"I've been thinking about joining Hatrack, but I've been put off by people using silly made-up names to hide their identities. Serious authors usually want all the name recognition they can get. If I recognized the name of someone from Hatrack on the bookstore shelf, I might be inclined to buy--saying, 1oh, neat! I know this author!' Conversely, if I recognize an author's name in Hatrack, I would be more apt to respect what they say, because I might have read a story or a novel by them, and might say, `hey, this person knows what they're talking about.'

"I'm still looking for an agent, but would I take any advice from someone with a name like `Dragon Princess' or `Last Survivor'? No way. I don't like not knowing who I'm dealing with. I don't have that feeling with SFFW [Science Fiction and Fantasy Workshop], although I know a few people did use pseudonyms. But I find this is like walking into a masquerade ball. There may even be friends and people I know here, but who can tell? I wouldn't know any of these funny-named people if I walked into them at a conference face-to-face.

"So what are these people hiding? What are they afraid of? Am I missing something? Is it something I should be afraid of, too? It gives me the impression that they are mostly wannabes, who think it is romantic to be `pseudononymous' and mysterious. If I'm wrong, why and what are they hiding?"

I once walked into a business meeting where one of the people had been assigned to do research on the meeting participants. He knew I was Catholic, liked typography and philosophy, had a lot of children, lived in New Jersey, etc. etc. etc. He had taken the information from my personal Web site and other forums I had been on. He didn't learn anything I wasn't willing for people to know, but it was a little creepy.

"Oliver House" is an inside joke, but anybody who would look for me under that name already knows all of my personal details anyway.

I don't hide my real name from anyone with whom I correspond directly.

I use a name that sounds real, but maybe on my birth certificate and in real life I'm Dragon Princess. No way to tell for sure except to get to know me. I've learned a lot of people's real names here over time, usually when they've critiqued the full version of my stories. I've also learned, over time, whose advice is sound and whose is not, and that has nothing to do with what name they used to register.

It's not my impression that most people are really hiding their identities.

I'd imagine that most of the colorful names here are a byproduct of life online. Namely, if your name is Bob Smith, chances are bobsmith@yahoo.com is long gone, so everyone's adopted a more unique screen name. My other email is bleuhawaii. So I do it too.

But, being a writer, who's also a marketing professional by day, I recognize that we all want our writing name to become our brand name. So, while Jamie might be a little ordinary, it's the name you'll find my work under. It's just easier.

PS: Andrew McGown for those of you looking for my books instore.

As for getting recognition, I figure that I'll get whatever recognition I need in other ways besides using my real name on forums--publishing several short stories before I try to publish a novel, for instance. After all, not every famous author out there posts their stuff on forums for critiques and they still do well.

Yet, even after I do get something published, I'll probably use a pseudonym as well (obviously not the one I'm using now). However, this is not because I don't want people to know my real name after I get published, this is because my real name hardly sounds like a good author's name. Believe me when I say that if you read my real name on a book cover, it would sound quite awkward. I've tried it. I might just use my first two initials and then my last name, but I know for sure I don't ever want to see my first name on a book cover. Again, this has nothing to do with wanting to be mysterious. It's more for the sake of having a name that sounds and looks good on a cover than anything.

Well, okay, on my *own* forum I'm 'Troy' but that's because the people there are family/close friends. And the formality of being T.L. Lance isn't necessary.

But I do think the anonymous emailer kind of has a point, and then again he/she kind of doesn't; I mean -- what difference does it make? I don't think it makes any real difference to any of us, or we wouldn't be here.

If it makes a difference to this person, they can stay away. Which is what it sounds like they're doing.

So... Meh.

I see I have contributed nothing to this discussion. And so I shall leave.

<grin>

Certainly there are security concerns to worry about. But I never felt that security outweighed the needs of my raging ego to be acknowledged. Even when I was sending out Internet Fan Fiction, I sent it all out under my own name---so if the powers-that-be wanted to find me and skin me alive for doing it, they could.

Sure, using your own name here and elsewhere is a risk, but I felt it a necessary one to take. A calculated risk. But I can appreciate the worries of others.

Keep in mind that it's a risk I take---maybe not one you should take. As near as I can tell from hanging out here almost a year now, I'm a good deal older than a lot of you. For all you know, I could be one of those people your parents warn you about. (I'm not---but you have no way to know whether I'm telling the truth or not.)

I don't know who most of you are or where you're from or where to contact you---and maybe that's a good thing.

