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Author Topic: Inquiry: Writing for the opposite sex
TruHero
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Elan's post about male emotions, got me thinking...

Here is my question:
As a generalization, do you think it would be easier for a female author to write in a male characters voice, or a male author to write in a female characters voice?
This is taking into consideration that it isn't easy to pull that perspective off correctly.

I have never done it, because it is easier to keep to your same sex when writing your main viewpoint character. Although, I think it would be good practice so the characters in your stories that are the opposite sex would become more real.

Perhaps, if you are going to answer this question, and it isn't abundantly clear by your board name, state your sex, just so we can keep your answers straight. Also, elaborate why you think the way you do, and throw in any other necessary bits of wisdom that will allow other males/females to understand the finer points of writing for the opposite sex. Make your answers as short or elaborate as you wish. Maybe as a sidebar you could state whether most of your main characters are your same sex or not.

I am kind of torn on this one, as there are so many points that contirbute to characterization. But I am leaning toward saying that a female writer might do better with a male perspective. For the record, I am MALE.

**note: no battle of the sexes is intended, it is my hope that we can glean some helpful info about the male and female perspective. We have discussed crying recently, and other portions of this before, I'm sure, but this could be interexting... no?


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Beth
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I write characters, not genders. I've never really understood why some people think it's difficult to write from the POV of someone whose anatomy is different than theirs. I'm not saying this is something people don't struggle with - just that I don't understand the struggle.

I haven't done a statistical study of my work, but my impression is that I've written roughly equal stories from male and female POV.

characters. not gender.


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RCSHIELDS
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Some writers are better at writing opposite sex character than others. I don't think the sex of the writer is the issue I think it is the willingness of the writer to do the work, calling on as many rescources necessary, to make characters believable. The writer also needs to be receptive enough to accept and incorporate constructive input. This forum is an excellent sounding board for writers to gain necessary insights to write believable characters.

I believe this is a skill that can be learned. Whenever I write something from a female perspective I'm lucky enough to have a wife and two daughters that are willing to read it and keep me on track. They tell me I'm getting better. (Obviously this is indicating that I'm male.) I also believe that developing your rescources is an important part of writing.


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hoptoad
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Bloke here.

For me its a bit like trying to write from the perspective of someone in another culture. I feel like I am competent with the broader, universal themes but flounder with the details. As it is often the details that lend authenticity to the piece, feeling insecure about their veracity can seem like an impossible barrier to deal with.

I would say though, that if you pick your details well, you need less of them to be more effective. Choose a person you know well and trust and base the details on discussions with them. That way you are less likely to fall into the traps that can accompany stereotypes and more likely to give this character a fuller nature. In a pinch you can always call the person and ask 'hypothetical' questions.

Learn from Margaret Mead who was a famous early 20thC anthropologist studying the peoples of polynesia. She wrote a fantastic book about the society of Western Samoa with its exotic peoples and strange sexual behaviour of teenage girls. It was a sensational hit, titilating the public and capturing the interest of the scientific community. Now, however, we know that she relied heavily on information from a small group of teenage girls who took delight in telling 'tall tales' to the naive white girl. Today, that element of the book is generally discreditied.

Moral? Pick someone who wont give you a bum steer.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited May 14, 2006).]


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TruHero
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Just a bit more elaboration.
I'm not saying that I couldn't write a main character that is female. I'm saying that to really sell it, you would have to dig deep and think like and have the same emotions/reactions of a female, (in my application). Which could be difficult, what with me not being female in any portion of my life.

Females and males react differently in specific situations. Getting those reactions and emotions correct in those situations, to me is important. I've seen it done well, and not so well. I've even had a person submit a story for critique, that I didn't know at the time was a woman. It became apparent to me that the male character in whose POV she was writing, was very feminine. In the critique, I said that her character seemed feminine, that is when I found out that the author was female. She responded to me and said that she was having trouble with the male perspective.

I have plenty of female characters in the stories I write. I have just never had my main POV character be female. I will need to do that somewhat in the story I am working on because there will most likely be some chapters from her POV.


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Elan
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For Beth: it's not about the anatomy. It's about the mindset. The reality is that men and women think and behave differently about some things.

It's important to be self-aware enough to realize when you've come to a point in your story that, perhaps, someone of the other gender might make different choices.

