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Author Topic: Characterizing through dialogue
Christine
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What strategies do you use to make characters sound different from one another in their dialogue?
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pantros
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For major characters, Once I know the character well, I know their voice and I can talk in their voice -- well I can write in their voice.

For minor characters, I use stereotypical accents. I'd never use that for a major character, though.

Depending on the education, experience, age of a character,
I'll use different words. Less experienced people will use more general terms, more pronouns. To a normal street merchant, that heavy bladed curved sword is a sword. To the veteran soldier of many campaigns its a falchion.

But, the biggest differences are not really in the words of the dialogue, so much as in what they talk about and how they talk about what they know. - Its a fine balance when using dialog as expository (info dumping) Only one character usually knows the details and you don't want it to be a Q&A session.

Dialogue is as much the emotions associated with the character as it is the words. A strong character makes eye contact, a pushy but insecure person will push on your shoulder. A trusting friend or mentor will put their hand on your shoulder etc.

Sometimes it is the words. Some characters speak in matter of fact, only the facts as I know them tones. Sometimes people talk vaguely when they are unsure of their words or if they are unsure that the audience would understand (Managerspeak) Some speak in hypotheticals, some speak down to everyone they talk to.

To talk down to a person, use their name, pause then tell them what you need to say using one too many adverbs.

Okay, so back to the original question. The answer is to know your character as well as you can. Then you know what they talk about, why they talk and what words they use.

Avoid gimmicky accents or Yoda speak to establish a character voice. If you know your characters well enough, they will come out in the dialogue.


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Inkwell
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I tend to pay attention to their word usage first. This just happens to be something I notice in real life all the time...how different people choose their words (some carefully, others not). Subsequently, my uneducated or poorly-educated characters use one 'skill set' of words, while extremely- or over-educated characters use an entirely different set.

After that, I tend to focus on how the characters say the words...contractions, bas*ardized versions, slang, etc. This adds flesh to the bones, so to speak. Depending on the condition of the flesh, I can swing how a character relates to both other characters and (indirectly) the reader. Differing species/nationalities (is it strange how I put 'species' first?) also affect this, since someone trying to translate their native tongue into the story's English can also make a big difference in tonality.

Then comes pacing...energetic and lethargic characters differ in how fast they present information (hyper characters 'spew' data like a volcanic eruption, for example), and mood.

Mood varies greatly, depending on the situation at hand. This is more freeform than the rest, for me, though it is important to note that I don't plan very much of this (I have an idea of how I want some characters to come across, but absolutely no idea for others...subsequently, much of my dialogue is ad-libbed in this regard). Variation is a sort of side effect that I don't think about while I'm writing. I don't know if this 'automatic' dialogue differentiation is a good thing or a bad thing. It kinda just started happening over the years.

I dunno. That's how I do it, in a nutshell.


Inkwell
-----------------
"The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp."
-Anonymous

[This message has been edited by Inkwell (edited August 01, 2006).]


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Novice
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It's as much action as voice. People speak with gestures as well as words. Often when you have a group with similar backgrounds, they'll have similar accents and similar word-patterns, which is just about all you have to work with as far as "voice." (Unless you go to experience, but you can't show experience in just every statement they make.) But everyone has different gestures, and different degrees of expressiveness with facial and hand movements, even posture. Think about our conversations ... no conversation is conducted purely with voice, so no conversation is limited to dialogue.

A long page of purely back and forth dialogue is very hard to read. Take some time for description.


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Elan
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I have one character in my story who is highly educated. I have him use college level vocabulary. I have another character in the same story who is a teenager. I attempt to have her vocabulary reflect more simple phrasing.

I don't like it when an author uses affectations like dropped consonants, apostrophes, or forcing a cadence of speech up the reader's nose (ie: "Wall, y'all, ya know it ain't whut that thar houn' dawg knows, it be whut he smells....")

I DO like it when the characters use an interesting choice of vocabulary, or word arrangement:

"I'm feeling a little truthsome right now." (Mal, Firefly, Joss Whedon)

"It's too cursed bad the gods saw fit to give you naught but sisters." (Gerran, The Gold Falcoln, Katherine Kerr)

I'd give other examples but, dang it, I tend to loan out my books to people who never return them.


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JOHN
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Think about you’re characters. What’s their educational background? A college educated person would use bigger words than a high school drop out. What part of the country are they from? Northerners talk different than Southerners. What’s their moral background? Some people swear and some don’t. What’s their ethnic background? Black people talk different than white people in a lot of cases or they use different slang. What’s their age? Older people don’t use slang or use outdated slang or current slang incorrectly. Here’s the sorta tricks I like to do.

“I don’t know, it’s just a hard decision to make.”

“It’s just, like, a hard decision to make.”

“It’s just a hard decision to make, you know what I mean?” (“you know what I’m saying?” could work as well.)

“Shit, it’s just a hard decision to make.” (you can chose your expletive here depending on the character)

“It’s just a hard decision to make, man.” (“dude”, “bro”, “brah, etc (if you’re character’s black you get even get away with the “n-word” used as slang here))

I know a lot of people here aren’t terribly fond of his writings, but David Eddings does a really good job of giving his characters distinctive voices in dialogue. Especially in the books starring Sparhawk.