(I do practice some shielding in my life. I try to get all my mail at my P. O. Box---I like to keep my physical address confidential, though I'm sure it could be traced through a number of online sources.

I've never had a problem with people using a pseudonym on the internet, because it is an environment where you do not have control over whom you interact with. That said, it makes me a little cranky when people have different handles on each board to which they belong--no offense to those of you who do--just because it's hard to keep straight. I do like to recognize people when I "see" them.

Survivor often denies that his real name sucks the very spark of life out of baby forest creatures, but it does. It's also important to note he did not name himself for a reality TV show. I'm less certain it wasn't the other way around.

Anyway, what makes using a pen name non-cowardly? I have one because I want to have the pretense of caring about the privacy of people I know. Maybe by the time this novel is done I will use "pooka" in the byline. Say, are there any names for which "pooka" would be a plausible toddler pronunciation?

P.S. Strangely, I knew this guy who wrote a 12 step recovery book but used his real name. I believe it was so that he didn't put suspicion on every widowered man of a certain age and family configuration in that region of Utah under suspicion of having his past. I wonder if that is something I should consider.

When my book comes out (soon) you can find it under Christine Amsden.

When I first started posting, I only used my first name because I wanted the name recognition, but I didn't want to give up my whole name -- internet security and all. Seeing as how there are a million Christine's out there, it didn't seem to matter much to use that as my handle.

But I have to disagree with one poster about something: when you sell a novel you don't shrug and say that lots of authors have done well without posting to forums. They started out the same way anyone does -- by networking. And that literally means telling everyone you know (on-line or in person) who you are and that you've sold a book. The era of the internet is still relatively new, so it's not surprising that few authors have used it to help sell books, but I'll take every copy I can sell.

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I use a name that sounds real, but maybe on my birth certificate and in real life I'm Dragon Princess.

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[Imagines the Zappa kids joining Hatrack...]

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Question: What, exactly, do you think someone is going to do with your rela name if you used it?

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Someone once threatened that he'd show my boss all of my postings on a particular forum. Even though my postings are all off-hours -- on that forum, which was email-based, even the ones that are sent during work hours were written when I was away from an Internet connection -- the suspicion that I wasn't pulling my weight could look pretty bad.

Also, as a senior marketing exec for a conservative software company, I do a lot of public speaking and have written articles for magazines. I don't want people who Google me to think this is "just" my day job -- especially if it's people in my own company who wouldn't be sympathetic. There are lots who would be, but why risk it?

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Do you use a fake name when you meet someone at the gym?

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No, and I don't over email, either -- just when I'm in a forum that's publicly accessible to billions of people.

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What COULD happen and what is LIKELY to happen now that you know I am Christine Amsden?

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Probably nothing. And once I actually get published, I'm unlikely to care whether everyone sees my real name, too -- in fact, as you pointed out, it'll be better for my writing career. Since I'm in the amateur phase, though, I'd rather remain anonymous.

I have used Jammrock since before the birth of the [public] internet, about 20 years now. It's a name given to by my sister and hold deep sentimental value. It also has a personal hidden meaning based on my Norwegian and Anglo-American heritage ("Jamm" comes from the scandinavian word jammer and "rock" is just plain old English). From my first email address to my newest email address and the URL of my website (Jammrock.com obviously), all my online identities are Jammrock. To me, I do not exist online in any other form, so using my real name never even occured to me.

My name here was a considered approach to remaining anonymous, which is important to me, and simultaneously indicating my own appraisal of my writing efforts. Anyone here with basic computer skills could track down my real identity, which is not so valuable as to be guarded at all costs. I'm simply a very private person. This trait is not one I'm willing to apologize for, though I understand the impulse that might make some wish to criticize. So, I didn't give my name. But I did try to give my fellow members a way to know what level of writer they are dealing with.

Your posted e-mail conveys exactly the reason I joined Hatrack. I'm not looking for appraisals from "serious authors". I'm looking for input from my potential audience, my potential readers.

It's my opinion that most sci-fi/fantasy readers are also storytellers. Whether they are "skilled" writers or not, they know what a good story is, and their opinions regarding my writing are valuable. I don't need to know their publishing history in order to take their advice under serious consideration. Everyone who has offered a comment regarding one of my fragments spoke from a perspective and insight I could not bring to my own writing, and this is not a gift to be taken lightly.

