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Author Topic: Realistic military in ancient/fantasy setting
AstroStewart
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After posting my first 13 lines in F&F, the conversation about some things that I need to fix in my novel lead towards a discussion of the military way of thinking vs. civilian (my MC is an officer in a militaristic organization but didn't really think like a soldier would/should). Since the discussion quickly lead to a question I had in a more broad sense than just pertaining to my novel, I thought I would post my last post/question here:

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What with not actually knowing anyone who served in the military during a time in history where combat required leather armor / chainmail, swords and horses, archers, etc, what I'm finding my story really lacks is the detail about the daily life of being a soldier (well, an mid-lower officer really) in such a time.

Trying to search online has lead to a decent number of sites about actual combat using these weapons, but even though my MC is a soldier, the main plot of my story doesn't actually involve a large scale war or even a large scale battle, as much as it involves maneuvering around a "headquarters" type area (is headquarters even the right term? It sounds too modern) and making it seem realistic. Even though the majority of the story takes place away from any large group of soldiers, the portions that DO take place at this "headquarters" are vital to the story and quite climactic, and anything that sticks out as too modern, or just plain wrong is just going to ruin the mood and the story.

That being said, does anyone have advice on what site / book / movie / TV show / anything displays a credible setting for soldier life and soldier encampments for a fantasyish/historically low-tech setting?

I know a "military historian" would be a Godsend, but I don't happen to know any, or any way of going about finding one who would be willing to lend me their time.
Thanks


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pantros
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Read the diaries of Julius Ceasar.

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pantros
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Ceasar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars
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Ray
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Black Hawk Down by Marc Brown and Flyboys by James Bradley are pretty well done military histories. Then there's the movie Patton. It's not concerned with an ordinary soldier's life, but it's a very well done account on how one type of military leader behaves.

I know these aren't historically low-tech, but they are good references into military life, and from taking history classes, there are some aspects of war that are timeless.


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Survivor
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It sounds like you're looking for logistical details. I'm afraid that we'd need to know a lot more about the particulars of your milieu to know what those details would be. I recall a particularly good book, Island of Ghosts that deals with a heavy cavalry Auxilliary sent to Britain during the late stages of the Roman Empire (when it was still based in Rome). They aren't Romans, and the setting isn't Roman, so there are about five major cultures depicted, with different concepts of...a lot of things, including proper logistics.

"Headquarters" refers to a general command post, in ancient (pre-automobile) times it would have refered to the quarters of the commander (sometimes it still does). As an obvious coinage, I don't think that you need to worry about using it in your story any more than any other English word. You might be talking more about a station or post, though.

Your story is outright fantasy, with fairies and stuff, right? You might want to look into Eastern medieval military systems to supplement your research. Of particular note would be feudal Japan, but the vast material wealth of the Chinese also produced some interesting evolutions throughout their history. The concept and often practical use of "magic" is more apparent in Asian military development during the relevant period, which is why I mention it.

But like I said, information about the details of logistics for soldiers in a given milieu come from the general milieu. Regular soldiers often have access to fairly good but not quite top notch goods, particularly in a milieu where the general level of wealth is very low and economics are based on...protection arrangments as much as or more than on currency implements. In that case, entry into the regular military is very competitive or perhaps exclusive, probably a mixture of both. Another way of understanding that is to remember that in many ancient militaries only the officers (nobility) were dedicated military, the mass of troops in wartime were drawn from the servant classes by conscription. An imperial military could be considered as a special case of continuous use of the wartime model but with more economically sustainable means of recruitment and an allowance for advancement from the ranks. Conditions for the rank and file wouldn't be as bad as for those in "mobilized serf" armies, but they still wouldn't approach the conditions for gentry or whatever you call 'em.

Basically, you need to define your society and its overall standards of wealth and poverty, as well as the relationship of your particular soldiers to their own society and to the local culture. Then you can begin to answer most of your questions.