JOHN!

[This message has been edited by JOHN (edited August 01, 2006).]


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sholar
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My problem in dialogue comes when the character speaks wildly different from me. I really wanted a chracter to say something suggestive and crude from a guys point of view (I'm a woman). I rewrote that one line so many times because it just didn't feel natural. I knew what I wanted the meaning of the words to be, the class level I wanted it to show- everything except the actual words. Very frustrating.
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JOHN
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quote:
My problem in dialogue comes when the character speaks wildly different from me. I really wanted a chracter to say something suggestive and crude from a guys point of view (I'm a woman). I rewrote that one line so many times because it just didn't feel natural. I knew what I wanted the meaning of the words to be, the class level I wanted it to show- everything except the actual words. Very frustrating.

What were you trying to say and what did you finally come up with? I'm just curious. If you don't mind printing it... Being a crude guy myself I may be able to help.

I have found it difficult writing dialogue for woman. My buddy edits my WIP and will be like, "Ginger's talking like a man again." It's a pretty difficult thing to get right.

JOHN!


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Survivor
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Lots of good advice, but you can't follow it when you're trying to write.

Instead, use those strategies for listening to how different people speak.


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sholar
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I wanted the character to insult another character by saying something along the lines of the guy prefering the company of his horse over the company of a woman. I ended up doing a "well, you know" wink, wink, kinda blow off comment with the people around acting shocked and upset and just hoped the readers would fill in the implied insult.
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Corky
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Rita Mae Brown, author of the Sneaky Pie Brown mysteries, wrote a how-to-write book entitled STARTING FROM SCRATCH in which she recommended using multisyllabic words (aka "Latinate") for characters you want to indicate as educated and/or snobbish, and monosyllabic words (aka "Anglo-Saxon") for characters you want to indicate as uneducated or folksy or ignorant, etc.

So taking JOHN's examples, you could also have a character say

"It's too hard to choose." (one-syllable words)

"Can't decide." or "Too tough to decide." or "Tough decision." (combination)

"I find it a difficult decision to make."

"This decision is far to difficult to facilitate."

"My conclusion is that determining the correct approach on this matter is beyond my capabilities."

"Decision-making is outside of the realm of my expertise."

(This is kind of fun. )


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wbriggs
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I try to hear the characters speak. If it's not translated (from Martian, or whatever) into standard English, I hear dialect.

Connie Willis was so good at making some bit-part characters consistent that she didn't even have to tag them. I had no doubt who was saying, "We took every precaution. Gilchrist, I'm holding you personally responsible for what happened. Utterly unprofessional. ..."


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Tanglier
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I agree with the people in this thread, to an extent, but I think that all of you posters are missing the simple fact that the biggest way to differentiate characters-- and I'd argue that this is the only true way-- is not through their accents or word choice; it's through what they talk about.

A big-breasted secretary walks into a board room and says, "The memorandums were all delivered promptly at 10am."

Three different characters here:

"This company would be in the black if more workers obeyed orders as quickly as my Lucy does."

"Excuse me, Miss. Memorandums are not delivered in this world; memoranda are delivered."

"Did you see those tits!"

___________

Consistent ticks and mannerisms do not constitute character. I think people forget that because education in this society does not concern character as vigorously as it should. If you want your characters to be different, you have to make them different, from the ground up, that means differing metaphysics, senses of propriety and virtue, and different myths and narratives floating around in their head.

If you do this, then even if your characters all have the same vocabulary, they will fundamentally be and feel different. What I'm talking about is not a gimmick to make your character seem different, I'm talking about populating your stories with truly different characters.

[This message has been edited by Tanglier (edited August 02, 2006).]


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pantros
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quote:
I agree with the people in this thread, to an extent, but I think that all of you posters are missing the simple fact that the biggest way to differentiate characters-- and I'd argue that this is the only true way-- is not through their accents or word choice; it's through what they talk about.

Good Point, Wish I'd mentioned that in that very first response...wait - I did. Good thing people read everything before commenting on exactly everything.


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Silver3
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Ok, I think my characters all sound the same...
I'm a big fan of gestures, and I also try to pay attention to word choice and such, but that's really the hardest part for me, because I so seldom hear people speak English. That's the big trouble with being overseas...

Maybe I should move to the US


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Garp
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If you need to distinguish characters, then listen to Pantros and Tanglier.

If you need to spice up your dialogue, then read the chapter on dialogue in HOW TO WRITE A DAMN GOOD NOVEL.


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tchernabyelo
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It very much depends how much dialogue you've got. Sometimes it's all too easy to "over-egg the pudding" by giving someone a particular speech quirk or style that ends up being all you ever notice about that individual - an instance of Damon Runyon's "funny hat" characterisation.

I certainly try and use different cadences for different people but a lot of it will come down to culture/class, so while it may be easily possible to tell a noble from a peasant, it would be much harder to distinguish two peasants.

Ultimately, I suspect it's more important for the dialogue to feel natural. And be aware that dialogue that works on the page may not work out loud, and vice versa. Printed dialogue tends to be more complete, spoken dialogue tends to be more fragmentary. "Realistic" spoken dialogue can be hard to read.