As far as publishing credits go: Many EXCELLENT writers do not seek publication, for the simple reason that they are excellent writers who do not need the gratification of seeing their work in print. (Also, perhaps, because not all of them are willing to trudge through the convoluted world of agents and editors.)

That's a little strange in the here and now, but that's the kind of people I like to surround myself with! The type that can protect me! I'm a bit of a wimp, so I like to feel secure. Using a handle online helps me feel that way. It gives me a sence of anonimity, (Probably butchered that word!)however false it may be!

And to the question, do I give a fake name to people I meet at the gym? No, I don't go to the gym, but I do go to Anime conventions, and you can bet your sweet bippy I'm not going to give anyone there my real name! Oh HECK NO!!! That's just asking for trouble!

So, I shall sign off by saying that I believe that people use fake names all the time, to express who they feel that they are, I myself go by my middle name, to honour the grandfather I was named after, but you don't all have to! If you feel safe/indifferent about sharing your real name, go for it! I think it's fun to see all the things that people see themselves as! *Shrug*

Rant over, thank you for reading!

*Bows*

E. Fern Shields

My name of record...I'm not sure what's so "sucky" about it. I use it (in several varients) as my email address, so anyone who cares to click my profile can find it. It is rather rude to use someone's real name rather than chosen handle/membername/whatever without permission, I can understand the reasons behind this though they don't affect me personally (since, as I've mentioned already, you can't find out my real name anyway). When someone uses my name of public record without my permission, I recognize it as a personal attack and an attempt to intimidate me. I like giving my enemies a chance to identify themselves as such, so it's useful to have a name of record that isn't too hard for anyone to find.

As for the membernames I choose for forums, they are chosen with an eye to what is appropriate to the culture of the forum and my relationship to it at the time I choose that membername. In that context, my name of record is almost never appropriate when I'm first joining a forum, though there have been cases where I used it.

The fundamental flaw is the notion that if someone isn't useing their "real" name they are trying to hide something. That simply isn't true. Okay, sometimes it is, but most of those people don't last long on this forum once they realize that we can find out their RL identities pretty easily without being given their names. Generally, when someone chooses a membername, it is something they want to advertise. Many people here choose names of main characters from their own works in progress, or of characters they particularly like in other literature. They might choose a membername they've carried over from another forum or forums. When we choose our names, we're providing additional information, over and above what anyone would know from our name of public record.

Let's phrase the question a little differently, shall we? Why do authors ever name their POV characters with made up names rather than the names of the authors? Not just in "autobiographical" fiction, but in any story? Why do I have a POV character named Karl or one named Teresa or John? Am I disclaiming responsibility for the story by refusing to give the main character my own name of record? Am I "hiding" anything by distancing myself from my characters by claiming that they aren't really me after all?

And even if/when I get published, it won't be the name I use on my books. That will be Libbie + my maiden last name, since it just sounds way cooler, and since I chose that last name as a kid when my mom allowed us to pick our last names post-divorce. I chose it specifically because it sounded like a good name for a writer, and that won't change just because I'm married now.

Also, though, I won't use Libbie Mistretta on my published works because my wedding photography business is run under that name. I don't want clients to search online for wedding photos and to find some site about my books. I'd get no business that way, and from what I understand, wedding photography is probably more lucrative than writing SF/F. Ha! I *also* use a separate name for my sculpture business, for the same reason - no confusion in Googling for potential customers. That one's my first name and Mistretta, though. Are you confused yet?

I guess my point is that even people with "normal" forum names may not be using their real names anyhow, so why worry about it? If one can't find the value in critiques that even come fron "anonymous" sources, then one isn't too good at taking critiques anyhow, as I see it. Instead of a fellow writer, couldn't "Dragon Princess" be a person who would potentially buy and read your book? No writer needs name verification for every reader on the planet, right? A reader's opinion is just as valid - or more valid, sometimes - than another writer's.

(Unless, of course, you want to pay off my student loans, in which case, go ahead!)

Like this:

I have used my real name in a few things, but I think the main reason I didn't choose it here is because it comes from a novel that is rather... controversial. Not a problem in RL because most folks aren't that well read, or that argumentative, and because RL names are known not to have been chosen by their bearers. But online...

This is kinda funny. Some people are accusatory, some are militarily defensive.

My stance: I use my real name, because theres no way to hide it anyway. If anyone wants it, they'll get it. I could have Survivor's if I wanted, but with my respect to this board I'm not going to crack it.