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pooka
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War and Peace the book. I haven't seen a movie adaptation of it. There is also the Civil War documentary series. A point that is made in War and Peace is something about the military being a profession at which a man gets paid by being idle. I think. I forget who said it and why.
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arriki
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Try Mary Renault's books about Alexander the great and the one about the Pelopenesian (sp?) wars -- Alexander -- FIRE FROM HEAVEN; THE PERSIAN BOY; FUNERAL GAMES. And...THE LAST OF THE WINE. She really made ancient Greece and Macedonia come alive.

A neat book I have about details of ancient warfare is ALEXANDER THE GREAT AND THE LOGISTICS OF THE MACEDONIAN ARMY by Donald W. Engels.

Have you read any of Benard Cornwell's Sharpe novels? Set in the Peninsular War against Napolean. A lot of what happened is not too far removed from ancient warfare and Cornwell does a fabulous job of making the day to day life on the battlefield during and between battles REAL!


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AstroStewart
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Wow thanks for all the suggested reading. Now it's just a matter of me sitting down and actually reading them lol.
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djvdakota
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Read LOTS AND LOTS of history--both fiction and non-fiction.

Non-fiction because it's usually more factual (although often dry as a bone to read), historical fiction because someone else before you has already done that research and has put what they've learned into a published story--an example for you to learn from.

Also keep in mind, this is fiction. You only have to be as accurate as your readers will believe. If you work on improving your skills of believability (OOH!! Great armor idea for Munchkin!), you can pass off almost anything to your audience.


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Pyre Dynasty
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There was a great series on PBS about the great battles of Britain. It had actors pretending to be soldiers of the time being interveiwed, as well as renactments and a guy with a magic (bluescreen) board that showed the lay of the land. The guy was usually standing on the actual site of the battle. It was well done and probably some searching around the PBS site would turn up a name.
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Isaiah13
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For historical fiction, I would recommend:

Steven Pressfield:
Gates of Fire
Tides of War

Michael Curtis Ford:
The Ten Thousand
Gods and Legions
The Last King
The Sword of Attila

For Military Fantasy:

John Marco:
Tyrants and Kings (trilogy)

Glen Cook
The Black Company novels


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Jammrock
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This is tough question to answer, as a lot of what the answer is depends on the type of army and the time period.

Most battles that involved swords to muskets rarely lasted more than 45 minutes. The battle usually only lasted 15-30 minutes. It wasn't until the modern rifle was invented that soldier could fight for extended periods of time because most of the physical effort was running, and not wearing heavy armors and swinging around weapons. The best trained warriors/soldier could fight longer, but the average soldier usually couldn't. This would be a typical midevil Europe battle, or pre-Sparta/Alexander the Great era combat...

Battles typically invovled cannon fodder, i.e. poorly equiped serfs turned soldiers, trying to force the other army to pull forward their cavarly/reserves. The first group to release their calvary/reserves was the army that got too tired to fight and lost.

There are of course exceptions. The Romans and other very organized and wealthy groups turned every soldier into killing machines. Thus the Romans ruled the world. In the case were you have Roman type battles (or you could argue Spartan-like battles and armies), the winner was usually decided by the best strategist, or by numbers. The ancient battle of Thermopylae is an excellent example of the what a group of expert warriors and a genius tactician can accomplish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae


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Survivor
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A quibble, the reason that battles lasted so much longer after the invention of the modern rifle is because it effectively abolished the charge as a plausible method of winning a battle (it still happens, but it's quite incredible). So most of the physical effort was expended digging, not running. It was only after the development of mechanized warfare, which expanded the physical size of the battlefield, that this changed significantly.

Close quarters battles are very tiring for anyone. The massive amounts of adrenaline CQB releases will exhaust your stamina in a few minutes whether or not you actually do anything. The only way to avoid this is to be in an entirely different class from your opponents, such that there isn't a realistic possibility of them killing you anyway. Or at least to believe you're in a different class. Which might only get you foolishly dead.

