Hatrack River
Home   |   About Orson Scott Card   |   News & Reviews   |   OSC Library   |   Forums   |   Contact   |   Links
Research Area   |   Writing Lessons   |   Writers Workshops   |   OSC at SVU   |   Calendar   |   Store
E-mail this page
Hatrack River Writers Workshop Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Point of view?

   
Author Topic: Point of view?
discipuli
Member
Member # 3395

 - posted      Profile for discipuli   Email discipuli         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As a novice writer i'll like to ask a few questions :
Is it considered bad writing to change the POV in the same page or after a few paragraphs ?
When should certain POV's be used? what is your favourite and why?
Benefits of using one POV over another?

Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jeraliey
Member
Member # 2147

 - posted      Profile for Jeraliey   Email Jeraliey         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As to your first question, it really depends on what's going on in the page/paragraphs, and how long your story is. Keep in mind that POV shifts can be very jarring, so you should do as much as you possibly can to smooth them over in your writing.

Second question: You should use whatever POV best tells your story. I know that's kind of a useless answer, but perhaps some of the other folks here could explain it better than I could. (I'm thinking Christine could probably do a better job than I ever could.)

My favorites are 1st person limited because it feels the most personal to me, and 3rd person limited because it's the easiest way for me to stay close to the characters but still see things through a wider focus.

I'm going to defer again to more knowledgeable people for the last question.

Hope that helps at all!


Posts: 1041 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Spaceman
New Member
Member # 9240

 - posted      Profile for Spaceman           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here is my short take:

quote:
Is it considered bad writing to change the POV in the same page or after a few paragraphs ?

Almost certainly, unless you happen to be a grand master or have multiple Hugos onyour trophy shelf. I doubt you could justify it very often.

quote:
When should certain POV's be used?

Use the POV that works best for the story. As the author, you are the final authority of your work. That means you get to decide.

quote:
what is your favourite and why?

The one that fits the needs of the story and allows me to tell the story with the most impact. That's why it's important to practice in various forms. If you don't practice a certain POV, you ensure you will never be good at it, an you won't have the tools you need when you need them.

quote:
Benefits of using one POV over another?

Each has bonuses and penalties.

[This message has been edited by Spaceman (edited June 27, 2006).]


Posts: 2 | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Have you read OSC's CHARACTER AND VIEWPOINT?

Read it first, and if you still have questions then, let us know.


Posts: 8033 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kadri
Member
Member # 3402

 - posted      Profile for Kadri   Email Kadri         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you're writing a novel using 3rd person with more than one POV, a good rule is to change POV no more than once/chapter and to start a new chapter for each POV switch.

It's not an inviolable rule, but it's a good starting point.


Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pantros
Member
Member # 3237

 - posted      Profile for pantros   Email pantros         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rapid changes of PoV are sometime necessary to set up a suspenseful situation--one where the reader sees everything coming, but the characters we care about do not.

But, make sure to spend enough time in the PoV of the Main Characters so that we can immerse/empathize with the character.

An example of when not to rapidly change PoVs is introducing characters. I've seen it done, but rarely well.

The minimum break for a change of PoV is a section break, though using a chapter break is the one I'd recommend.


Posts: 370 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Elan
Member
Member # 2442

 - posted      Profile for Elan           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One of my favorite books is "Dune" by Frank Herbert. I recently re-read it, and was stunned to see Herbert had a regular practice of switching POV, sometimes within the same paragraph. I never noticed it before, nor did it seem particularly jarring to me. I also ran into the same thing with another of my favorite books, "Mists of Avalon" by Marion Zimmer Bradley. It makes me wonder at times how stringent the "one POV per scene" rule really is with publishers.
Posts: 2025 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pantros
Member
Member # 3237

 - posted      Profile for pantros   Email pantros         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The standards for new novelests today are more strict than they were in the time when those books were published, but they do show that if you write well enough, you can break the rules.
Posts: 370 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wbriggs
Member
Member # 2267

 - posted      Profile for wbriggs   Email wbriggs         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What Kathleen said. It's an easy read, and it's detailed, and I couldn't add a thing to it.
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, I disliked Herbert's specific habit of changing POV running the thoughts of his characters---all of them---in a single scene. I remember noticing it, and not liking it, years before I decided to become a writer or even knew what POV was. Probably as a direct result, I waited years before buying any other Dune books.
Posts: 8292 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
discipuli
Member
Member # 3395

 - posted      Profile for discipuli   Email discipuli         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thanks guys , i plan to open my novel with both a 3rd person and omniscient pov .. i also have another question.. the first chapter is like this :
Heated Dialogue 3-4 paragraphs
Explanation of setting , 8 paragraphs
More dialogue , action , ending ..

The heated dialogue could be better placed AFTER the setting , to help build up to a climax with the action.. but wanted to grab the reader from line one.. any advice?


Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2