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I have a question for the group. How strict are you when you write about not putting prepositions at the end of sentences? If I’m reading a sentence (like the subject of this post), or even hear one, and the preposition falls at the end of a sentence, it’s like chewing on aluminum foil. I find it’s becoming an issue with my latest project. The story is contemporary, but I want the characters (some not as educated as others) to sound authentic.
I asked a friend who I consider very English grammar savvy about this rule, and she considered it to be outdated and old fashioned. Am I being too sensitive? Just wondering….
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When I write, I don't worry about it. When I polish I do.
Writing is far more simple than people make it out to be. Just write, sometimes its okay to break the rules, usually its not. It's good to be aware of the prepositions and passive voice and overuse of words, but all these are things to clean up on the polish. It's more important to get what's in your head out.
But, once you have been through the polish part a few dozen time, you will make simple grammatical errors less often just in the way you think and create sentences.
Be aware of the rules. Don't worry about them until you've got the story out, then polish it. Then prepositions at then end of sentences is one of the rules to not break if you don't absolutely have to. I'd lump it in with passive voice. Stuff that is written in passive voice is bad.
[This message has been edited by pantros (edited April 28, 2006).]
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When writing dialog, the rules of grammar do not apply. People who speak in perfect grammar will not sound natural. Readibility is still vital though.
Posts: 370 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I'm pretty picky about correct grammar (I hate it when I'm reading and there are grammar and punctuation errors), but there are a few grammar mistakes, like ending a sentence with a proposition, that don't bother me as much. Sometimes reconfiguring a sentence so that the preposition doesn't fall at the end interrupts the flow of the language and can make the sentence sound awkward. So in a case like that, I figure that readability trumps the rule.
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I don't consider ending a sentence with a preposition ungrammatical. It's informal, but I don't write formally -- for example, I also use contractions. And, as Winston Churchill is alleged to have said (more or less), rigidity about such things is something up with which I will not put!
[This message has been edited by wbriggs (edited April 28, 2006).]
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I echo what was said above - if it's in dialog or if it fits with the style/tone of your piece, then I don't see a problem.
Posts: 116 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Thank you for the opinions. I saw a bank sign coming to work today that said "The Neighbor you can borrow from" and it struck me as poor grammar.
Thanks Rahl for the link. It helped. I think OSC answered the question I had in the back of my mind. I've just noticed that I'm seeing these situations in writing and I wondered if other writers (such as yourselves) noticed the same thing,and if they did, does it bother anyone.
I guess I need to not get so distracted by it. Thanks again.
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My mother in law teaches AP English and she says dangle them all you want. It is no longer a grammar error. Or atleast the AP test does not view it as one. I was also informed cactuses is now a real word (it is cacti!!!). Latin is dead!
Posts: 303 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I'll use them when I'm writing in the flow, but then I'll feel uncomfortable with them and find a way to rewrite the sentence so it doesn't need it but doesn't sound convoluted. I'm kinda obsessive about it. I know it doesn't really matter, but I've been doing it so long I can't change.
I'll use them in dialogue though. "Dialogue don't count"
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Winston Churchhill isn't the source of that quote, and the quote is "This is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put!" The amusing thing is that it would be perfectly sensible to say "I shall not put up with this sort of arrant pedantry!" Indeed, now that I've tried putting it in plain language....
Putting a preposition after the noun it should reference is grammatically incorrect, it doesn't need to be at the end of the sentance. It's just that when it's at the end of the sentance you can be sure it wasn't placed before the referenced noun the way it should have been. But sometimes the referenced noun is implied by the verb and the preposition (Card mentions this). Still, it is "correct" to go ahead and mention the noun after the preposition. Leaving the noun out makes the sentance into a fragment, technically.
Reading what Card has written, he's using a lot of examples where the "preposition" at the end is actually a different part of speech...so that undermines his argument a bit.
As for whether it's acceptable, my standard is whether it creates confusion as to the meaning or sounds unnatural when you say it. That's pretty subjective, but so is any artform, and English writing is an art. I use sentence fragments, split infinitives, yodas, whatever I think gets the point across. I've never been one to worship at the altar of grammar.
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