The intensity of low-tech battles will probably have an impact on the mentality of your soldiers, but it doesn't mean that much to their daily life.


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AstroStewart
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On a related note, (and I'm going to apologize for my complete lack of knowledge here) since the case in my novel is not that there are actually any large scale battles, what does the military do in peace time? (specifically in the past, middle ages, etc)

While I'm sure they don't just sit around twiddling their thumbs, I really don't have enough of a grasp on what day to day tasks they would be up to without a big bad enemy on/in their borders to fight.

In my particular case, the military in question is actually planning to assault one of its neighbors, and building a big nasty magical weapon before they make those intents apparent, but this buildup is secret, meaning most of its soldiers, including my MC, are going about the "normal routine" for peacetime until the higher ups tell them otherwise. Which would be ... what? Training?

(That's the problem with not being a big fan of history, in general. Any time I need/want to know something historical, I'm essentially starting from square 1.)


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djvdakota
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Depends on your society. Sometimes the soldiers would go home and go back to their farms and shops. Other times the soldiers would be put to work building the kingdome, as it were.
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arriki
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Drinking and whoring, too.

The more formal armies like the Roman and Macedonian drilled quite a bit. There was always another skirmish happening. Peace was not all pervasive in ancient times. A lot of soldiers were mercenaries. They just pulled up stakes and went looking for the next war. Never a lack of those.


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Kadri
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There's an interesting Grimm's Fairy Tale called "Der Barenhauter" (the bear-skinned man) which begins with a man being discharged from the military at the end of a war. He goes home, but his only relative is his brother, who just tells him to go away, and he ends up making a deal with the devil to get money because he doesn't have any skills outside of combat.

It might not answer many of your questions, but it's really interesting, and reading interesting and tangentially related things always tends to improve a story.


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Survivor
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I mentioned this before, but the bulk of an ancient wartime military would have been conscripted from the lower classes. The peacetime military would likely form a sort of lower nobility, sometimes all of the nobility in more basic feudal systems.
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Jammrock
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I would say a lot of it would depend on the society.

Spartans were soldier-citizens, and combat was your life. During times of war the citizens (I believe you had to be a soldier to be a citizen, otherwise you were a servant/slave and had little to no rights) became warriors. During times of peace they had a trade (like a smith, or a mason, or a farmer) but maintained a strict training regiemnt. There was of course a standing army.

The standing army, and this was true in most pre-industrial/rennisanse societies, was also the police force. So the standing army would man watch posts, forts, patrol the roads, keep order in the cities/towns, etc.

In the futile era (midevil Europe) the standing army consisted of the officers (nobles, and your noble rank determined your rank in the army) and conscripts, which were essentially a level between serf/servant and nobility. More like a skill work position pulled from people of low birth.

Rome made being a soldier a job. You joined, you trained, you fought, and if you lived, you got to retire with honor a little bit of maney before you joined the workforce. In this case, and if there are Roman historians here you can correct me if I'm wrong, your rank in the military and government determined your social status, not the other way around like fuedal times. Money of course spoke volumes, too.

Then of course there are tribal barbarian like soceities. In this case there would be no real standing army.

Day-to-Day life in the standing army I imagine would revolve around duties and taverns. Maintaining equipment, patrol, watches, gossip, playing dice (or whatever), drinking, whoring ... and if they were high enough in rank and old enough, maybe a family. If your country/nation/kingdom was preparing for war you could add drilling and training. Either doing the drilling, or teaching others how to march/drill/train. Beyond that I wouldn't think your duties would be very different unless you had a "specialty position", like a spy, scout, strategist, map maker, officer or whatever else you can come up with.


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AstroStewart
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Thanks for all the great info. Some of it I had already surmised, but most of it is relatively new information to me, and will help me figure out how the military in my novel in particular will play out. I'm thinking it will be more like the Roman army in the idea of soldier being a job, and earning high rank earns your social status and not the other way around. In the history of my world, the land/kingdom just recently overthrew (is that even a word? past tense of overthrow) their ruling class, so the people in charge when the novel takes place don't have a line of nobility to speak of. That is, a few generations back they were all more or less slaves (or at least servents.)