You see, a name doesn't hold the same kind of power people seem to think it does. Sure it sounds great to say names are powerful, but in the end, what's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet, no? A name isn't giving me access to your bank account. On the other hand, anything you do at all is tracable back to you, and that's extremely hard to escape. And even the best shields people can make, are already broken.

So, while a name won't get me into your bank account, a post on a forum will get me to your front door.

For that reason I call myself "wbriggs," although the name on my birth certificate is, ah, "Frodo4U@hotmail.com."

I chose my online name because I typically write fantasy. I used to play D&D many moons ago and Truhero was the sirname of a favorite character of mine. It is pretty stupid I know, but it kind of stuck with me. I am not ashamed of my real name or my online handle. I will wear my badge of geekdom proudly. I don't participate in those activities anymore, but I still remember those days fondly.

So don't call me "SILLY" for using a handle. I'd rather think of it as nostalgia. Every time I think of Truhero it makes me smile because of all the fun times I had back then. I have even toyed with the idea of making a patch for my motorcycle jacket, so I can show off my geek heritage to all the other bikers out there. I really don't think that I would catch too much flak about it. Who is going to tease a 6'6", 350 lb guy in full leathers that say "TRUHERO" on the back. Besides, if they did it with in earshot, there may be consequences...
I'd like to think it might even be impressive!

To use an old cliche', "you can't tell a book by its cover", or "the proof is on the pudding". Don't pre-judge someone by what is on the outside, listen to what they have to say, before making any judgements. If a product on the shelf says "PACKED WITH SUPER CHOCOLATEY GOODNESS", and I buy it, and it tastes like crap, then I can get upset or choose not to buy it again. Similarly, if someone with the name "Dragon Princess" gives out bad advice about your writing, you can choose to tell them so, or ignore them completely. That is the beautiful thing about the internet and its anonimity!

With all that said, I would like to question your friend, Kathleen. What and why are you hiding? You have the luxury of reading all of our profiles and posts, yet we know nothing of you. She/He could be a complete hack and we wouldn't know any different. I think the wannabe comment is over the top. Aren't we all wannabe's until we actually get that big publication contract? Does she/he have a publication pedigree so long that they can't stoop to this level? Well maybe Hatrack isn't their cup o' tea. I am "still looking for an agent", too. I am also still hopeful for that NFL contract and the Record deal from SONY (it could happen I'm only 30-somenting). Sheesh could it be spread on any thicker!

edit:
BTW, the name is Boyd, Mr. Ackerman if your nasty!

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Must be a lot of people in the Witness Protection Program.

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I'm quidscribis nearly everywhere I go on the internet. When I'm not, I use my real name.

I can understand why people use handles - I've been on the internet since before it was called the internet, and yeah, I've heard all the lectures about internet safety. Well, no, more likely that I've given them.

No, seriously, I find it odd that people don't realize how much you can find out about a person just by looking up their name online. Employers, universities, etc. are using the web more and more to get a better picture of how people "really act." There have even been many lawsuits over people using private information found on the internet to fire, refuse to hire, promote or accept someone to a position. And if you don't believe how much there is about you out there, look your name up here:

http://www.zabasearch.com/

...and here...

https://www.intelius.com/people-search.html?

(FYI - you can write to these services to have your information deleted, but it has to be written with your signature or they'll ignore you.)

And honestly, who cares what someone calls themselves if they give good, honest advice that can improve your writing, or is an excellent writer. I mean, come on, one of the best SciFi writers of all time is Phillip K. Dick, and if he can get away with having a bad name, so can Dragon Princess.

Grim

Do they? I have known one or two serious writers who thought name recognition sullied their art. Personally, I would rather people see my name on a bookshelf, not a forum.

"Conversely, if I recognize an author's name in Hatrack, I would be more apt to recognize what they have to say... and might say, 'hey, this person knows what they're talking about.'"

[I'm editing this to take out the undeserved snarkiness... suffice it to say, although I see the reasons, I don't agree with the idea that a published writer knows anything more about writing than an unpublished writer. The only thing a published writer knows that an unpublished writer may not is how to increase the odds of getting published.]

Keeley, known in real life as Cava Millicent.

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I used Spaceman on Bitnet. When I signed on, I noticed everyone else using handles, so I did too. Big deal. Anybody here who gets published in anything noteworthy generally reveals their real name anyway.
Like this:

- Rick Novy

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Silver3, aka Liloo, aka Aliette de Bodard

But on the other hand, I guess I don't care that much.