And yes, the point that a lot of character can be portrayed just by showing what someone chooses to remark on is well made. Although ambiguities exist. As a birdwatcher, if I say "Hey, look at those tits!", I'm likely to be pointing towards a bird table...


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Christine
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Someone linked me to the following article in my search for ways to improve my dialogue:

http://www.sfwriter.com/ow08.htm

I hat eit! I don't know anyonewho talks like his example, except on TV. I also know very few people who curse often and I don't spend much time with them.


<sigh>

I'm beginning to wonder if one potential problem with dialogue is that everyone makes ASSUMPTIONS basd on the people and situations they know. You'll never write dialogue that appeals to everyone because it is certain that a great many people just don't talk that way.

I'm not now nor have i ever been convinced that dialogue should be realistic. One person's reality is not another's, for one thing. For another, when you read all those goin's and y'knows just get annoying -- at least to me. Then again, to some people they are essential.

Maybe this is just a case of "You can't pleas everyone."


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pantros
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There was some good advice in that link, Christine.

Of course sifting through the tripe, which most of the advice was, to figure out which advice was good takes far more work than it's worth.


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Garp
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Christine,

Ture, you can't please everybody, and there's no reason to make dialogue sound "realistic" -- whatever that means. So stick to your own rules about dialogue and don't let anyone sway you -- unless it's your editor.

Just remember that dialogue isn't speech, and that's the mistake so many people make. It be very realistic, or it can that lusty bravado you find in the best crime and detective fiction.


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Garp
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sorry about that

[This message has been edited by Garp (edited August 03, 2006).]


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Elan
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John and Corky gave several examples along the line of:

“I don’t know, it’s just a hard decision to make.”

“It’s just, like, a hard decision to make, man.”

In my opinion, they both missed an opportunity to highlight the way to make vocabulary reflect differences in character traits. Using the word "decision" several different ways doesn't make the sentence sound like someone different is talking. It's a multi-syllable two-bit college word, and even throwing the word "man" in there doesn't give your dialog a different edge.

Here are some other ways I can think of to reflect the same idea of a difficult decision:

"I dunno. I can't make up my mind."

"Six of one, half dozen of the other."

"The path is hard, and the way uncertain."

"How the freaking hell am I supposed to know what to do?"

It's not about saying the same word(s) over and over, arranged in a different way. It's about finding WAYS to say it that are outside your normal pattern of speech, and becoming creative with your choice of vocabulary. IMHO.


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JOHN
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Good call, Elan!
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hoptoad
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Regarding the word decision Elan said:

quote:

It's a multi-syllable two-bit college word...

That is a bizarre statement. IMHO. (Sorry I meant: IMO as all my opinions are honest. )

What does the quoted statement mean?

When you say that dialogue can reveal character traits, is that an example?
.
.
.
.
.
..

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited August 04, 2006).]


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Elan
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Heh... sorry... the phrase "two-bit" in America is a left-over phrase my folks used to use. A quarter (twenty-five cents) used to be called "two bits." The phrase "two bits" as I used it is an archaic reference (commonly used in the States in the 1930's - 1950's) to something that costs a lot, or in this case, something that is overpriced. (Anyone recognize the tune "Shave and A Haircut, Two Bits?") Eaaaghh... I'm showing my age.

By saying "multi-syllable college word" I'm referring to the Fog Index, or what is more commonly referred to as the Flesch-Kincaid index (do a grammar check in Microsoft Word). The more syllables in a word, the higher the reader's education needs to be to assure comprehension.

Does that help? Sorry for the confusion.


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hoptoad
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Not really.
I was wondering what the statement meant, not the words or the phrases.
Would you mind restating it?

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Elan
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I meant that in my opinion, the use of the same word (decision) in various different ways does not give the dialog a different sound. The word "decision" sounds, to me, like something that would come out of the mouth of a person who is perhaps more formally educated. If a person was trying to write dialog for a street urchin, say, or a slacker, changing the sentence structure around or adding the word "man" into it won't make it sound like a different voice.

I suggested alternatives that do not use the word "decision" but still maintaining the same idea, and sound like a different voice.

I hope this answers your question now? If not, I guess I have to say that I really don't understand what it is that you don't understand. I'm not sure further explanation would be worth a whole lot more effort. It was merely an example...


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hoptoad
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Yes, that explains it. Thanks.
I wasn't deliberately being thick.

I agree. I think that good dialogue starts with understanding the characters, like you said.

Edit:BTW Interesting sidenote, over here "two-bit" means something of little value or consequence.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited August 05, 2006).]


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wetwilly
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Over on the American side of the ocean, I've only ever heard "two-bit" used to mean worthless. The other meaning is a new one on me.
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Spaceman
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quote:
The more syllables in a word, the higher the reader's education needs to be to assure comprehension.

Huh? what? Me no get.


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Corky
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But I didn't use "decision" in every example I came up with.

I offered eight possibilities and only half of them had the word "decision" in them.


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Survivor
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"Decision" isn't a "collage word". But it does imply some kind of professional outlook.
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