In any case, thanks for all the great info. If anyone thinks of anything more that could help feel free to continue the posts, but I *think* I have an idea where to go from here.


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Survivor
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Just because the nobility isn't "old", that doesn't mean that they aren't nobility. A lot of kings in history weren't the son of a king, and the same is true of your lesser nobility as well. Kings (and others) who proved incompetent in war or governing tended to lose their positions, at least until the gentry no longer had any connection to either pursuit.

Being noble in ancient society didn't involve having what we would consider good manners. In fact, if you look at the way languages more closely related to a feudal society are structured, it becomes apparent that the "good manners" of the nobility consisted of being free to tell everyone else to F___ O__ without fear of repercussion. Gentleman were courteous mainly in the sense that it was pretty damn stupid for peasants to take offense at anything a noble might say. Where the nobility spoke a different language from the peasantry, this resulted in a permament division between polite and vulgar terminology. English bears the marks of such a history.

It's true that a more recent nobility would be less likely to indulge in affectations than the nobility they'd overthrown. But the affectations weren't an essential part of belonging to the nobility, as shown by the fact that the nobles who affected them got overthrown

Besides, you're talking third or fourth generation nobles...that's a long time relative to ancient nobility.


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arriki
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Remember also that a soldier/warrior is also a member of an extended family. What said man did off duty in small regimes reached out to his family and vice versa. The son of a weaver might have brothers still in the trade and go home when not on duty. His sisters might have married into other clans...there would be an entangled set of relationships that might affect his military service.

Say John was the son of a weaver and his sister (who was a great beauty) became the mistress of a lower ranked noble who had an ax to grind with some other noble or government policy. John commands a small contingent of the night watch and arranges to "look the other way" when something bad comes down for his sister's lover's enemy.


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Gwalchmai
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I know I'm a little late but I thought I'd add a few bits and pieces myself. My information is mainly concerned with the Roman army of the middle to late Republican period but there might be some bits you can use.

First off I would suggest reading Caesar's Gallic Wars. This is an online copy, although you might be better off getting a hard copy because there is quite a bit of it and it could get annoying reading it in the format presented. That said, you could possibly find an easier to read online copy.

You might findPolybius worth reading. Starting at 6.19, if you work your way through it you will get a fairly detailed account of the Roman army of the second century BC. He takes you through how soldiers were allocated, how the army was put together, the weapons and armour of the different types of soldier and officer, and has a quite detailed section on camp layout, including measurements, what was inside and how guards were placed and security maintained (I should warn you that this is more of a field camp than a permanent city barracks). He then has a little section on military court and punishments, and on the military awards that could be conferred. This is quite easily read on the Perseus web site because it splits the text into nice, neat sections and there isn't all that much to read. It sounds more detailed than he actually is but even so there is a great amount of information there and he is definitely worth reading.

Lastly, of the ancient authors I would possibly recommend Josephus' Jewish Wars. It has a fair amount of military information in it but also a lot that possibly wouldn't be of interest to you. Mostly, the military side is to do with manoeuvres and operations in the field but there might be some bits that would help you out. I wouldn't say this was something you should definitely read, only if you're interested, and the same applies as to the Gallic Wars with regards format.

Of the fiction writers I would recommend Valerio Massimo Manfredi. He's an Italian historian and archaeologist, and has written several novels based in the ancient world and dealing with the military aspect of it. They have plenty of interesting details here and there.

When Roman soldiers weren't fighting they were building roads. When they weren't building roads they were building aqueducts, and when they weren't building aqueducts they were building monuments, amphitheatres, temples and suchlike. The military not only won Rome's empire but they built most of it too. They were also involved at certain times in Rome's history in firefighting and peacekeeping within the cities they were based in.