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Plus, I think my internet persona comes across as a tad neurotic, certainly more so than in real life.

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Good point. There's an openness that's easy to convey face-to-face that isn't evident online unless you spend too many words on it. I try pretty hard, but it's not the same. You may have noticed that I tend to put a lot of "you might consider"s and "maybe"s in my posts. I don't talk like that in real life.

But mostly it's a safety issue; I guess I have personally seen too many lives of people disrupted by stalkers. I've run into abusive people online as well. Just as I don't give out my home address and phone number to every pinhead I meet in person, I don't care to make my real name available to anyone who has no direct interest in me or my well-being.

I ran that Zabasearch thing on my name. It sends a bit of a chill down your spine to see your home address and phone number listed. Heck, I don't even have my address listed in the local phone book. As a single woman, I think that's a good safety precaution. Fortunately Zaba hasn't caught up with the fact that I recently moved. But I may follow up with the suggestion of contacting them to request my information be removed from their site.

In fact, I prefer to reduce access to my "real" identity as much as possible. I made a point of taking off my email address here, simply because I started getting a lot of spam directed at single Mormons... dating sites and such. Since this is the only strongly Mormon site I visit, I figured someone is culling email addresses off Hatrack. (I don't assume it's done with permission, but it's pretty easy for someone to cherry-pluck email addresses out of the New Person forum. Odd. The Mormon-dating spam stopped when I switched email addresses and removed my email address from my Hatrack profile.) (And please spare me from retorts that this is not a Mormon site... I know that. However, there ARE a high percentage of Mormons who frequent this site, and the Mormon-dating-spammers figured that out somehow as they were trolling for names.)

If I have direct dealings with people, I have no hesitation sharing my real name. It's done on a need-to-know basis. Anyone I critique for has been given my real name and my real email address.

Again, if I was planning on using my time at Hatrack for promotional purposes, I'd sign up as Rob Haines. First I've got to get published

Teph

Edit: Out of interest, I just Googled myself. Every Tephirax on the list is me, but only the eighth Rob Haines is me. It's a question of ego, I suppose.

Besids, I just think full name usernames are annoying to type in, and the alternative . . . NateNelson224 looks dumb. Other ppl's names, maybe not. I really have nothing to hide. If you look up Falken224 on the internet, I'd be willing to be that almost every reference is to me in some way. (except for the tire company ones)

That's just my online persona.

As for not wanting to take the advice of unknown people. Who can name 5 tennis players? What about golfers? Figure skaters? Gymnasts?

Might be tricky, but not too hard.

Now name their coaches.

Little bit harder, huh? So do you ignore the coaches? Probably not. But you've probably never heard of them, either, eh?

The fact is if you're not constantly evaluating people's advice, seeing if it works, if it makes sense, then you're stupid. That sounds harsh, but it's true. If you lack the motivation, energy, or ability to evaluate the information given to you based on the source, you're not really thinking for yourself. You're a mindless sheep.

Personally, I don't listen to OSC just because he's OSC. I listen to him because the advice I've taken from him makes sense, and helps me to write better. I didn't pay an arm and a leg to go to Literary Bootcamp because he was my favorite author. I did it because the advice he gave in his books had already helped me. He proved already that he knew how to teach.

Honestly, I've gotten some of the most idiotic comments from people on this forum. I've gotten some of the most insightful from some of those same people. That's the other part. Just because somebody doesn't know what they're talkig about doesn't make them wrong.

And the fact is . . . if many people say the same thing about your writing, no matter how stupid or smart they are . . . that's important. If ONE guy thinks you need to make a massive change, but everybody else thinks it's perfect, he's probably just not in your audience. Or he's an idiot.

So if the name is a problem . . . if you want important, published people? This is the wrong place for you, pal. As much as I like seeing OSC's comments, I don't really want this forum to become his personal house of instruction. I'd feel intimidated presenting my point of view, and it wouldn't be fun to be here. I half-suspect that's why he doesn't come around here much. It's not about him.

As far as being "mostly wannabes". Yeah, most of us are. But eventually some of the wannabes become the havebecomes and it's usually because they got some help on the way.

So, KDW, to your friend, I would say that if this forum isn't what he's looking for, so be it. But to make that judgment because he might have to look at a username of 1337n00b69 posting every so often . . . I think he's missing out in the long run.

But that's just me.