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Christine
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Someone made a passing comment about one of my stories that really got me thinking. They said they thought it was fun but could believe that others might find it simplistic.

This led me in two different directions at the same time. First, what makes a story simplistic vs. complex? Second, is it necessarily bad that a story/story premise is simple?


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Survivor
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The premise should be simple.

But the story shouldn't be.

Your story is the extrapolation of the premise. Guy gets trapped on desert island/Guy builds time machine/Guy meets girl/replace all "guy"s with "girl"s/replace all guys with girls/etc.

I don't really know what your critiquer meant for sure, but such a comment could mean that there were many obvious questions raised by the premise that you didn't answer in your story. For instance, you have a girl get trapped on a deserted island and have a kid, and then say nothing about how she managed to find food, fresh water, and a father for the child.

Or you explain the food, water, and father, but don't account for the fact that she's going to have to go through labor without any medical backup. Huh, you know something? When I chose the "having a kid" premise, I wasn't even thinking about you personally. Weird, huh? I was just thinking "what would make being trapped on a deserted island much worse for a woman than for a man?"

Okay, so back on topic. If a reader says something like that, ask them to explain. But when I say that a story is being simplistic, I mean that the text ignores important complications that arise naturally from the premise or its existing effects.


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pantros
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Simplistic: The story could be retold in a single sentence and not lose anything significant.

Complex: Requiring multiple plots to come together to complete the main plot.

As to when simplistic is bad? Well a story seems too simplistic if it goes on for more pages than it should to tell the story. A story can be simplistic but it can't be very long and still seem worth it. Face it, no one likes to read empty pages full of words. (Robert Jordan does appear to like to write those though).

Sorry for the digression. There is nothing wrong with simplistic if you present it well.


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Robert Nowall
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Well, if the story is too simple, the reader will see straight to the end and not need to go any further. Most ideas are basically old and used before, and often the reader is familiar with numerous variations on it. You've got to make it interesting enough for the reader to keep reading.

Think of Frodo and the quest in "Lord of the Rings": getting there is half the fun.


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Christine
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Survivor, I like your take. To be honest, what I said above was about as much info as I have so I don't know what they found simple (the premise or the story). It seemed to me that most premises are simple, or can be. Many people recommend you being able to sum up your story, even a novel, in a sentence or two. What is it about?

So I must assume that the story itself was too simple, or that this person has some weird ideas about what should be involved in a premise.

As to multiple plots all coming together...that is complex but I'm wondering if it's complex in the way I was thinking. There are many ways to get MORE: more words, more plotslines, more characters, more layers...even a single plotline can be complex, I think, if managed right.

P.S. Survivor, you hit on one of my daydreams for the past few months...not getting strended on a desert island, exactly...usually it involves going back in time to a time when all these things they say may go wrong and are no big deal were a big deal and would mean I'd die instead of getting a C-section. Yeah, yeah, but my mind works this way. That's why scifi and fantasy are my outlets.

[This message has been edited by Christine (edited October 25, 2005).]


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Survivor
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It's because getting sliced up by doctors is so...it really assaults your dignity, you know? For a very independent person, it's just such a horrible fate to contemplate.
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djvdakota
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Have you actually asked that person what his/her definition of simplistic is, and what, specifically, they found to be simplistic about the story, and if they thought it detracted from the story?

If not, DO!


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BuffySquirrel
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I think there's a difference between "simple" and "simplistic", but of course the critiquer may not have had those particular distinctions in mind.

"Simple" for me could mean using 5 cent words, basic sentence structures or linear plotting. Ray Bradbury's "All Summer in a Day", which I just read recently, is an example of a simple story. The sun's coming out on Venus for the first time. The children want to see it. They lock the most unpopular girl in the class in a closet and deprive her of the sun, which she has really missed since leaving Earth for Venus. There's no sub-plots and no particular complexity. The story goes from A to B. But it is not simplistic. It's thought-provoking and I've seen readers on both the SCIFICTION board and in the Critters volcano trying to track this story down because of the impact it made on them when they first read it.

For me, "simplistic" would be, to give an extreme example, where the story uses black and white ideas of morality, and ignores grey areas. A lot of movies are like this, where you have a Virtuous Hero and a Blacker than Black Villain, and no shades in between. (Should we allow poachers wantonly to kill all the wild animals in Africa? Obviously not. Bad Villain!)

A more complex story in that sense might be one where there is merit in both sides of the argument. Supposing both protag and antag want to achieve the same goal, for example, but have wildly different approaches to how it should be achieved. Those approaches will bring them into conflict, but the reader/viewer will have to decide which they think is 'right'. It's not clear-cut. (Should we allow poachers to take wild animals in Africa to the edge of extinction IF that is the only way they can live long enough for a new supercrop to be developed?)

Not wishing to start a debate about poaching!


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franc li
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I guess we could talk about what you could be secretly afraid that they meant.

I guess the idea behind summing up a story in one sentence is this: Does the sentence want to make you know more, or does it pretty much satisfy your curiosity.

"Once there was a magical land where it never rained... the end."


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keldon02
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They said they thought it was fun but thought others might find it simplistic? Resorting to psychobabble by way of explanation I'd wonder if they might be having reaction formation to having enjoyed a story which they initially thought might be beneath them.

It almost sounds like what happened to me when my seventh grade English teacher told me that I might enjoy "The Hobbit". Being the sophisticated worldly wise brat that I was I read the first page and decided she was patronizing me with a children's story. I finally read it about six years later and read it the 20th time about 30 years later.

I wish I could write simplistic prose like that!

"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit..."

[This message has been edited by keldon02 (edited October 27, 2005).]


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