[This message has been edited by Gwalchmai (edited May 19, 2006).]


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Jammrock
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Forgot about the construction part of the Roman military. Essentially the Roman military did everything in their power to keep the soldiers occupied so they would get lazy, fat, weak, and cause lots of local trouble.
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Gwalchmai
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One more thing to say about possible alternatives to headquarters but I wanted to go back home and check my Greek dictionary first before saying something that might have turned out to be completely wrong.

For me, I don't think headquarters would be too jarring but a lot would depend on the language used by your characters and the feel I get for the work. So, does your army have a special name in their country? Does the division using the headquarters have a special name? If either of them are true you could possibly alter that slightly and use it as the name of the headquarters. For example, at Rome the name of the headquarters of the Praetorian guard was castra praetoria, basically the Praetorian camp or barracks, and sometimes, most notably from the Bible in Jerusalem, they called military headquarters in other places by a similar name: the praetorium. Rather than being derived from Praetorian though, this might have come across from Greece where they used another similar word: praitorion. This could be used to mean either a permanent headquarters or the command tent when on campaign. If there's no inspiration to be found down that route however, you could just use the word barracks and give your commanders seperate rooms inside the complex.


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AstroStewart
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No, in my work, the soldiers don't have their own special name for the nation, nor does the division/army itself. Mostly, the place referred to as "headquarters" is just in reference to the location of their permanent base is within their own land, but even then it's only the base for this division, meaning everyone under the direct control of a certain general. While there exist other similar encampments across the land, this one referred to as the headquarters is also the one that is closest to the capitol, and has more importance to it than the others.


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KnightSix
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One thing you may be overlooking is a type of hierarchy of command - something we military types call the "Chain of Command."

This applies to the actual command of unit by its inherent personnel, as well as hierarchy of unit types from the smallest group of soldiers to the largest command.

Now, without a little more research I can't speak to Roman or Greek hierarchies of command, but I thought I'd just share something from current Army doctrines about unit hierarchies...

Some Army units actually have unit breakdowns beyond what I'll show here, and their tables of organization and equipment will vary according to their actual defined mission. This is typical U.S. Army terminology, by the way....

A squad is typically the smallest designated group, under the direction of a Squad Leader - a mid-level non-commissioned officer. (Some squads further break down into teams, etc.)

Four squads make up a platoon, typically under the supervision of a Platoon Sergeant (a more senior NCO) and a Platoon Leader (usually a low-ranking officer like a 2nd Lieutenant).

Four platoons make up a company, under the supervision of a First Sergeant and a Company Commander. The first sergeant is usually a senior NCO, and the Company Commander is a Captain. A company usually employs an Executive Officer as well, someone more senior to the Platoon Leaders, but not a Company Commander. Kind of a second in command.

Typically four companies make up a battalion.

Typically four battalions make up a brigade...

And it goes on and on, up to the Theater and Army levels. You can find more information on these hierarchies all over the web, but just defining an Army with a headquarters doesn't create a realistic approach to the employment of forces in the strategic defense (which is what I'm gathering is your Army's mission). Do a little digging and you'll find / create the structure and chain of command for your story.


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oliverhouse
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Depending on the time frame for your story, you might find useful a book I recently found in the discount rack at Borders: _Warfare in the Classical Age_ by the eponymously named John Warry. I like the fact that it's well-structured: it names its sources, goes through political issues, discusses tactics and such in relation to specific battles, etc.

That won't tell you what people did "in garrison" (which is what it's generally called nowadays when you're not fighting somewhere, and which I think would be an acceptable term for your story), but it might give you information about the kinds of things they would _discuss_ in garrison -- in other words, war stories.