My observation of men who write as women: if the man has preconceived ideas of what women will do or think, based on HIS MINDSET, then the stories come across as false sounding. I've seen stories that show women in caricature, where you take all the worst stereotypes of women (nagging, does everything based on attracting men, doesn't think rationally) and make that into a character.

It would be like if I took all of my male characters and turned them into beer-swilling, crotch-scratching, emotionally disconnected pigs. Are some men like that? Undoubtedly there are a few. Is a character based on that stereotype going to come across as "real"? Not likely. Men, like women, come in a spectrum of personalities and behaviors.

The men who write great women characters (and vice versa) are the ones who understand that people have more on their minds than attracting someone of the opposite sex. They write each gender as deeply complex characters with all the potential to succeed (or fail) as the other sex has. And most of all, they avoid stereotypes like the plague. At least, if they want to attract intelligent and thoughtful male AND female readers.

For the record, I be female.

[This message has been edited by Elan (edited May 14, 2006).]


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x__sockeh__x
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I can connect with either gender (myself being female). Yet seeing as though I'm not extremely feminine or masculine, it's sort of an either or...doesn't really matter to me.
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Shendülféa
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I'm female, but my main characters tend to be male. I don't know why, but it may have to do with the fact that the majority of stories I read tend to have male main characters. Perhaps that's an influence, perhaps not, but when I'm coming up with a story, I almost always picture the main character as male. There have been few exceptions, but they are almost always offset by another main character who is male.

Then, maybe the reason I write male MCs more often than female even though I'm female, is that I tend to be a tomboy...? Then again, perhaps both things contribute--or more things than I'm aware of. *shrugs*


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MightyCow
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I'm a man, and most, if not all of my POV characters are men, because I know how to write from a man's perspective. I can write a story off the cuff from a male POV, and the voice is correct.

If I'm writing a female POV, I have to really consider what the character might or might not do, what she might think or say or feel, and I find that it gets in the way of my story telling.

I think that also, since I think as a guy, my stories naturally come from a male perspective. How would a man get out of this situation, how would he react? I could write a story from a woman's POV, but I feel that to do it justice, I would have to put a ton of time and effort into it, and completely rethink the entire flow of the story from the start. I'm willing to do that if ever a story comes to me and I know it needs a female POV, but so far it hasn't happened.


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CoriSCapnSkip
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There are a LOT of reasons it's easier for ANYONE to write about a man and harder to write about a woman!
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Kickle
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I enjoy Charles De Lint's novels and short stories, but I have wondered how he is capable of writing so often and so well from a woman's pov.
Myself, the worst thing a collage professor asked me to do was write from a man's pov--I was totally stumped since I had grown up in a family of women and not spent a great deal of time with men. Now, after a ton more experience with the male species and after being married for years, I feel comfortable about writing from a man's pov. However in the novel I've been tinkering with I tend to use male pov's for active/physical scenes and women's for emotional ones and my main character is female.
Edited to clarify that I am female.

[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited May 15, 2006).]


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arriki
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Writing the opposite sex? How about alien characters?

Unless they are really humans in alien suits, that makes the male-female question really easy in comparison. You can research, talk to subjects, etc. But to portray truly alien characters...how do you do that? Are the ways to do so similar to writing the opposite sex or other human cultures (aside from being ABLE to do research)?

I find that starting out with their more normal human type aspects and then adding on bit by bit their less understandable aspects works better than hitting the reader all at once with the true alienness.

[This message has been edited by arriki (edited May 15, 2006).]


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colorbird
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I find writing very young and very old men easier than in the middle. I used to never write men MC's, and lately find myself writing from the male POV more. Reading men's reactions to things from critiques and forums such as this one helps a LOT.

Men do not think like women, and it's really obvious in books written by men, especially when describing sexuality/romance. I've seen very few who describe the woman's POV in that area accurately.


(edit: I'm female)

[This message has been edited by colorbird (edited May 15, 2006).]


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tchernabyelo
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I'm male.

The majority of my writing is done using a female MC/POV character.

I'm not aware of any reader, male or female, who has had a problem with my main characters. I like to think that this is because they're fully rounded individuals. Fully rounded individuals tend to be believable as characters, whether or not they fall into a reader's expectations of what a male or female person "should" be like. It's only when you don't know someone that you demand they fit into the stereotypical boxes (this goes for different cultures, and bny extension even alien protaganists, as well).

