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Author Topic: What does the term "Historical" mean to YOU?
Elan
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I just got done reading a romance story that won "Historical Romance" book of the year. (Give me a break; I've been sick and I wanted the mindless pap of a bodice ripper, OK?)

Anyhow, I bought this stupid book because I am contemplating writing a book of historical fiction, and was curious about the technique used by a winning novelist in the category of "historical."

Imagine my surprise that the ONLY historical element to the book ("The Smoke Thief" by Shana Abe) was that the author made no pretense of including anything remotely historical in it, nor bothered to go to the trouble of world-building a fantasy world. The book was set in London of "the real world" but the characters lived in a "secret society." The book was pure fantasy romance, and not a shred of real history in it, other than details such as in the 1700's people rode horses, and England has a town called London.

While the book sufficed for entertaining me while I was too sick to do anything else, it got me wondering: What elements does a novel need to have to be considered "historical"? How important does accuracy in research need to be? At what point does the term "historical" need to be changed to "alternative history" or somesuch?

It makes me shake my head that this book would even have been considered for a category of "historical." So now I'm wondering what the boundaries for that category really are?

Anyone have ideas?

[This message has been edited by Elan (edited October 18, 2006).]


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Christine
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Alas, I feel your pain. In MY opinion (and I'm right!), historical works need to be firmly grounded in reality. Even works of fiction that take place in historical times need to incorporate heavy amounts of reality -- culture, politics, attitudes, world events, etc.

But whatever SHOULD happen, it has long been clear to me that this is not what is required to get historical fiction published. I wish I knew what that took -- maybe an "in" in the publishing industry?

Also, IMHO, alternative history should contain AT LEAST as much research and knowledge as history/historical fiction. Alternative history, done well, should be even harder to write because not only do you know what DID happen, you have to use that to extrapolate what WOULD HAVE HAPPENED if X had been throwin into the mix.

But once again, that does not necessarily seem to be the case in the real world.

Oh well, a girl can dream...


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rstegman
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Back in the days of Prodigy Classic (pre 2000), I was involved in a historical writing group, and most of them were romance writers. They did extensive research to get the facts right.
Their books, when they finally got published, were fantastic, and I don't even like romances.
With science fiction, I can look at the blurbs in the book and know whether I will like the book. With romances, they told me nothing. I won't read a romance unless I have talked to the author, either in person or on line. I then have a reason to read the book.

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Robert Nowall
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Pretty much anything not in the here-and-now, but only following strictly along the negative end of the "X-axis" (the past), as opposed to the positive end (the future), or parts off the negative end (alternate histories), or along the "Y-axis" (fantasy in the present day), or the "Z-axis" (fantasy in places that never were). Probably more dimensions are involved, but my math isn't up to it.

Research is a necessity in any historical or alternate historical work. Right now I'm trying to write something set ostensibly in 1947...fifty thousand words in, but I haven't done much research and have only avoided putting things I know didn't exist then (computers, pushbutton phones). But I'm at a loss for other details (how, for instance, would a home hair-dyeing kit be packaged, or did such things even exist then?) I plan to track such things down---eventually---but the novel has unfolded so quickly I haven't had time.


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CoriSCapnSkip
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In what category would some of Sid Fleischman's books fit? http://www.sidfleischman.com/booklist.html "The Whipping Boy" is particularly problematic, as it names no specific time and place in such a way as to distinguish it as historical, yet doesn't have such elements as talking animals or anything distinguishing it as fantasy, either.
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rstegman
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Robert,

Ask model railroad enthusiasts. Model railroading tends to be a historical hobby. People will pick a time period and then research the period heavily to make sure everything is accurate on their model railroads. They have access to billboard images, types of cars, types of signs, products, railroad cars, autos, trucks, all that.
I personally have been of the kind that if it stayed on the tracks, it was good enough.

Atlas is a manufacturer for model railroad equipment. they have a forum on their site www.atlasrr.com
You might go to the forum at http://forum.atlasrr.com/ and ask a few questions, and they might be able to point you to where to get more information. For lack of a place to start, try the HO Scale Model Railroad Forum there.
Good luck.


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Robert Nowall
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CoriSCapnSkip: I'm not familiar with Sid Fleischman's work...perhaps another dimension would be required to describe it.

I suppose I could make an anchor assumption along these lines: In the absence of evidence to the contrary, the story can be assumed to be set in the here-and-now.

There's another dimension in play: the here-and-now itself is moving. A story written in the here-and-now of 1947 would be different from a story written today but set in 1947. (I read an analysis of A. E. VanVogt's "Slan"---a classic SF novel---which reveals that, whatever date it was intended to be set in, the details in the story reveal the world it inhabits is that of the time it was written.)

*****

rstegman: I'm intrigued...I'll make a note to check the sites out.


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tchernabyelo
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I would guess there's a huge spectrum of "historical" fiction (particulary "historical romance" fiction) that's going to veer from the immaculately researched (e.g. Dorothy Dunnett) to the "I just fancied setting it in 1700", as per your apparent example.

Ultimately, there is a paradox at the heart of any work of "historical fiction". history is about fact; fiction is not. Yes, you can reasearch all you ilke, and put in as much or as little of that research as you choose; but arguably all "historical fiction" is alternate history, because you're making up things, people, events, etc. that did not exist.

And I suspect that, no matter how hard you research, there will always be the risk of coming up against a reader who knows that one detail you missed. Occupational hazard.

The joy of writing fantasy is that no-one can ever argue whether or not you're "wrong". They may say your world doesn't make sense, but they can't actually say you're wrong.

This is why, though I borrow historical detail to make things sound more convincing/authentic, virtually all my fantasy is set in imaginary worlds - even the stuff that is so bereft of normal "fantasy" elements (magic and mythical beasts) that it is historical fiction in all but name.


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Leigh
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"Historical" to me is a story or narrative that has relevant setting and such, like when Captain James Cook sailed to Australia in 1788 and landed at Botany Bay, (Forgot the stupid history ), soon colonising Sydney. I would like to read a narrative that has well researched material in it. It may not have to be from Captain Cooks POV, hell, none of us know what the man was like, but maybe a POV from a cabin boy or convict set to be set free once landed.

Just got an idea, but too lazy to do the required research at the moment Research and relevant events are the key fixtures to a "Historical Romances/Mystery" or whatever.


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Grimslade
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A Historical novel with bad history is like hard SciFi with bad science; it brings the reader out of the story.
Do the research, it will pay off. Part of the attraction to historical fiction for history buffs is finding that one little nitpick. It's like an easter egg hunt. Minor fact problems are expected. Glaring inaccuracies are not. It makes an author seem lazy.

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J
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If you're going to call it historical fiction, you better have everything important (technology, government, transportation, agriculture, social custom, economy, dress, major events, political geography) correct. Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series is a great example of how to do it right.
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arriki
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So,s Mary Renault's novels set in ancient Greece. You are really there.
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