Regards,
Oliver


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AstroStewart
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Actually, I am planning on taking military heirarchy into account. Looking online I found this site: http://www.easternct.edu/personal/faculty/pocock/ranks.htm
that, assuming it's accurate, shows a nice layout of the heirarchy of command from staff sergeant all the way up to general. I think the only major difference I decided to make in the military structure in my novel is all those different levels of general (brigadire general, lt. general, major general etc) and at least for now, refer to men in such positions simply as general and have all generals report directly to the Emperor of the land.

One question I have though, is do the numbers given on this site usually refer to actual battle / warfare? Or are they indicative of peacetime operations as well. In other words, in my novel (at the moment anyway) I have someone of general standing in charge of something in the regime of a colonel and a few captains, perhaps 5,000 men total. The idea being that with no large threat around, the men under his control are more fragmented than those numbers would indicate, spread out in the land policing towns and carrying out a large number of small jobs instead a few soldier-intensive jobs.

I suppose the real problem I have, is that only perhaps 5-6 officer level soldiers take any real part in my novel, so I thought it unwise to invent a hundred other characters to fill the void of colonels, lt. colonels, majors, captains, etc if they don't serve any purpose. But at the same time, making it sound like the headquarters run by this general only has a handful of officers smacks of unbelievability. So how do I make the military heirarchy sound realistic without bombarding the reader with a million different officers?

It is important that my MC be of enough importance in the ranks to be easily identified by random soldiers he encounters, yet low enough in rank that he usually only commands a few hundred men. Is this mindset/requirement alone setting myself into an unrealistic story? If there are hundreds of captains in the encampment, I doubt he would stand out, but having only a few captains under a general doesn't make sense either.

I don't know if any of that was a question or just me thinking out loud, but if anyone has more suggestions, the comments on this thread have been very helpful already and I welcome your response.


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Survivor
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Modern militaries are fundamentally different from ancient militaries.

Of course, this is full on fantasy, so you can get away with a lot. Still, what you're suggesting seems a trifle suspicious to me. As far as I can understand it, which I may not.


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oliverhouse
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I agree with Survivor. I don't think you can do anything but learn about the types of units that you're writing about and their command structures.

Are these phalanxes? Legions? E.g., the word "centurion" is an officer commanding 100 men (a "century"). Are they familiar with naval operations? (A lot of Roman naval battles were really land battles on boats. The Romans were good at fighting on land, and got devastated in pure naval battles. Once they started using grappling hooks to draw enemy boats to them, and then boarding them, they were in a much better position. A Roman soldier might be familiar with naval battles and boats.)

I'm rambling -- a parenthetical that's longer than the rest of the paragraph is a bad sign -- but I hope you see where I'm going with it. I'd read a lot for a while to get a better feel for what the men did in wartime; and that way you'll understand better how your characters should act in garrison.

Regards,
Oliver


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RCSHIELDS
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Once you collect the knowledge you need to fill in details you might try camping for a week in the wilderness with just a bedroll, tent, writing materials, bandaids, moleskin, shovel, TP (unless you really want to use leaves), and what food you can carry. Hike a half day away from you car, somewhere not within at least ten miles of any form of civilization. There's bound to be terrain here in the US that fits your story.

The hike, both ways, will teach you much about marching. The week's stay will teach you what you can't learn out of a book about living in the dirt like a soldier and why some soldiers discover they are born scroungers.

If you have one, take a machete, they simulate a gladius nicely, unless of course you have a sword to take with you. Machetes are also handy around the camp site. At the end of each hike find a dead branch about six inches thick and cut through it with the machete, that will give you an idea of what a fight at the end of a long march is like.


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AstroStewart
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Yet another area where I had made some assumptions (you know what they say about when you assume ) that I'm now looking back at with new eyes.

I have, in fact, been hiking before where you take all the food you eat and all the supplies you'll need on your own back (with some friends) and hike for 2 days or so and then camp for a few days or a week and then hike back, so the experience you're talking about makes perfect sense to me. I guess the thing I'm wondering is, (and of course this partially depends on how I set up my world) if the "guardians" of the land, ie the military/police are travelling along well established roads from point A to point B to go about stopping a revolt, or whatever their business is, would they actually need to carry all their supplies with them? There are towns along the way that could replenish supplies, and my understanding would be, in a technology-hindered world, towns would naturally pop up about a day's walk/march from each other on well established roads.