Write somebody whole, and they will be believed, whether they are typical or not.


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Tanglier
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quote:
I write characters, not genders. I've never really understood why some people think it's difficult to write from the POV of someone whose anatomy is different than theirs. I'm not saying this is something people don't struggle with - just that I don't understand the struggle.

Because there are gender related issues that are worth writing about; like whether to go out alone at night in a given neighborhood or society; to future plans, vocational, academic, or parentwise; not to mention rape and the quality of attention that occasions attractive or unattractive women is different in kind than the quality of attention that goes along with being an attractive or unattractive man; to social constructs concerning promsicuity, all of these considerations inform the aspirations and regrets of a character.

Now if your story is about a meteor hitting the earth, it doesn't matter as much. But if your story is about people living and regarding each other as both fellow humans and sexual beings, then yeah, there is a difference. (Even in the meteor example, the fact that most geologists are men used to working in all male environments who may or may not be comfortable with the feelings aroused by working around women is going to change the dispositon of the characters.)

I don't think that it's wise to throw out the effects of 2,500 years of gender based social conditioning, including the asymetrical facts of biology, and how they effect the quality of a person's character.
___________________________________

I write crappy women. If I write a man and just change the name, then the woman doesn't feel right, and if I write a woman, she is boring, or the singular type of gal I'm drawn to, who is great, but I'd like to be able to write more than one kind of woman. I'm fixing this by reading more books written by women about women.
___________________________________

One of the reasons why writing compelling women is subtle, hard work is that the drive for public greatness isn't expected of women. It's a man's domain. Whether right or wrong, I think it's the case, and most compelling protagonists, for me, usually act in public and with noble aspirations.
_____

All of that "just write the character regardless of race or gender" is wistful BS, and I think that it ends up with every character having the sensibilites of different versions of white men.

[This message has been edited by Tanglier (edited May 15, 2006).]


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sholar
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When writing fantasy, I tend to go with male characters (I am female). On the rare occassions I write modern, I have female characters and for sci fi, a bit mixed but more heavily female. I think this is because my fantasy worlds are a bit patriarchal, which limits what the woman can do and still be within their society's rules. I do sometimes have ideas for woman in these settings and write them, but most of my ideas start with the guys, and then some girl they interact with develops an interesting story and so I will tell it. When I write, I end up figuring out most character's back stories in detail, even if they just show up, say one or two lines and then go away for the rest of the story.
I tend to not write romance, but in my list of story ideas, I do have some story ideas from both male and female perspectives, so we'll see when and if I ever get to them how that changes my perspective.

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Kadri
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Well, I'm female, and the (fantasy genre) story I'm working on now has a male main POV character, but he's a unique character, not an everyman type, so I never think "What would a man do here?" I think "What would Guta do here?"

I think the main thing to remember is that while men and women are different, they're also individuals. The worst thing you can do is to fall into stereotypes.

For example: I play World of Warcraft, which has mostly male players, some of whom play female characters.

You can generally tell when a female character is played by a male because he'll take the "female" thing waaay over the top based on stereotypes for pornography, sitcoms, and stand-up comedy.

A female playing a female character, on the other hand, generally won't say or do anything particularly feminine.


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wyrd1
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Male.

I have written mostly male characters simply becuase I'm a guy and I generally don't dream of being a woman and that is where my stories come from. For me it's not difficult to write from such a perspective because I do have a feminine side and no longer reject it. Add to that an inexplicable ability to interact with females on a social level and being married for over three years, I believe I understand women better than most men do. What's strange is I'm a large framed male and very capable of doing harm, yet people often see me as a nice guy add that I listen more than speak and BAM!. This let's me into the mindset of the opposite sex; from their everything is as easy as it gets.
Women are no more complicated than men, just different. We are all human though, so if all else fails and you can't nail down the right perspective because of gender ask an expert.(a member of the opposite sex)


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Ray
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I'm male, but I don't have a problem writing from either sex. It usually ends up being half and half on who I'll tell the story from.

