posted
Most of what I write is firmly in the 9-14 age range, but the novel I'm working on now (Dreamers, the first 13 are posted over in the fiction fragments) is pushing it a bit I think. The characters are a little older and there is more relationship stuff. I'm in the fantasy genre, so the relationships are not the many issue, but here are my two questions:
1. how far can a relationship go and still be okay for juvenile lit. I'm not talking 1st base and so on, I mean how intense can the feelings be. If anyone is knowledgeable in this area and would not mind reading a couple of paragraphs that I'm questioning, I would really appreciate it.
2. can you market a fantasy YA book with main characters that don't swear, booze or have sex?
quote:2. can you market a fantasy YA book with main characters that don't swear, booze or have sex?
Didn't some J.K. somebody or other do a moderately successful book or two that at least started out with all of that criteria?
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posted
Of all the books which have won the Newbery Award, "The Hero and the Crown" by Robin McKinley is one that I'd question as children's or even YA. It's fantasy at quite a sophisticated reading level with some pretty heavy relationship stuff.
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quote:1. how far can a relationship go and still be okay for juvenile lit. I'm not talking 1st base and so on, I mean how intense can the feelings be. If anyone is knowledgeable in this area and would not mind reading a couple of paragraphs that I'm questioning, I would really appreciate it.
Well, easy first, until they're in love, then maybe no further than a few light kisses.
quote:2. can you market a fantasy YA book with main characters that don't swear, booze or have sex?
As pjp said, JK Rowling has already done that, though she has made them slightly more... adult in they're lives, but thats normal thing as they grow up.
You could however, booze up the characters but in a way where it will deter the YA readers to despise drinking, making your characters wake up with massive hangovers every time. Just a suggestion.
Honestly, I don't know the answer to this question when it comes to American YA literature. But the "cultural presumption of youthful purity" that informs most romance stories (even most ecchi) found in anime is a worthwhile study if you want to get a feel for whether you need to abandon the concept of "purity" for a YA oriented work.
I know that Card feels that the oversaturation with casual access to sex, drugs, and rock and roll in our youth culture deadens the sense both of romance and of adventurously skirting the forbidden. A few years ago we reached the "as long as you don't kill anyone" standard, now we've started to leave even that fragment of traditional morality behind. "As long as you didn't have a politically incorrect motive for killing anyone" is the current standard for judging the actions of fictional (and sometimes real) youth today.
I think that our culture has gone so far that you can write daring and meaningful fiction about kids with politically incorrect motives just trying to hold on to that which is precious to them. So in a sense I disagree with Card on this, the general deadening of our sensibilities creates a situation where young people can face desperate challenges and must act out of themselves. But I still think that escapist literature that shows a strongly moral culture can exert a powerful attraction on the young.
As for how strong the feelings are...kids kill themselves over the most damnfool things. Not just deliberate suicide, but things like rushing out in traffic to save an important keepsake or because of a dare. The master said, greater love hath no man than this, and I'll content myself to say the same. Kids have feelings that strong, there's no way to prove that a stronger level of feeling exists.
posted
I see that these posts are months old - may I revive the topic? I'm writing a fic that has a small section with the boys (brothers who are the heroes) as children, but when the action really begins, they're 16 and 19. They soon turn 17 and 20 and things get more intense after that. This is the beginning of a series, and the next time we see the boys, they will be 20 and 23 (in the second book). So should I bother to try the YA market, since my heroes will be adults most of the time? There is some serious violence (magical violence) and there will be romance (I'd say PG-13 to possibly R rated) in future books, so I've thought of these as adult books (not erotica, just R-rated maximum). Any info you can share would be welcome! Thanks!
posted
This is difficult. I think if you keep it pg-13 then young adult is fine and I think have characters in the early 20's would be fine if they're introduced as teens. If the story goes to "r" then I'd go adult (I don't think character age is an issue there.) But you do not want angry parents after you. The few that still monitor their young adults at least.
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posted
I don't think that it's an issue of content. YA means it's aimed a young audience, it doesn't mean that it's less "hardcore" or anything. Try asking yourself whether the protagonists have to do boring stuff like paying bills and dealing with office politics and stuff. Things that most adults take for granted as being inescapable parts of life. Do they plan things ahead and work hard (or perhaps give up personal wants) or do they always solve their problems through heroics and wild inborn talent or sheer luck?
A lot of kids will read books written for adults, and a lot of adults can enjoy works written for kids, but there's a definite difference and it doesn't have anything to do with the "rating" of the content. Yes, you'll get in actual trouble for putting too much "adult" content into something aimed at kids, but the real question is whether or not this is the kind of story that will appeal mostly to kids. Adults won't really get into a story where the protagonist always wins without consciously paying the price, kids won't like a story where success has a realistic cost.
posted
Thanks, cll! I do think it's more an adult book, but I don't want to cut off any market unnecessarily, which is why I'm asking the question here.
Survivor, you're just full of good info! My heroes survive at first by sheer luck and raw talent (they are "heroes," after all!) but they also work hard at their craft and worry about how to pay for things (although they don't have "bills" but they do need to buy clothes, sweets, books, take girls to dinner, etc.). They also have ambitions for "life after the war" which don't involve heroics at all - both want quiet lives and ordinary occupations. So does that skew them more to the adult market or keep it YA?
posted
One piece of advice that normally comes from Survivor is: Write the story first, THEN worry about your market. The story needs to be told. Don't hamper the creative process. Focus instead on developing your style, your own unique voice. The demographic will become obvious when the story has been told.
Consider "The Hobbit" by J.R.R. Tolkien; originally written as a children's book, it's become a classic amongst adult fantasy fans. Tolkien had a story to tell, he told it, and the demographic sorted itself out after the fact.
posted
Elan, yeah, that's what I've done. My novel is finished and being polished for the umpteenth time now. I'm on the "writing and polishing query letters and the synopsis" stage right now, and getting the second novel started. But someone mentioned they thought my story might be YA, and I hadn't really thought of that, so I thought I'd ask some questions about it. I do have to tell my own stories - I don't "aim" at markets, so much as I aim to tell a really good story.
quote:...but they also work hard at their craft and worry about how to pay for things (although they don't have "bills" but they do need to buy clothes, sweets, books, take girls to dinner, etc.).
To clarify, do you tell us they "work hard" or do you show them working hard? Are their expenses regular and a normal condition, or are they mostly worried about special or "discretional" spending? It looks like the answer to the second question is definitely more on the kids side of the line.
Anyway, on points I'm going to say that it seems likely that you do have a YA oriented story with some cross-generation appeal. So make it something that most parents will let their kids read. Books differ from movies. You can do "R-rated" stuff that most parents will regard as reasonable in context. If you've read any of Card's work, you'll see this distinction in action. Ender's Game would be his classic 'YA' novel, of course. It's important to note that Ender never plans ahead, he always comes up with a brilliant solution "on the spot". Whereas in Ender's Shadow, the much younger Bean is constantly planning ahead, weighing his assets against his liabilities, never trusting to luck or his personal valor. The two books cover the same events from the perspectives of two children, but one is definitely more YA and the other (from the younger child's perspective) is definitely more oriented towards an adult outlook.
Anyway, you've got the story you've got. You can learn from Card how to make most kinds of content acceptable to parents (the ones who have concerns about that kind of thing). And they provide some nifty examples of what separates a YA story from a story that will appeal mostly to adults.
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