So while clearly at least some supplies would need to be carried (and perhaps mules / animals of some kind would be of use here?) I had assumed when I first wrote the first chapter of my novel that the company of soldiers, while certainly weary from the travel, wouldn't be nearly as exhausted as if they were, say, marching through enemy/unfamiliar territory. Does that assumption of mine just show how ignorant I am of military life in the pre-modern world?


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arriki
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Military strategy was very different before the invention of preserved food under Napoleon (wasn't it?). You see that in the Sharpe novels of Cornwell and in that book on Alexander's Logisitics which I mentioned earlier. That has got to be the best book around on pre-modern warfare supplies.

Armies used to be dreaded like the plague for descending on villages and commandeering food the villagers needed. They didn't have great stores of food. Enough to make it through the winter and here come a hundred hungry men seizing food and leaving the village with maybe not enough to make it through the winter.

That's one reason battle strategies included what season, whether close to the sea for resupply from home or fruitful places, all sort of contingencies were critical to the success of a campaign.

Remember during the Revolutionary War soldiers were quartered in people's homes. It was for access to the food as much as shelter.

What sorts of food could a soldier carry? Hard breads mostly. Dried meat. If lucky a bit of dried fruit. Sharpe put it very succinctly in his rant about the extra mules having to carry enough food for the mules as well as the tents they were supposed to be hauling and how little benefit they actually got for the output in additional food for mules and the muledrivers.


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Survivor
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Yeah...a lot of this discussion is demonstrating that you really need to get clear on what kind of military model you're using here. I tend to vote for a low ranking nobility/warrior caste model, because that involves the least complications and seems most probable for the kind of story you want to tell. But that's just a guess.

I hold to the caution about drawing too many comparisons between a modern military and an ancient military (even in a fantasy milieu). But there are some fun blogs about everyday life in, say, Afganistan that might serve your purposes admirably. Some are fairly open about living conditions and so forth, others are...more guarded in presenting information that could have tactical value.

quote:
On the plus side, the fashion ninja morale corps has provided us with a tv and a PS2, along with some various PS2 games! The only one I've played so far is Battlefield 2. Hopefully in real life war would be at least a little more organized and I would die less (but that empty helicopter was just screaming for me to jump in and pilot it!).

--Sam Chiu


Coming from someone who is--after all--technically not in an active warzone, that is just too funny. You don't have to be that funny. He has links to a couple of other blogs that are more in the realm of informative rather than amusing.


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pooka
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quote:
While I'm sure they don't just sit around twiddling their thumbs, I really don't have enough of a grasp on what day to day tasks they would be up to without a big bad enemy on/in their borders to fight.

I think it's pretty much like any job where about 70% of the people do as little as they can get away with without being fired.

Since this is fantasy, I'll tell you what I as a reader would be expecting. Some nobility/royal dudes who may have some wizardy types working for them. Some peasants who are enthralled by some kind of cause, and some mercenaries to spice things up. Are you going to have any armies of undead or bipedal monstery things? Are these bad guys or good guys?


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Gwalchmai
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quote:
It is important that my MC be of enough importance in the ranks to be easily identified by random soldiers he encounters, yet low enough in rank that he usually only commands a few hundred men. Is this mindset/requirement alone setting myself into an unrealistic story? If there are hundreds of captains in the encampment, I doubt he would stand out, but having only a few captains under a general doesn't make sense either.

If you're MC isn't one of the people who has a major bearing on the command side of your military organisation then then you can draw a parallel with the Roman army system for what you want from him, and if he is then it could certainly be adapted so I don't see why it can't be possible.

I'll give a quick breakdown of the Roman legion around the time of the late Republic/early Imperial era and then explain where the officers split in. Basically:

One Legion = ten cohorts.