I think part of this stems from growing up with four younger sisters, and I've made an equal amount of friends with females as I have males. The one thing I've noticed is that no woman is the same as another, just as no man is the same as another. So while it is important to note the different behaviors between the sexes for realism, it's just as important that a character doesn't act simply because it's what's expected from their gender. What makes a character realistic is why he/she as an individual made the choice that he/she did.


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Elan
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quote:
You can generally tell when a female character is played by a male because he'll take the "female" thing waaay over the top based on stereotypes for pornography, sitcoms, and stand-up comedy.

A female playing a female character, on the other hand, generally won't say or do anything particularly feminine.


Bingo. That is EXACTLY right.


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pjp
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quote:
A female playing a female character, on the other hand, generally won't say or do anything particularly feminine.
Interesting. I wonder why that is. In real life, the females I've met do at least something that is feminine. I've not been around anyone tomboyish for long, so can't really comment on them.

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Survivor
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Currently my ability to write a human female is a bit more developed than my ability to write a human male. Typically the POV characters in my story are thinly disguised non-humans, but where I've made a conscious effort to write from the POV of a human, I've been more successful with females.

I haven't noticed that anyone really picks specific gender issues when commenting on the plausibility of my characters, though. I think that it's just easier for me to remember the basic limitations of a human when I'm thinking about a human female. I also probably have a moderate edge in terms of experience with human females as opposed to males, females are generally more open to talking about their feelings and specifically more interested in talking to me. Not that I find them particularly more trustworthy than humans in general, but it's easier to sense discrepancies with a larger set of data.

I think that men have a much higher tolerance for implausible depictions of men by women as long as those depictions are not "girly". On the other hand, I've noticed that often men will find a very plausible portrayal unacceptable if it is too "girly". So probably the "girly" issue is independent of plausibility. And a lot of men will automatically throw that accusation at any male character written by a woman, one very real reason that women often use masculine pen names.

I have to wonder if my answer would be different if I were female. I think that if I were female, then I'd have even less opportunity for frank communication with humans males than is currently the case. On the other hand, I suspect that my overall experience with human females would have been less positive as well. So I guess it's good that I'm not female.


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pooka
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<--female

Unless all of your characters are actually you, or at least the protagonists (which for some reason reminds me of Ayn Rand) some kind of creative extrapolation is going to have to occur.

I think the description of someone's character and thoughts has to occur in a space where the reader can access it as well as the writer. To me, that means it wouldn't be so detailed as to have no flexibility. That is to say, you don't have to be so accurate.

And I think people are more alike than they are different. Particularly people who share common values apart from their gender.


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Corin224
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So, it looks like I may break the mold here a bit.

I'm male. When I have a character defined in my head, it doesn't matter what the gender, I can write them fairly well. I don't find myself falling into stereotypes. However . . . I have a MUCH harder time inventing interesting male characters than female characters. In fact, my default tends to be to create female characters for any given storyline. Only once I start playing with character or plot choices, do genders get assigned. So . . . at the core of it, I'm a man who's most comfortable writing women.

I think part of it is that I'm quite introverted, with a personality very heavily biased toward schizoid tendencies. (Look at the fancy word . . . they way it was explained to me, it just means that I escape very deeply into my own imagination as a default behavior.) The other part is taht being a healthy young male, I'm quite fascinated with women. Consequently, I've spent a lot of time imagining how women with various motivations will act in certain situations. I've spent a lot of time watching how the women around me ACTUALLY act on their motivations. Then I've spent a lot of time reconciling the two. I guess you could say I've spent a fair part of my mere 28 years studying women quite intensely. That and 6 years of marriage have made me quite confident that I still know nowhere near all there is to know about what makes women tick.

But I know a hell of a lot more about what motivates women than I do about what motivates men.

Mainly, it's 'cause I just don't care about men. I care how INTERESTING men act . . . how ADMIRABLE men act, and there's so few of those, I haven't had much opportunity to study them.

So . . . long and short . . . an irrisistable hormonal drive, coupled with an overactive imaginary world has given me the ability to write women better than I write men.

I think.

-Falken224 (posing as Corin)


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Kadri
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quote:
Interesting. I wonder why that is. In real life, the females I've met do at least something that is feminine. I've not been around anyone tomboyish for long, so can't really comment on them.

Well, I'm sure the female players do feminine things in their lives, but when it comes to playing WoW, your sex isn't really that important.


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