ray since then sends the techs and doctors into a tizzy. Yep, permanent damage from scarring and calcifications, but no apparent long-term debilitating effects -- I ran the mile, two-mile, a lot of mediocre 10Ks, and completed a marathon, so I assume the scarring is just plain ugly and nothing worse than that.
I guess that has nothing to do with writing that scene, but I suppose it's okay to know that there may be more lingering effects of sucking in a bunch of dust than what a swig of water after a short coughing fit can cure -- were one to wish to have a character become ill later and need Sidekick or Romantic Lead to help him out or something.
(Okay, I tried to tie it back to the original idea some.)
posted
Of course, that supposition is not taking into account the dangers of bird flu, which is transferable from birds to humans. The chickens are out to get revenge.
For your comfort, I present this information:
quote:The World Health Organization has issued a dramatic warning that bird flu will trigger an international pandemic that could kill up to seven million people.
What's the difference between epidemic and pandemic? from www.wisegeek.com:
quote:The difference between an epidemic and a pandemic is two-fold. First a pandemic is normally used to indicate a far higher number of people affected than an epidemic, and a pandemic refers to a much larger region affected. In the most extreme case, the global population is affected by a pandemic.
quote:I'll unashamedly admit to not knowing anything about Star Trek except what Klingons are, so if you could explain the reference I'd be grateful
At the end of Star Trek II, Spock sent the essence of his being into Dr. McCoy. In Star Trek III, McCoy is walking around with both his mind and Spock's.
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