Nine of these cohorts consisted of six centuries, each made up of 80 men, depite its name, thus giving a combined total of 480 men. The first cohort, however, consisted of five double-centuries thus giving it a total number of 800 men.

That's the unit divisions sorted so now to bring in the officers. The legion as a whole was commanded by one man, the consul or pro-consul or somebody else. Beneath him was one tribune who acted as his second in command, and third down the chain was the camp prefect. Then came the general staff of five other tribunes. The only other officers in the legion were all centurions, each one in charge of a century, of which there were 59 on the numbers above. That's quite a few officers. However, they were then ranked. The top ranking centurion in each cohort also had control over the whole cohort too, and since the first cohort was the highest ranking cohort, the centurion who had control over that cohort was basically the highest ranked officer after the command staff and he went by the rank of Primus Pilus. This was a pretty respected position to hold and as a consequence he would very likely have been known to the rest of the troops. Yes, he technically had control over the movements of the whole cohort of 800 men but he was also centurion over just 160 of them and the rest of the men in the cohort also had centurions of their own.

So, after that long winded explanation, yes, there is no reason why your MC can't be known to all the soldiers, be fairly important, but still only command a few hundred men. There's no real reason either why he couldn't be more important to the overall running of the army than a Roman Primus Pilus was either if you want him to be. Of course, this does only really work if you have fairly small armies but if the Romans ever doubled up or more on their legions the officers would still be the same and one Primus Pilus would no doubt have had more authority than the others and if he had served in the army long enough could quite possibly be recognisable to everybody still.

quote:
I guess the thing I'm wondering is, (and of course this partially depends on how I set up my world) if the "guardians" of the land, ie the military/police are travelling along well established roads from point A to point B to go about stopping a revolt, or whatever their business is, would they actually need to carry all their supplies with them? There are towns along the way that could replenish supplies, and my understanding would be, in a technology-hindered world, towns would naturally pop up about a day's walk/march from each other on well established roads.

Again, why not? It's your world, go with it. If you're looking for a precedent though, I can give you a Roman one again. During the Second Punic War when Hasdrubal crossed into Italy in 207 BC, Claudius Nero made a quick march north through Italy without taking any supplies, sending on horsemen ahead to ask people in the towns they would pass to bring provisions down to the roadside so they could pick it up in passing as they needed it.


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RCSHIELDS
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Past or present soldiers who are not kept busy invariably get into trouble. Earliest armies did very little to prevent the trouble, the Romans needed drilling to coordinate relief of front line fighters during a battle and so discovered that training promoted good relations with civilians that the armies depended on for food because during the day the soldiers were busy training and generally too tired in the evening to go out and cause problems.

Smaller groups of soldiers are no different for towns than any other travelers. Commanders would supply leaders with sufficient trade goods or currency to buy food and lodging for smaller groups, with the exception of small groups connected to larger armies that are on the move.

Logistics becomes a major problem for any group of soldiers that number higher than ten. Large armies on the march generally supplied towns in advance, or warned towns of up coming needs, not always but generally.

Modern and past military almost always want soldiers to carry several days worth of rations in case of long stretches of territory with no support, or if the villages are burned and the fields destroyed in advance of a large army. All of this is in the background of the story -- how big is the general army? How well supplied? Are the soldiers expected to forage? If so, are they to pay for supplies or appropriate them? What level of force is authorized for appropriation? Is the enemy burning villages and fields? Are the civilian cooperative or uncooperative? Do the civilians have a surplus of supplies? In the past every situation has occured, thus what your story needs is what ever situation you feel your characters find themselves in.

On you expiditions to the hinderland, did you carry an extra 30-50 lbs to represent the weapons and armor that some soldiers also carried?


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Survivor
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Nothing simulates carrying a weapon and protective gear like being conscious that you might encounter a life and death fight. And no, Battlefield 2 probably doesn't cut it
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