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Author Topic: A Christ figure?
Hygge
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My question is, can a person who turns out to be covertly evil be characterized symbolically as a Christ figure (younger, self-sacrificing, humble, wise, benevolent, etc)? I’m not talking about a religious character, but I am envisioning a central character to my story who outwardly possesses the before mentioned qualities, but we find out in the end he’s pure evil.

The reason for my question comes from a chapter in the book “How To Read Literature Like A Professor” by Thomas Foster. Maybe I’m late to the party and this is a “must read” for all students of the English language, but if you don’t know this book-it’s a fantastic read.

One chapter in the book identifies the Christ figure in many classic works of literature. I realized as I’m setting up my character that I’m symbolically making my person a Christ figure, but should I if he’s going to be evil? Your thoughts on the matter are welcomed.


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Spaceman
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You're the writer, do what you want.
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pantros
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Rule #362 on writing clearly states:
Characters who appear to be abundantly benevolent must maintain that aspect throughout your story.

I'm kidding. There are no rules as to what you can or cannot do with your characters. The trick is to make it believable and interesting.

There are several cliches which are best avoided if you ever want to get published. These are the few things that could be considered "cannot-do's" but your idea is not one of those cliches.

Good Luck!


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Silver3
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Same as Spaceman.

FYI, Dorothy Dunnett's "The Disorderly Knights" has a character, Graham Mallett, who seems to symbolise Christian goodness and has many traits of the Christ and of the saints, and who later turns out to be pure evil.


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Christine
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Why shouldn't you? I'm not really sure I understand the problem. I don't think you're suggesting that Christ himself is evil, just that someone who looks, on the outside, to be that good *could* be evil on the inside and I totally buy that.

Professors of English Literature will undoubtedly play with the symoblism in your book. But writers should not typically try to mess with their own symbolism. It mucks up the story.


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spcpthook
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I've known several people who do a very good job of making themselves everybodies friend and putting up a front that fools most people until you get to know them better. When true colors come out the underlying personality ranges from pure BS artist to pure evil. Not sure I've met any I would describe as pure evil but this is fiction right? These people exist in real life so why not write them?
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Christine
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Wow, a flood of simul-posts!

One more thing -- Did I mention that I hat esymbology? Especially Christian symbology?


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Aalanya
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Wait... by "Christ figure" do you mean somebody who is just a really good person (possessing all the characteristics you mentioned) or do you mean somebody who sacrifices himself for the good of the majority? Just clarifying because the latter is the definition of "Christ figure" that I typically come across.

I can definitely see a character who looks great on the outside but is evil inside. Those kinds of characters can be quite interesting. If that's what you do I don't necessarily think that your character will be identified with Jesus, since the Christ symbolism is usually in self-sacrifice and not just in "being good." But in general it sounds like a fun concept to work with.

I could also see an interesting story where an evil character ends up sacrificing himself for others. It might be hard since you'd really have to get into the mind of the character and figure out his motivations, but it would definitely be interesting. You'd get the symbolism there, though how people interpret it depends on what exactly this character does. But then, the question is, can a character who sacrifices himself for the good of others really be evil? Or is your character sacrificing himself for evil reasons even though he appears to be good?

[Heh. So my rambling led me to the following concept: a man who leads a perfect-looking life and then sacrifices himself for what appears to be a good cause, but then later we find out that by sacrificing himself he gained supernatural powers and is now coming back as some crazy undead guy. Alright, I'm gonna stop now.]

Anyway, just looking for clarification. I think whatever it is you wanted to do is perfectly legitimate. Each person who reads it will have their own interpretation of the work. Some of them may be completely wrong, but that's something we all have to deal with in our readers.


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Jammrock
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I think in this case Hygge is refering to some sort of "Messianic figurehead." Someone who the people think will lead them to peace, love and happiness ... only to turn out to be pure evil.

I think it's a perfectly valid thing to do. I have a story in works that covers the exact topic, though not exactly the same way.


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Aalanya
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Ah, ok, I could see that. My response is still the same: go for it.
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nitewriter
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Just a suggestion - you might want to get hold of some of the books by Joseph Campbell - if you haven't already. He writes extensively on "god" figures as well as evil and the power and influence they exert through myths. I think his books would be of great help, if nothing else they would fill you with ideas and possibilities.

[This message has been edited by nitewriter (edited April 21, 2006).]


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Hygge
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Thank you for your suggestions and comments. I guess my question centered around writing styles and conventions. I should have known that Fantasy and SF writers already think “outside the box,” so much so that the question may have sounded absurd.

I’m thinking of a character that brings “peace” with money. If one were a billionaire, for example, he could end a lot of suffering. The symbolism would not be religious (as in a dove is released into the air when the character’s introduced) but subtle enough to give the impression that he is a Christ figure (once again, as defined by Foster). However, the peace he brings would serve only himself and cause terrible pain to others in the pursuit of his selfish needs.

Just a thought. I’ve enjoyed your thoughts. It’s given me a lot to think about as I begin to introduce the character.


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djvdakota
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Just as long as I (as reader) don't get to the 'evil' part in the last chapter and go, "Hey! Wait! This guy's the BAD GUY?!?"

There has to be at least some foreshadowing that he's not entirely as he appears. One way to do this is to make him somewhat 'too good to be true.' Readers NEVER trust that type.


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wbriggs
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There used to be (maybe still is) a whole genre of novels in which there was always a pair of men, either of which might end up being the heroine's love interest, and one was evil and one was good and you couldn't tell which was which.
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Survivor
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Aalanya has hit on the essential issue here, that a person who is beloved rather than sacrificed by the community is not a Christ figure.

The Christ figure has its roots in the messianic writings of Isaiah and other prophets, who clearly state that the annointed one is a scapegoat (another practice of ancient Judaism established by Moses), that is, he accepts the blame for all the sins and afflictions of the entire community, and then is punished to expiate the sin (ancient Israel did this with actual goats, which were driven out into the desert to die).

The person you're talking about is clearly an anti-Christ as described in Revelations and in some of the ancient prophetic writings under various other prophets by such monikers as "abomination of desolation". This is the opposite of the messiah, who "hath no form nor comeliness". The Christ figure is defined by innocently bearing the blame for the entire community.

quote:
He is despised and rejected of men: a man of sorrows, and aquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The anti-Christ is the exact opposite of this pattern, he seems good on the outside, he's acclaimed and regarded as the hero, but in the end he betrays those that follow him to death or hell.

Now, this doesn't mean that you can't do a flawed Christ figure. In Death of a Salesman, Willy Loman is clearly a Christ figure (you can use the term scapegoat if you object to the religious imagery, though "scapegoat" has lost most of its meaning over the centuries), and the entire point was that not only was his self-sacrifice insufficient, but it was destructive to those he was seeking to help. Lesser examples of flawed Christ figures abound, it isn't novel territory.

Nor is the anti-Christ neglected in popular literature. In fact, you might be better off leaving the overtly religious imagery off, if you haven't been exposed to overdrawn "anti-Christs" in your survey, you're quite lucky. Just have a guy that pretends to be Mr. Wonderful but is in fact Mr. Selfishlyingbastard. We've all met a few of those in real life.


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CoriSCapnSkip
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In real life a lot of cult leaders see themselves as Christlike and so do their followers. A book with enough shock in this respect could turn out a classic.
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Robert Nowall
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On wbriggs's comment...there are also a lot of adventure novels where the (male) hero is confronted by two women---one good and pure and the other deliciously evil.

On Christ-like characters...well, to put it in an overly familiar way, Aragorn son of Arathorn is a Christ-like character in the sense that he's the Messiah, the Redeemer, the One who will come and renew the kingdom and the people. But Frodo Baggins is also a Christ-like character, in the sense that he takes the sufferings of the world onto himself, and the world is saved because of it, but he is not.

Which "Christ-like" character did you have in mind?


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Matt Lust
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Messanic figures abound in all types of literature be in a western tradition or otherwise.

In fact quite often in stories by the Norse, Greeks and Native Americans among others the most generous characters are the most deceptive (think the trickster motif with characters like Loki, Coyote or even Zues) and their generousity typically is of shallow things like a good meal or a pretty dress.

The more benevolant characters almost always are rather stingy with material benefits but in the end their gifts are always the more important ones.


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Mystic
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A person will see what they want to see. If they envision a person as Christ-like, they will and only seriously overhauling a character will change that. You must make the character the person that fits your ideas or story and not worry what people will think. That last sentence is quoted from an afterschool special.
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Robert Nowall
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Y'know, Gandalf might be considered a Christ-like character, too. First, he's the guy who the other characters believe knows answers to their questions. Then, also, he also went through death and resurrection. (Does "resurrection" have one "r" or two?)
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franc li
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Theologically, I think all people who aren't actually Christ struggle with being evil, so all literary Christic figures are evil. With the exception of the cute little robot in A.I., who was genuinely good and pure and really boring.

I guess this is a good place to mention my obsession of the week which is FDR, who I consider quite a moral puzzle. Was he America's Savior or our forbidden fruit? I think he had an interesting story arc at least as far as Eleanor goes, since she was apparently the only person who didn't know that he stayed with his first mistress for 40 years.

Another idea is some kind of really codependent mother who sacrifices her life for her kids but makes them pay through the nose for it. Though her evilness may not give much in terms of twist ending revelations. Maybe she has a law degree but never practices in order to have kids but at the end of her life presents them with an invoice for her billable hours.


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KyleT
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Lots of Mr. Card's books have similar characters. Lost Boys, Shadow series (Achilles), Worthing Chronicle (Abner Doon). Some are mysterious until the moment of truth, and some are known by the reader all along but decieve characters along the way.

I deliberately left out the bad guy in Lost Boys as to not spoil it. The others are known all along.


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Doc Brown
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I don't see the problem here.

An ancient Greek could say that the New Testament is just a story in which a character named Jesus is a Prometheus figure. Would it bother you if a Prometheus figure turned out to be evil?


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Susannaj4
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Is this a clearly defined 'good vs.evil' story?

I agree with survivor that what you have described is the anti christ, but maybe I'm missing the point.Because I also got a picture of Annikin Skywalker. Doing everything for the sake of the Empire. Thinking that is the correct path, but in the end, he finds that it was all for nought and he's trapped.
He was the chosen one. He even though he didn't intend it that way, he became evil.

I can't relate to Aragorn being anything like a Christ figure, as far as I'm concrened the jury's still out for me as to whether Christ had sex. Aragorn clearly was in love with the elf. The 'human' affliction of lust didn't seem to affect Frodo. So I can see that he might be considered a Christ figure.


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Robert Nowall
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Aragorn, Gandalf, Frodo...it's a matter of divvying up the attributes and giving each share to one character.

The character played by Andy Griffith in "No Time For Sergeants" was also a Christ figure, in that he was completely innocent and unstained---the Lamb of God, if you will. So there are a lot of attributes to pass around...


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Survivor
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What part of Prometheus isn't evil?

As for Aragorn, he doesn't have sex either, at least not during the movie (there was that kiss, though). And saying that Christ didn't experience lust is like saying that he didn't experience hunger or pain or fear. How is it meaningful to resist temptation if it's not even tempting to you?

As far as the jury being out, I happen to...um. You see, I know this guy, and he's pretty sure that, you know. Because, like...what with his...um. And so there you have it


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